Super Zero Plate for zeroing XYZ in 1 shot

[mjindustry]

I know Morris Dovey has had his Super Zero mentioned on the forum here, that's where I learned about it. However, I think the threads are dated/archived so I wanted to make a note here for anyone looking for an innovative and versatile zeroing solution, you gotta check it out.

For complete details and ordering go here...
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SuperZero/


3376


3377

I have been using the Super Zero for about a week and it works great. I have C1 for zeroing XYZ to the corner, then C2 for the standard Z-zero routine in case I just need to zero z. I changed the setting in "shopbot setup" to .5" for the Super Zero plate thickness. It all works perfect.

Morris is a great guy and if you happen to have an hour or so, start clicking around his website for some great reading about other things as well. He is big into developing Solar Heating solutions for your shop or home.

[khaos]

Zoinks. $250.00

It must be really good.

[mjindustry]

Hey there Joe, we don't call it "Super" for nuttin!


Seriously though here...It's the exact same price to replace your z-zero plate and x,y proximity switch from Shopbot as it is to buy a Super Zero. This was perfect for me because my bot didn't come with an x,y zeroing solution. I liked the look of the Super Zero, so's I went for it and I'm very happy that I did.

[CajunCNC]

Could you acomplish the same thing with a 1-2-3 Block & an electrical connection?

[mrdovey]

Joe...

I'll guess that you missed the original thread where I explained the motivation for offering the SuperZero to fellow 'Botters and where I asked the group what they thought would be reasonable pricing. This price does not exceed their lowest suggestion.

The SuperZero was offered to fund a project to develop a directly solar-powered (non-electric) pump that could be used for irrigation and for village water supplies. There's a bit of the rationale at

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Journey.html

and project photos at

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/

Nearly everything pictured was paid for with the proceeds from SuperZero sales.

Last time I checked, the going price for scrap aluminum was under $2/lb - and you can probably machine one of your own on your 'Bot - or you can hold off until Wal-Mart offers a Chinese version for $1.95

Steve...

You can if you're willing to give up the "window" with the recess that allows insertion of a reticule for digitization (the software provided with the SuperZero supports this), if you're willing to do without the convenience of the fence(s), and if you're willing to run your bits into a steel block.

The topology used allows zeroing all three axes without ever moving the probe/bit from the block's "airspace" - which is both safer and more convenient - and you can't do this with a solid block.

The banana plug connection was chosen because I have other timesavers that also use the INPUT-1 circuitry and I planned to offer those to forum members, but with the almost immediate advent of a cheap knock-off offered by a Wisconsin 'Botter, I decided that I was done doing pro bono development work for folks who'd already demonstrated they could afford to spend $15-20K on a CNC router.

Jason sent me an e-mail to let me know that he'd been happy enough with his SuperZero to post a "plug" to the forum - and I'm posting today because I was absolutely certain that there'd be at least a few folks who'd say what they could to spoil his satisfaction.

As usual, I've probably said more than I should.

...Morris

[khaos]

Morris, please don't get me wrong. I AM a capitalist, sell it for whatever you can get for it. Obviously, its more than a chunk of aluminum with some detachable rails and a hole in it.

I think the value of the tool is not easily or visually recognized in the pictures or on the site. At least in my very cursory glance, I didn't.

Constructively, here is what was swimming in my head when I went to the site:
Wow, that looks cool.
Doesn't look flimsy!
Whats the hole for?
What are the rails for?
How does it work?
How will that benefit me?

After leaving the site the only answer I had was about the rails... That could be my own mental limitation.

I would love a vid to see it in action.

Also, after Jason said it comes with proxy switches I was totally cool with the price.

I hope this clears the air.
Joe

[CajunCNC]

Thanks for the reply . . . My question was based on what I "assumed" you are doing with the tool.

I agree with the other poster that a detailed description would be nice from a marketing stand point as well as education for a non-cnc person like myself. You have to remember, lurkers like myself looking to purchase a ShopBot are just as curious as those who have been running CNC for years. By the way, your product looks very well made.

Thanks
Steve

[mjindustry]

Morris,

I don't believe that there is anything that could be said to kill my buzz that I get from using the Super Zero. My shopbot loves that thing and so do I!


Glad to hear you were able to make a bit of the capitol for your solar projects from Super Zero sales. Your sincerity comes across as 100% genuine to me. It seems like your work in the solar technology is not to get rich, but to make life better for other people and that any profit would be a byproduct of your hard work. The same seems true for your work on the Super Zero fixture.

[mrdovey]

Steve...

All it does is locate a reference corner (or point if you've made a reticule) on a workpiece to within one step (the limit of measurement on a stepper-driven CNC router) and either return the (x,y,z) coordinates of that point or make that point the new origin for subsequent machine operations.

