Art Vs Salesperson Experience

[genek]

I’m passing this Arts Business Institute blog post on to you because I think it is really good advice as we struggle with the artist vs. salesperson experience.

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part of the topic go read the whole thing..

It’s not unusual for artists to want to stay in the studio, designing and creating what inspires them. You may likely feel the same way. But if you want to be a successful businessperson too, you must understand your selling process, even if you have a partner or assistant who takes care of marketing and sales for you.
Making art and selling it are like two sides of a coin. Which items sell, and why they sell, has a lot of influence on what you make in the future. It behooves the artist to keep their finger on what is selling and why. Here’s how that helps:

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Eugene. Thanks for the useful post.

Those interested in the Arts Business Institute may well also be interested in SEA, Self-Employment in the Arts. Here is a link to their website: http://www.selfemploymentinthearts.com/index.php

I attended one of the SEA conferences, and was very impressed,,,, and even learned a lot.

Thanks, Chuck

[joe]

I'm doubtful anyone on this forum is staying in their workshop because they are an artist. I'm taking a wild guess, it's due to making a decision about their market. If you don't have a marketing goal, it's doubtful work will come in.

To approach and build a market you should have good samples of your work and photo's to show how they work. Without those there's little hope a shop will do very well.

I'd bet that everyone buying a CNC has some marketing idea of how they are going to use the equipment. The only thing they need to do is follow through with their original ideas. It's not all that difficult. So many people wander off buying expensive programs, planning to do something completely different than their original purpose. It's so easy to get lost!

You don't need bazzoka equipment or strativarious techniques. It all gets down to defining a market and getting after it. Doors can open up all over the place once you start down a path.

[genek]

I'm doubtful anyone on this forum is staying in their workshop because they are an artist. I'm taking a wild guess, it's due to making a decision about their market. If you don't have a marketing goal, it's doubtful work will come in.

To approach and build a market you should have good samples of your work and photo's to show how they work. Without those there's little hope a shop will do very well.

I'd bet that everyone buying a CNC has some marketing idea of how they are going to use the equipment. The only thing they need to do is follow through with their original ideas. It's not all that difficult. So many people wander off buying expensive programs, planning to do something completely different than their original purpose. It's so easy to get lost!

You don't need bazzoka equipment or strativarious techniques. It all gets down to defining a market and getting after it. Doors can open up all over the place once you start down a path.
Joe you hit the nail on the head for most... Thanks for this wonder full post.

[genek]

Some more good advice not my word in one of my mag.

Increase exposure. Increase demand. Increase sales!




Your livelihood depends on staying in front of buyers. Advertising at the right time and in the right place is crucial

[Roy Harding]

I'm doubtful anyone on this forum is staying in their workshop because they are an artist. I'm taking a wild guess, it's due to making a decision about their market. If you don't have a marketing goal, it's doubtful work will come in.

To approach and build a market you should have good samples of your work and photo's to show how they work. Without those there's little hope a shop will do very well.

I'd bet that everyone buying a CNC has some marketing idea of how they are going to use the equipment. The only thing they need to do is follow through with their original ideas. It's not all that difficult. So many people wander off buying expensive programs, planning to do something completely different than their original purpose. It's so easy to get lost!

You don't need bazzoka equipment or strativarious techniques. It all gets down to defining a market and getting after it. Doors can open up all over the place once you start down a path.

Actually, Joe - I sell quite a bit of my stuff in art galleries ...

Other than that - your post is bang on. Of course, my original marketing plan INCLUDED art galleries, so your point is proved - at least in my case.

[joe]

Roy,

I'm proud of you.

Finding the price for your product is a continuing challenge. Both the cost of living and materials costs keep going up. It's a constant vigil for us.

One of my present business changes is to stock as little materials as possible. At one time we'd order in a $2,500 of HDU. We now order it as needed in 1" thickness. Gone are the days of 1.5" stock.

Everyone needs a identify their specific kind of customer. Which is known as target markets. It's easy to research.

[curtiss]

I am still waiting for the Joe Crumley / "Words of Wisdom & CNC" book to come out.

[gerryv]

I am still waiting for the Joe Crumley / "Words of Wisdom & CNC" book to come out.

