Trying to drum up some business in the Chinese community

[Burkhardt]

So far I have been doing the CNC stuff as a hobby (with the minor exception of selling my dovetail software) but I am kind of running out of ideas for things to keep or to give away for friends so I am wondering if some of the stuff I do is good enough to sell. Maybe not make a huge profit but pay for the materials and bits and some of my time. Having a full time day job won't leave me much of the latter, anyway.

I live in the San Gabriel Valley near L.A. with a very large Asian population and was wondering if I could do some targeted custom carving that I don't really see here. Not so much large outdoor signs but more decorative indoor stuff. Does that makes sense? Today I carved a kind of wooden business card (well, it is 12" x 24", see below) that I want to use as show-and tell sample for local sign shops that do the usual vinyl/acrylic signs. Maybe they can get me some work on commission.

Any opinion if that is promising? Or am I just wasting my time? To make any sense of it I would probably have to charge $150-200 for a sign like the sample below (45 minutes design, $20 material, about 1 hour unattended machine time, 30 min finish) and I have no idea if that is realistic.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-87Nr0QVy9FA/UtxgV7DE77I/AAAAAAAAEis/DIbRaUKwHCw/w1597-h780-no/DSC02154.JPG

Since there was another post lately about the carving properties of bamboo (one of my favorite materials) here a close-up. IMO there is not much better. The small ridges are less than 0.03" and there is no tear-out or fuzz. I used brown oil stain to highlight the carving and in spite of the watery viscosity of the stain, little bleeding. Some surface sanding with 220 grit removed the spilled stain traces.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MYH-1RqsyOk/UtxgYjHtIzI/AAAAAAAAEi0/caG1A0dMdzs/w739-h862-no/DSC02157.JPG

[myxpykalix]

This is just a thought...but I think some of these Chinese and Japanese restaurants tend to use a lot of imagery and symbols as decoration. Why not go to some of them and take your camera phone and snap a few pictures and make some small samples.
I took this pic and made a copy for the guy who owns this restaurant that he hung inside. I bartered for free chicken dinners and haven't paid for one in over a year. Although i ate there everyday for 20 years because i had one of my stores next door. It is the best chicken in town...:D

[Burkhardt]

Now that was fast....I gave the sample to a sign shop and have already a request for quote. This is to replace 2 simple vertical signs 8" wide and 6' tall with simple large Chinese characters to be provided with a pdf of jpg file. That means not much of a design, just take it to Vcarve and vectorize.

Maybe you guys can help me with the calculation....

At 4 bdft the lumber for one sign would be about $20 to $80 depending on the species (let's assume maple or white oak for now). I would have to get it from the lumber yard (30 minutes) and prepare for machining, though. Doing the import and CAM work may take me 20 minutes and machine machine time estimated 40 minutes.

So...if I would quote $200 for one such sign unfinished and $250 with clear varnish does that sound about right? Or is is a) giving away money or b) a rip-off? Please keep in mind I have not done any CNC work for sale so far and I am looking to find my bearing here. Also, this is Los Angeles and labor is way more expensive here than in most areas. Obviously I need to find the sweet spot (or decide it is not worth my time) but I would like to start with a reasonable offer.

Thanks a lot for any feedback!

[Brady Watson]

Take whatever number you come up with & triple it. Then you will be in the right ballpark. Those new to CNC sales when it comes to work, grossly undersell themselves. The numbers you give sound way too low to me. I would not bother getting off my butt for all that effort if that was the price, unless I fell on real hard times.

Prices depend also on what the customer can bear. Only by 'pushing' around numbers will you find where the walls are and know where you need to be. Some jobs are best at an hourly rate. Others by linear inch. Others still, like 3D work by square footage. Then there's the 1/3 materials, 1/3 labor and 1/3 profit. Profit not being at all the same as labor/time exchange. Few get this - but I know you are sharp enough to.

Everyone has their own way of calculating their numbers & this is by & large an art if you want to land the highest number of meaningful jobs that will grow your business...note I did not say ALL the jobs - because you don't want that. Don't make excuses or be bashful about what you do. It is clear that you are intelligent and skillful - so by all means, get paid to play! You'll get over the 'guilt' soon enough! ;)

-B

[gene]

Listen to Brady. 200 FOR A 6' SIGN IS TOO CHEAP

[bleeth]

100-150/square foot minimum for a carved sign retail. Assuming you are NOT installing you can cut it down some, but I guarantee you that the actual work and execution won't be nearly as easy as you think.

[Brian Harnett]

The signwriters guide is a good reference. And you will get an idea on how much you are underselling.

http://www.signwritersusa.com/guides.html

The area I live in its hard to get the numbers they suggest, I start at 80 a square and go up from there.

[chiloquinruss]

I live in a rural area with many artisans so the question is without the cnc tool to aid me how would I make the same sign? How many man hours? What would that cost? That gives me a bargining start point. It generally works out to be about $75 to $100 per foot for the sign, DESIGN work is always extra. Russ

[Burkhardt]

Thanks guys, great advice. I will submit my quote accordingly. And probably get a copy of that pricing guide.

The work to be done probably should barely be called a "sign". It is more an off-the shelf 8" wide board to be carved with a few characters. But I suspect I am indeed underestimating all the side activities. Let's see how that works.

In my "real" job I am managing operations for an electronics manufacturer. Everything is nicely structured there. Components have a known cost, labor and machine times are measured and have known rates, there are defined setup cost and everything has overhead allocated and a certain profit margin. And, the accounting folks pull it all together.

That is much more fuzzy when you do everything yourself. I am not planning to get rich with that but a more self-sustaining and tax-saving hobby would be helpful.

[Brady Watson]

That is much more fuzzy when you do everything yourself.

Yes it is - it is an art sometimes.



I am not planning to get rich...

...and why pray tell aren't you?

"Those dirty rich people!" :D

-B

[GeneMpls]

"Those dirty rich people!"[/I] :D-B

We prefer 'filthy' rich thank you.

[Brian Harnett]

The faster you get to a good price point the better. When I started out I undersold myself actually a contractor I was subbing for told me I needed to charge more for my work.

If you get a repeat following its a lot harder to get them paying more when you start too cheap.

Pricing is difficult, the current cabinet job I am doing I priced well for my standards when the customer saw the estimate she thought it would be more you just don't know. Its ok she is a long time repeat customer and its a fair price for me.

[Burkhardt]

...and why pray tell aren't you?

"Those dirty rich people!" :D

-B

I did not say I don't want to get rich :rolleyes:
But I am a realist and am indeed not planning (or expecting) to get rich.

For that matter I want to start setting up something fun to do that keeps me busy in retirement a few years from now and pays some bills without working my butt off or dying in front of a TV or on a golf course.