All of this can be done without a SuperZero, of course, and the primary advantage of using it is maximum accuracy (within 1 step on all three axes) in minimum time (less than 60 seconds).

There's nothing magical or ad-tech to grasp, but it saves me about an hour a day of screwing around with other methods. I figure that if 'Bot/operator time are worth $50/hour, the SuperZero pays for itself in a single 5-day week.

The interesting question is whether most 'Botters can (or would choose to) produce their own debugged and tested version of the hardware and software in less than 5 hours. If not, then the $250 price tag might actually present a reasonable savings.


...Morris

[CajunCNC]

Hello Morris . . . .

Beyond your knowledge on this subject being 10 feet over my head . . .Is there a metalic crosshair at the center of the opening? I probably need to read the ShopBot instruction page for zeroing.

But trust me, you are on my shopping list. . . I'm shooting for mid-summer to acquire a ShopBot . . . . Now don't do like a lot of niche inventors and stop building these two months from now . . . :-)

Thanks
Steve

[mrdovey]

Steve...

There isn't a crosshair. The bottom of the large hole is counterbored (stepped) to allow positioning a plastic reticule disk. To ensure accuracy a blank disk should be stuck in place with a tiny amount of something like silicone at three points and only then marked with something like a V-bit.

The software is set up to allow normal use with a reticule in place.

One other thing about the software - it's set up to auto-detect inch/mm operating mode, so if you have a project with metric dimensioning, the SuperZero shouldn't present any problems.

As for supply, no worry - I have about 90 of 'em on the shelf, so there's no danger of a shortage.

...Morris

[jporter]

Well, Morris, you only have 89 of them now, because I just ordered one. I saw this earlier in a former post and thought it was a good idea then. Based on Jason's experience, I just have to have one. So far, I have bought several things for my machine (BT 32) based on forum members recommendations and, so far, with good results. It is a problem trying to zero everything to a sometimes critical starting point and this looks like it will work well. I look forward to using it. Thanks, joe

[mrdovey]

Joe...

Thank you (I just finished your Priority Mail label)! I'll have it on its way tomorrow.

I think you'll be pleased. This all came about because some of the parts of my solar panels need to be machined on both sides and it's really important that the two sides be in 'perfect' registration with each other. It's saved me a lot of time and aggravation, and I hope you have that same experience.

...Morris

[jerry_stanek]

Morris tomorrow is a holiday so save yourself the trip to find out the post office is closed.

[mjindustry]

The Super Zero continues to impress here. I cut out 14 elks from the program aspire purchased from 3dvectorart. I used 5 pieces of scrap sign foam placed sporadically throughout my table and each scrap required 3 bit changes so the Super zero was crucial for each of the 5 pieces...and all of the bit changes. I could not have done the job without it. Can't say enough good things about the super zero...

[mrdovey]

Jason...

I think I'm gonna have to put you on the payroll.


...Morris

[mrdovey]

Steven...

I've updated the web page to add a bit of the "detailed information" you suggested. Like most "geeks", I'm a terrible salesman. Thanks for your suggestions!

All...

And to follow up on the (off-topic) purpose of selling the SuperZero: I'm happy to say that my (our?) R&D has gotten attention in (at last count) 68 countries around the world and has encouraged at least a few adventurous folks to build their own fluidyne engines. On the 7th I received a photo of a home-built Pakistani engine (good news from Islamabad!), and on the 16th received a video of that engine operating for the first time. So far, I'm not aware of anyone else running one under solar power - but that'll follow. If interested, you can see the photo and download the short video at

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/Elsewhere/

...Morris

[jseiler]

Morris,

I read more of your website and realized that I had looked around there more than once and had never said, "thanks" for maintaining this information and making it available.

so, um, Many thanks!

John

[mrdovey]

John...

Thank you - it's difficult to know if a web page is worth putting together and maintaining without feedback. I usually figure that, with an e-mail link on every page, if it's not worth anyone's time to even criticize, then it's not worth keeping around.

The "Projects" stuff is there to encourage folks to try building their ideas, to think "outside the box" and, in a few cases, to think beyond boxes altogether.

I'm glad you found something interesting.


...Morris

[hespj]

I have to say that when Morris first introduced this item several people understood it immediately. Not me :-( I had to ask Morris point blank what it could do for me.

Glad you're still selling them Morris, I had the impression you'd given up in despair. I find it depressing that in a small, cooperative community like this somebody would steal the design....

Keep up the good work,

John

[mrdovey]

John...

It was frustrating for a while, but I learned from the experience and moved on. The only difference has been that I haven't wasted as much of my time trying to solve problems I don't experience nor sharing solutions to problems that other folks probably don't have.