I'll second that and I'll like it even more if it's not always politically correct - I prefer blunt honesty!

Actually, I think he's already given it to us in pieces with his wisdom on several forums but you're right: I'll be one of the first in line if he does something like gathering his many forum contributions (hopefully with some juicy pics) and organizes them into an eBook or iBook. I promise to buy two. :)

Blatant Hint Joe. :o

[Bob Eustace]

The best bit of advice I have gleaned from Joe is that there is little money in 3D signs and you are better off being more creative with V carving. This has proven to be just so true for us many, many times. Thank you Joe!

[joe]

Bob,

After years of experience with large exterior signage I know Vcarving will bring in a handsome price. However it doesn't have as sales potential as the standard 2.5D.

The for sure the most expensive and time consuming is 3D. Because it's so expensive most of my clients go for the 2.5D. Over the last fifteen years I've never lost a single job by not offering 3D. It's probably the most over rated technique out there. When pricing work, I give the customer three options. I haven't done a full 3D sign in five years.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[Xray]

I'm doubtful anyone on this forum is staying in their workshop because they are an artist. I'm taking a wild guess, it's due to making a decision about their market. If you don't have a marketing goal, it's doubtful work will come in.

To approach and build a market you should have good samples of your work and photo's to show how they work. Without those there's little hope a shop will do very well.

I'd bet that everyone buying a CNC has some marketing idea of how they are going to use the equipment. The only thing they need to do is follow through with their original ideas. It's not all that difficult. So many people wander off buying expensive programs, planning to do something completely different than their original purpose. It's so easy to get lost!

You don't need bazzoka equipment or strativarious techniques. It all gets down to defining a market and getting after it. Doors can open up all over the place once you start down a path.

I agree with the thrust of your comments - Focus, dedication, single purpose cannot be underrated.
But, bear in mind that this is a CNC forum, from what I understand you don't CNC anymore ,,, And one of the primary advantages a CNC machine offers is putting designs and ideas from your mind into reality. Sometimes going off on tangents can pay off, thinking outside the box can lead you down paths that are very promising.
Even if you don't hit paydirt, going down different paths can fulfill a creative urge that lies in every one of us to some degree. Sure, some ideas won't fly, some will be proven to be unworkable, while others take off and soar. The only real limit to what we can create is the imagination, and I'd be hard pressed to discourage that concept in others.

You might just say that I am speaking more as a hobbyist than a savvy businessman, and maybe thats true - But I'd like to think that there is a sweet spot which combines the two because if anyone is doing this purely for financial gain, things are going to get mighty stale before too long.

[joe]

Doug,


It's a misnomer the hobby class leads the way with creative techniques and design concept. But I'll keep a close look-out and in hopes I don't become stale. What are the first signs?

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com/)

[gerryv]

You might just say that I am speaking more as a hobbyist than a savvy businessman, and maybe thats true - But I'd like to think that there is a sweet spot which combines the two because if anyone is doing this purely for financial gain, things are going to get mighty stale before too long.

Don't think that needs to be the case because the Shopbot allows us to do two things at once. My desire is to run 80% V-Carve and 20% 2.5D for purely financial reasons (and be creative too) and, while the machine is hopefully making money for me, push my creativity ambitions with those plus some 3D to make gifts, etc. with no pressure to profit from it.

[joe]

Xray,

Please show some of your creative work.

Joe Crumley

[bleeth]

Creatively speaking there is a difference between an artist and a craftsman.
Those who devote their drive to pure art and have the talent for it are in the minority as well as deserving the utmost respect. Those who devote themselves to craftsmanship and have the drive and talent for it also deserve the utmost respect. The two can overlap, and when it comes to those who execute their own designs to their own satisfaction they are all to be respected.

[Xray]

Doug,


It's a misnomer the hobby class leads the way with creative techniques and design concept. But I'll keep a close look-out and in hopes I don't become stale. What are the first signs?

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com/)

You said [And I quote]:
"So many people wander off buying expensive programs, planning to do something completely different than their original purpose"

That can be construed as discouraging the experimentation and trying new concepts and ideas that are germane to enjoying and growing/advancing in CNC, I don't know how to read it any other way.
Too, many folks don't start out with an "original purpose" at all, they have to find themselves and their niche[s], and they do this via experimenting with new concepts.
Look Joe, you are blunt guy and I appreciate that, I tend not to mince words myself. I know that. I respect you and your work, and look with interest on what you have to say. But what you may define as success and worthy goals, others may not. There is something to be said for singleness of purposes, not losing focus and staying to a very few ventures as you seem to advocate, and something to be said for experimentation and variety, as I do. That doesn't make you wrong and me right, it offers perspective to others that may be reading that there may not be a defining "right way" to do things when it comes to CNC - In fact, I'd go so far as to say the biggest mistake is having an idea and not pursuing it.

You are out of CNC, correct ... And have been for quite some months ? If so, I can't tell ya how long it will take to get stale ,,, Try rollerskating lately ??


Xray,

Please show some of your creative work.

Joe Crumley


A few examples here
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18228 and a myriad of others on vectric & cammasters under nym "Xray/Xxray"

http://www.camheads.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7120&d=1387078532

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18860&d=1379048033


I have found a niche with plexi, have sold over 20 signs within the past month .. Partly attributable to Xmas, granted. Have also been doing well on mdf signs and a variety of things from custom etched MC windshields, custom guitar parts to custom cases.
Do I have $$ coming out of my ears from it ? No.
Do I make enough to make it worthwhile, enjoy myself, make many new contacts and get ideas which lead to other things ? Yes.

[joe]

You Win,

Keep up the good work.

Woops, I just read your last line of the post. Perhaps you have assumed I'm out of production. I'm in full swing, five days a week. The last month has been six days. The amount of finished retail signs are at one of it's highest. Lets see if I can post a few of my latest work in a day or two.

[myxpykalix]

Joe...the last i heard you were going into semi-retirement:eek:

Seems like you are working harder now:eek:

[Brian Harnett]

Your right Joe I think you are an accomplished successful sign maker but not an artist, and you keep busy good for you.

Some of the most creative signs and art done in cnc I have ever seen are on the creative cnc forum truly amazing stuff there.

Art is subjective and can be debated forever I do what I like and try to find a balance call it what you may.

[gerryv]

Ouch; for most of of us still on the learning curve, I'm not sure how "being out" of something for a few months would wipe out all of our hard earned skills and knowledge or our artistic instincts for that matter. By way of analogy, If we're away from our families or favorite sport for a few months do we forget them or automatically lose the right to talk about them? I don't think that Maloof and Krenov would have been assumed to be out of touch with how to use a tablesaw would they? Thank goodness for mentors. BTW. Great observation Bleeth.

[myxpykalix]

Well while we are discussing philosophy, i think art and craftsmanship and almost interchange from the viewers perspective.

I don't want to leave anyone out but take two guys here like AJ Coholic and Brian Harnett. I would classify them as "Craftsmen"...
But what they create in my eyes is beautiful works of "Art". I can look at one of their tables or chairs and to me that has more appeal then some painting on a wall.
Same thing with Joe Crumleys signs...you know the artistic creativity that went into creating that.
I guess it's kind of like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder":D

[Xray]

You Win,

Keep up the good work.

Woops, I just read your last line of the post. Perhaps you have assumed I'm out of production. I'm in full swing, five days a week. The last month has been six days. The amount of finished retail signs are at one of it's highest. Lets see if I can post a few of my latest work in a day or two.

I recall reading that you now subcontract out the actual CNC work, and your end is finishing and designing to a degree.
Nothing wrong with that, your work stands on its own and commercially is some of the finest out there. Not many guys, myself included, will ever approach your level in this field, which is why I think its wise for most to diversify at least a bit, tinker around and try new things until a niche makes itself apparent.

[genek]

The article that I posted would apply to almost any business if not to all. It does not matter if you are a craft maker, artist that paints, a sign company, cabinet maker. One can have the best product in the world, but if you do not get out and sale your product and yourself the product will not make you any money. I can make millions of oven rack pulls, I can have 40 warehouses full, but if I do not get out and find customers, talk to them and find out what they need or want I will go broke. Here is that article that I wanted this forum to read.