I have been intrigued by the number of people who've independently invented these things since I first shared photos - and it'll interesting to see how long it takes for them to produce the next pair of time-savers that grew out of the same basic concept.


...Morris

[jporter]

Morris, I am missing something. Remember, I am new to this whole concept of computers in general and CNC in particular. I have one of your zero plates with all of the attachments. I have loaded the software in my computer, and read the instructions. What exactly is this telling me? I have two .25" slots cut in my spoilboard at right angles to each other. I put .25" hardboard strips in these slots to register my workpiece in that corner. Lets say that I want to put a piece of material in that corner and I use the Super zero plate to establish my X and Y 0.0 position. How do I account for the diameter of the cutting bit? That is, will the bitstart cutting at the edge of the material or will the cutting path be at the center of the bit? You included several rods to put in my collett, does this mean I should use the dia. rod equal to the cutter bit or is this just a convenience to fit which ever collett I my have installed at that time? If I change bit dia's do I have to re-zero? I realize that if my rough material is much larger than my finished piece, the actual cutting path is not much concern, but sometime I need every bit of width or height to get the finished piece. As an example, I just zero'ed the .25 rod and worked fine. Then I replaced the rod with a .125" bit. I lowered the bit to the corner of the workpiece and it just barely brushed the corner. If I replaced the .125 bit with a .25 bit, then it would cut into the corner? Remember, I used the .25 rod to zero, not the .125 rod. This is confusing to me. I know this is confusing to you also, but if you can cipher this out, please try to help me. Thanks, joe

[mrdovey]

Joe...

The bit/spindle location - and tool paths - always refer to the center of the bit.

The different sizes (1/8", 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2") of probe rods are an attempt to allow using one of them with whatever size collet is already set up. I've found that it's possible to zero with a straight (not a molding profile) bit, so the probes are really just a convenience feature.

PartWizard applies tool diameter offsets for you (after you tell it about the tool geometry and which tool you intend to use) to produce the (hopefully) desired tool path.

If you're hand-coding your part program (what I do almost all the time), then you need to know that move and jog commands require that you apply this offset yourself. Other commands, notably the arc-cutting commands, are designed to apply an appropriate offset based on the tool diameter you previously set with the VC command. The ShopBot Command Reference is your friend here.

If your workpiece corner is at (0,0) and you move the spindle/bit to (0,0) and plunge, then you should always take a quarter-circle "bite" off the corner of the workpiece - and this is independent of what you zeroed with and what you cut with.

If I'm not making sense to you, let me know where I stopped making sense and I'll try again.


...Morris

[jporter]

Perfect sense! Thanks, Morris. Your replies are very clear and understandable. Also thanks for the quick response. I tried to reply to you earlier today, but my message wouldn't go through. Since then I went back downstairs and did just what I was talking about, that is, make a cut at the very edge of the piece. (A pocket cut all the way around a panel to make a rabbett to make a frame and panel door). It worked fine. Don't worry about the hand coding, that is way off in the future. My knowlege level concerning computer programs is about at the 4 year old stage. Unfortunately, I was 4 years old 58 years ago. But, as long as I can keep making progress, I am happy. Thanks again, joe

[mrdovey]

Joe...

Heh - don't let it buffalo you. I was older than you are now when I got my Bot, and I guarantee that this stuff isn't as difficult to learn as we all try to make it when we're starting.

When I got my Bot I bought a handful of 1/4" carbide end mills and a couple of sheets of 3/4" MDF to play with. I'll suggest that as a good way to get started and gain a good feel for how things play without having to worry about screwing up something you care about...

...and never (never, NEVER) be afraid to try out your ideas on a piece of scrap (if you only have small scraps, then switch to a smaller bit and scale your project down to fit the scrap). You'll build confidence in a hurry.

...Morris

[jerry_stanek]

Morris, please don't get me wrong. I AM a capitalist, sell it for whatever you can get for it. Obviously, its more than a chunk of aluminum with some detachable rails and a hole in it.

I think the value of the tool is not easily or visually recognized in the pictures or on the site. At least in my very cursory glance, I didn't.

Constructively, here is what was swimming in my head when I went to the site:
Wow, that looks cool.
Doesn't look flimsy!
Whats the hole for?
What are the rails for?
How does it work?
How will that benefit me?

After leaving the site the only answer I had was about the rails... That could be my own mental limitation.

I would love a vid to see it in action.

Also, after Jason said it comes with proxy switches I was totally cool with the price.

I hope this clears the air.
Joe

Actually that is all it is I made my own out of a piece of .75 plexi and a .75 copper cap.

[wberminio]

Morris
I've been using your super zero for years!
Great product /saves a lot of time and works every time!
Thanks again for a great product
Erminio