It’s not unusual for artists to want to stay in the studio, designing and creating what inspires them. You may likely feel the same way. But if you want to be a successful businessperson too, you must understand your selling process, even if you have a partner or assistant who takes care of marketing and sales for you.
Making art and selling it are like two sides of a coin. Which items sell, and why they sell, has a lot of influence on what you make in the future. It behooves the artist to keep their finger on what is selling and why. Here’s how that helps:
1. You become a consultative partner with your retailers. No one is more of an expert on your artwork than you are. This puts you in a position to recommend bestsellers, groupings and sales strategies to your wholesale accounts. Start those long-term business relationships by letting your buyers know that you understand them well.
2. You become more effective when making artist appearances. Yes, there are times when you must emerge from the studio and meet the public. When you have sales experience, you gain confidence and also are in a position to boost sales of your work because you are more adept at sharing your inspiration and your story.
3. You make more informed decisions on your line. Think about your bestsellers. Did you know that you probably should keep them forever? Yes, it’s true. The 80/20 rule says that in general, 20 percent of your designs will account for 80 percent of your sales. Discontinue the slow sellers, and explore how you can expand your bestselling collections into even more sales.
4. When you are clear on why customers buy your work, you stay more focused. What is it that your fans love most about your brand and your artwork? A sale is made when the customer values your work more than they value the money they are handing over to buy it. Get in that sweet spot where you know what makes the difference to a collector of your work. Then you are poised to create all of your future work in the same spirit.
5. Face-to-face selling get the most honest feedback. When customers tell you that your handmade clothing doesn’t have quite the right fit, or that they wish your hand thrown mugs would come in blue, listen to them. Sometimes the best ideas come directly from your customers’ mouths. Being in business means that you are also in customer service. Nothing serves customers better than understanding what they want and providing it the best way you can.

[genek]

I visit my customer, I look at what they have to sale in their stores, I ask my customers what they need or want. I encourage my customers to tell me things that they would like for me to develop. I am very up front with my customers. A very good example. One of my biggest customers wanted 40 of my yo-yo's. I called her and had a talk with her. The yo-yo's are slow movers and I knew she would sit on that large of a order to the point she would put them on sale at what she bought them for. This hurts her store, my sales, my other customers sales. She dropped her order down and thanked me for being honest.

I had some product that something happened to it after it was delivered, and not totally sure when it occurred, was my wood to wet or dry, did the customers store have to high or too low humidity, did someone spill water on the product. I can only guess, however I can bite the bullet and make it right for my customer. Had I not gone by there Saturday I would never have know about the problem, she had discounted 13 mirrors that we sold her, they warped for what ever reason, I pulled them and told her employee that I would credit her back for those. I sent my customer a credit on her last bill that she had not paid for yet.

Here is her comment back to me. Thanks, Eugene. We really appreciate your crediting the mirrors. Really enjoy doing business with you. Hope Tina is continuing to improve. V

Trust is important in a business relationship. my customers knows that I am above board with them, each of my customers knows I back my product. There is only two things you take to the grave with you (your name and your but.) I only want one of them to stink...

[MarkPrescott]

Eugene,

I sure enjoy your posts a lot. I had my own company for 30 years or more and it doesn't matter what your selling, it matters that you sell and treat your customers like you want to be treated. Sometimes that means just giving a credit even if you don't think it was your fault. It usually comes back to you many times over the amount credited.

Thank you for such down to earth and common since posts. You have help more people than you know.:)

Mark

[genek]

Eugene,

I sure enjoy your posts a lot. I had my own company for 30 years or more and it doesn't matter what your selling, it matters that you sell and treat your customers like you want to be treated. Sometimes that means just giving a credit even if you don't think it was your fault. It usually comes back to you many times over the amount credited.

Thank you for such down to earth and common since posts. You have help more people than you know.:)

Mark
Thank you Mr. Johnson for the Kind words. I try to help people, I even help My own competitors. When I started my business I did not have anyone to give me advice. I want others That are in business or Getting ready to start a business to have it easier than I have. People by nature do not like to help others that might end up being their competitors. I have no such problem. Most do not realize that having competitors helps you stay a head of the game. The old saying keep your friends close and your enemies closer.. well that holds even more true with competitors. My local competitors are friends, I know what they are making and they know what I am making and now that we are friends we do not try to under price each other.. no matter what you make you will always have copy cats and other products that will compete with you. I would rather have friendly competition than hostile. I send my own customers to some of my competitors.. If i keep their product moving they leave my product alone and do not try to copy. lol...
I use the golden rule..... so far it has paid off for me..

[joe]

Sales presentations have changed a great deal in the last five years.

At one time the yellow pages was all it took to keep me busy. About that time I had brochures made to be mailed out. Postage was cheap. That worked, like a dream, for about six years. Then along comes the internet and advertising took a quick right turn. At the present, I live off of my website. That alone is the only advertising expense. However, I'd be amiss to suggest that would work for everyone.

The workshop we'll be having here this May, for sign shops, is about target markets and developing a footprint with other like minded sign companies.

Eugene, I'm suspicious your postings about marketing may be a little off topic. Not that there's anything wrong with it but the majority of guys on this forum are hobby guys and not willing or able to aggressively follow a marketing strategy. I'd venture a guess most of them are very happy staying in the amateur ranks. Nothing wrong with that. For you and me that won't work.

[scottp55]

Joe, Please don't take this amiss, but I don't think too many of are averse to paying off our machines, or creating additional income no matter how much we like playing. Hate disagree with one of the Greats:(
Eugene is an aggressive salesman and wholesale would drive most of us nuts but he makes a decent living doing something he likes? Not a bad thing in my book.
I was designing last week and came up with something I liked, and a few others as well. Dad shot it down, He liked HIS design better:) (Go figure). Shot Eugene a pic and he immediatelly said he thought it could sell and I modified it slightly and am now doing proto's in 3 woods and 3 sizes and I have incoming e-mails asking for pictures and prices. IF I wanted wholesale for the blanks with no engraving BORING and I can't do that quantity anyways- He could FLOOD me with work. He didn't even want to take a free proto I made for him as a concept cut-wanted to mail me a check. It's a big enough world for all Shopbotters to find their OWN path.
Thanks for the help and advice Eugene.
Scott

[genek]

[QUOTE=joe;159832]Sales presentations have changed a great deal in the last five years.

At one time the yellow pages was all it took to keep me busy. About that time I had brochures made to be mailed out. Postage was cheap. That worked, like a dream, for about six years. Then along comes the internet and advertising took a quick right turn. At the present, I live off of my website. That alone is the only advertising expense. However, I'd be amiss to suggest that would work for everyone.

The workshop we'll be having here this May, for sign shops, is about target markets and developing a footprint with other like minded sign companies.

Eugene, I'm suspicious your postings about marketing may be a little off topic. Not that there's anything wrong with it but the majority of guys on this forum are hobby guys and not willing or able to aggressively follow a marketing strategy. I'd venture a guess most of them are very happy staying in the amateur ranks. Nothing wrong with that. For you and me that won't work.



Joe Sales may have changed, However Knocking on doors Brings in customers, In the Arts and Crafts wholesale business it takes knocking on doors and shows to bring in the wholesale customers. Without one getting out there and showing off his work to these customers \, those customers will never find out about you. Your signs are a large bill board for you. You have developed your market, But I would venture to say when you first started out you cold called on customers and dropped off your business cards showed samples and pictures. There may be more on here that want to remain as a hobbyist but there are others on here that want to develop a wood working business to support their self or just make extra money. I decided a long time ago that I wanted to be just do wholesale I like to do the work and have a quick turn around on my investment. In order to have a quick turn over I had to develop customers that wanted to buy my product and buy it in volume and on a regular time frame.

I have been helping several on here to develop a market, and I have told others that they had a good product and needed to market their product and their self. Here is a copy of a e-mail I received today from someone that I suggested a market and told them that they had a good product to market. (Not a bad idea, I'm not the best at trying to push my products but should give it a shot, especially one so specific such as this) Most that start up a business like sales skills, the are unsure of their own talents or ability and all they need is a little push in the right directions. Most on this forum were not salesmen before getting their shop bot. Most like the skills in being a salesman to get their company up and running at a fast pass. Hopefully my post help others to learn to be a successful business person.

[genek]

Joe I was typing a response to your comment and did not see Scott's comments till after I had posted. Scott Showed me a design he was working on. I made a very small suggestion. I liked it, I also knew that some of my customers would like it. I asked him if I could introduce his product to my customers. I have showed several of my customers his products and they want pricing. I have seen Scott's design and his product, I could easily have copied it and sold it to my customers, however I would prefer Scott and some others on here that I am sort of mentoring to make their product and be successful. My wife fell in love with two peoples designs and wants me to buy them wholesale and then mark up and re-wholesale with our line of product. Scott's product is one of them. I am making all the product that I can right now. I empty 2 to 3 (55) gallon drums of saw dust each week. I am developing other products and test marketing them, yes I sale my patterns of my products, and all the patterns that I do sale I also wholesale the actual product. My goal is to help all the shop botters that I can. I want no pay for my suggestions or help. I'm in this for the pleasure of helping others.

[joe]

Eugene,

As I previously stated, there are many kinds of businesses and techniques. I'll never, ever knock on a door. NEVER. I'm not saying this doesn't work for some businesses but not effective with my kind of customer.

When dealing with professional like doctors, dentist, vets, ranches, they don't appreciate cold calling. None of my customers are open to that. I bet you don't like telephone advertising. No One Does but it must work or it wouldn't keep going.

Smart creative advertising, targeting markets is the most effective method I've found. Simple as it may sound, every sign company should have a beautiful sign out front.

When you're fishing and only pull little fish, that's the clue to move over to another hole that had big fat ones. That's what I've done. Fishing for the lunkers. There easier to find and catch. As an artist, I never wanted high volumes.

It's good to have the amateur class. This forum has served them well. At one time there were lots of sign pro's showing the way. Most have moved on to more commercial forums. For example the CSA is a pro forum where each Friday, known as "Red Friday" the fellow post their signs from the week. What a hoot. Then there's the Walldog group and Original Letterheads. All professional designers, painters, and fabricators. That's where they've have gone.

[genek]

Eugene,

As I previously stated, there are many kinds of businesses and techniques. I'll never, ever knock on a door. NEVER. I'm not saying this doesn't work for some businesses but not effective with my kind of customer.

When dealing with professional like doctors, dentist, vets, ranches, they don't appreciate cold calling. None of my customers are open to that. I bet you don't like telephone advertising. No One Does but it must work or it wouldn't keep going.

Smart creative advertising, targeting markets is the most effective method I've found. Simple as it may sound, every sign company should have a beautiful sign out front.

When you're fishing and only pull little fish, that's the clue to move over to another hole that had big fat ones. That's what I've done. Fishing for the lunkers. There easier to find and catch. As an artist, I never wanted high volumes.

It's good to have the amateur class. This forum has served them well. At one time there were lots of sign pro's showing the way. Most have moved on to more commercial forums. For example the CSA is a pro forum where each Friday, known as "Red Friday" the fellow post their signs from the week. What a hoot. Then there's the Walldog group and Original Letterheads. All professional designers, painters, and fabricators. That's where they've have gone.

Joe you are so lucky, You started making signs and never left your shop and the customers came knocking down your door, well in the real world, people that are starting up a business, must develop sales skills and marketing skills. In the real world customers do not come knocking on ones doors until they have established their self. The post I started was for those who want a crafts business.

[joe]

Eugene

Lets agree to disagree.

That won't work with higher class customers.

One of my best techniques ended up with a realtor who only sold and managed Farms & Ranches. As everyone knows when a ranch changes hands a new set of signs is going to be built.

The realtor was glad to tell them she knows a local sign company who can assist. From there, one meeting and a few sketches is all it takes. Most farms and ranches end up between 7 to 15K and there's plenty of time to do the job right. You don't kneed lots of customers if you get the prices right.

Another wonderful method is to join the Chamber of Commerce, Lions Club and other civic groups. At some point you become the "Go To" guy. That's the way it is at the University of Okla. After while the work just comes in.

No Cold Calling if you work smart.

[genek]

That is very odd it worked for the University of Kentucky. I called and got an appointment, after I found out they were wanting a sign. I ended up making 3 signs for them and Thursday they called me and asked if I would meet with them on Friday.. Now I have two more signs to make for the University of Kentucky. I had to introduce my work and my company to them.. All people starting out has to do some sort of first contact. No you do not just walk in and do a sales pitch on most.. One does not just start making product or signs and then get jobs you have to do something to get those jobs that was what this was all about... getting jobs I was not talking about signs. I was talking about art and crafts. I called the largest Liquor Distributor in Kentucky two weeks ago for an appointment to meet with the buyer for non alcohol products, I got the appointment, I meet with the buyer, I showed them My products that I wanted to introduce to their stores, Guess what, that buyer for the Ky stores ask if I would leave my Samples so that he could take them to the corporate office to see if the other buyers for other states wanted to buy my product. Had I not approached the HIGH end Customer I would not even be having my Product reviewed. On weekend's Tina and I drive to Different parts of the state and into some states I go into stores and look at what they sale,, if I think My product will sale there, I ask who the buyer is and get a phone number.. (that is what I call cold calling) then I call that person and set up a appointment, or make arrangement to send them product to review.
The point of this whole post was to help people sale.

[genek]

The biggest hurdles in sales is believing in ones product and in ones own self.

A good example. I heard that the University of Kentucky was needing signs. I had never done a sign for anyone other than one I did for my own company. I had confidence in my self and with doing work on the cnc, so I called and got an appointment. I made up a small sign in blue foam to take with me to show what I could do with the cnc. When I found out that I got the job I had to get on the forum and ask advice on how to do a textured background what type of paint to use etc. I got the job, they were very well pleased with the Job. Now do to my first contact and by doing a good job the first time, I have been asked to do two more signs.

The first few minutes in a meeting is the most critical. You can either win or lose the job by how you word things, by your confidence and by the way you are dressed. Watch the mind games... they show you that two people can walk in have the same speech but word it differently and one get the job and the other considered unfit even though they used the same words just placed differently.
Do not expect work to come to you.. At least until you have established your reputation and your company.
Get appointments, cold call to find out who the buyers are. Go after all the jobs that you can handle and more.

[Xray]

Great dialog between 2 established pros with contrasting business styles, doesn't get much better than that ! Both of you are stand up guys, offering advice and techniques freely - And your passion, which I think is the real key to each of yours success, shows very clearly. Without that, and without believing in yourself and the products you offer, you will not advance far in ay field.

I personally am not a door knocker, I feel awkward, pushy and very self conscious, which are traits I normally don't have. Maybe I'll get over that to a degree, maybe I don't have to I don't know ,,, But as Eugene suggested in a PM for instance, I could almost certainly drum up some sales taking my 3D plexi gun design to gun shops, firing ranges, perhaps law enforcement ect, I could personalize the design with any inscription they wanted. Now that I think I can do, its very specific and is targeted, no pun intended, at a very specific crowd.
Same with the religious stuff, its self evident how/where they sort of stuff can be marketed. I actually tried my one and only walk in at a large Christian book store, didn't go very well. I am not overly religious but I am a believer, I look like a Hells Angel though, I have a thuggish appearance that some find unsettling. I think the lady thought it was going to be a stickup instead of a sales pitch and I instantly felt awkward, so I said hi and rushed right into my purpose, I had some samples and was pulling them out as I was talking.
She politely told me before I finished that while my stuff was very nice, purchasing decisions were up to the corporate office, I guess I should have asked how to get ahold of those folks but I had enough, just said thanks and packed up my wares and left, vowing never to do that again.
But hopefully I'll get over it, if I ever want to take sales to another level I'll have to.

I might add that I have found that giving samples can pay dividends, I gave a light up plexi clock with a union logo to my local, they put it in the dues room and that has drummed up sales just sitting there. A buddy of mine owns a strip bar, gave him a sign and have had many orders from that, ditto for a MC club I am associated with.
I donate all kinds of stuff there, but have made 10x that back from orders.
Some things almost sell themselves, and light up signs with etched designs are 2nd to none for that.