I need help making a breakable product.

[knight_toolworks]

sounds goofy right? well nike wants me to make these swishes that they will drop and have shatter. first they wanted white but now want black. Below is the mold but the material is getting harder. my two idea's were make a hard candy it is just sugar and water. but how to color it solid black? it has to be hot enough to flow so not sure if you could add coloring to it and not have problems. plaster was the next idea it works but getting it black with some paint mixed in weakened it some black tint may work but not sure I can find any on a sunday.
I got a casting resin that tap though would shatter but it is taking way too long to cure and a 1/2" thick wrap off it that did cure just clunked. I am making one more test with double the hardening agent. some type of clay may work like they have the oven hardening clay.


http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/B911B836-2CD8-424E-AF9F-DF7809062A53_zpsyewiwy9e.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/B911B836-2CD8-424E-AF9F-DF7809062A53_zpsyewiwy9e.jpg.html)

[Brady Watson]

Smash! Plastic (http://www.smooth-on.com/Urethane-Plastic-a/c5_1120_1164/index.html) :cool:

-B

[kurt_rose]

MAN BRADY! Is there anything you don't know. :D

[myxpykalix]

MAN BRADY! Is there anything you don't know.

Maybe one thing....
"Now where did I put those car keys?":eek:

[knight_toolworks]

that would work but I don't think I could get it in time. Nike is an extreme rush company everything is so rushed but getting paid :D
so this is a job I got friday and have to scramble to get it going by monday.
the plaster breaks well though is pretty delicate.

[genek]

Steve if the plaster breaks the way you want you can stiffen it by adding sea grass string (rope) shred the rope and mix in. When i used to make plaster cast from my mom she had me to put the rope shreds in the plaster to help stiffen it.
You may try that .. BLACK FOOD COLORING MAY WORK.

[knight_toolworks]

it needs some stiffening it is pretty delicate. or just far more time to dry. been putting it in the oven and I got the color close to black.

[Brady Watson]

that would work but I don't think I could get it in time. Nike is an extreme rush company everything is so rushed but getting paid...

That's quite a price to pay for the 'privilege' of being their minion :rolleyes:

There comes a time when you gather enough feathers in your hat that you just say 'no thanks'. This has more to do with your own beliefs about customers and money than anything else.

-B

[genek]

it needs some stiffening it is pretty delicate. Or just far more time to dry. Been putting it in the oven and i got the color close to black.
easy way to shred cut up into 2 inch lengths run in blinder with water. Use mixture to pour into plaster ///

[hh_woodworking]

Rit dye to color with

[knight_toolworks]

I had the rit idea too and some black ink works well. nike is a rush company and I have done work for them through many companies and it has always been a crazy schedule. I know several companies that make a lot of money from them and they deal with the same rush rush risk and 90 days to pay. but I always work through someone else so I get paid right away.
usually I make great money doing it. though th only time I did not hey only had 60.00 left in their budget for this 3' swish. I made one anyone (2" thick mdc) and painted it with some metallic metal paint and showed them a pic. only got 60.00 but it also sat on the table at the Olympics. and only took me 30 minutes or so to make.
this weekend would have been dull bad weather and broke so this gave me something to do at home.

[knight_toolworks]

here was the first plaster one. shatters pretty well. I tried a air dry clay baked in the oven easier to work with but it did not really shatter.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/th_IMG_0175_zps898b0293.jpg (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/IMG_0175_zps898b0293.mp4)

[coryatjohn]

How about ice? You can freeze the mold with dry ice and the ice will be especially brittle when cooled to -50f.

Making it black should be relatively easy too.

[knight_toolworks]

How about ice? You can freeze the mold with dry ice and the ice will be especially brittle when cooled to -50f.

Making it black should be relatively easy too.
thats a great idea easy to do and dirt cheap to make. stainign the plaster black did not work well. it blackened fine but it would not harden fully. I just used ink and a bit of RIT dye but it never got hard as the white.

[knight_toolworks]

the water idea was out too much mess with all the heat from the lights.
but I found out how to do the sugar use lamp black. I am going to make some in case the plaster fails.

[scottp55]

Your sugar idea but poured over black aquarium gravel? Not sure how it would break though. May be too fragile. sweet concrete?

[chiloquinruss]

In my modeling I use concrete colors to color the dry plaster before mixing. It won't change the chemicals in the polaster if it is specific to the stuff for coloring concrete. Might give it a try. Russ

[knight_toolworks]

working on the sugar now I tried adding lamp black the sugar right before poring and it just causes the sugar to go nuts cooking it all at once seems the key.
here is a picot a good one and one where the stuff goes bad for some reason
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/D8F3A257-D768-44EF-8E6E-E01CBB37BF42_zpsphswqugy.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/D8F3A257-D768-44EF-8E6E-E01CBB37BF42_zpsphswqugy.jpg.html)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/F0766A86-4440-4064-BE41-6025A14DB520_zpswu97vkcr.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/F0766A86-4440-4064-BE41-6025A14DB520_zpswu97vkcr.jpg.html)

[knight_toolworks]

In my modeling I use concrete colors to color the dry plaster before mixing. It won't change the chemicals in the polaster if it is specific to the stuff for coloring concrete. Might give it a try. Russ

I had a thought about that but all the time I wasted on coloring the paster I did not have any more time to mess with it. the surer works well and shatters even better and it only takes ten minutes or so to cast them with a fan. 3 hours and I am done.
this was an interesting workout and I leaned a lot. though I may never need the info again.

[knight_toolworks]

well it worked out well and the commercial is filmed. I also did a swoosh in 8 pieces that will have 8 people pushing it together. got paid well for what would have been a boring weekend I did the work at home so that made it better. Now I wonder if I will see the commercial?

[Ajcoholic]

You sure do some interesting stuff for work, Steve! :D A lot more "interesting" than just building chairs and tables.

I wish I could see the commercial.

[knight_toolworks]

You sure do some interesting stuff for work, Steve! :D A lot more "interesting" than just building chairs and tables.

I wish I could see the commercial.

I do do some oddballs stuff and some crazy stuff but a lot of boring stuff too. Since most of the time I just cut other peoples parts out I just sit and babysit the machine. So this was interesting and L earned a lot though the time frame made it stressful. but it worked out and they are happy.
Nike is a crazy company to work for extreme rush and with good pay. I luck out and work through someone else because it takes 90 days to get paid by them.
I did a 3' swoosh out of mdf 2" thick they only had 60.00 left in the budget and could not pay more but I did it to see if I could make it look like metal. Plus it went on the Olympics table so that was cool.
I am working on this right now I make 300 sets of parts at a time. takes 20 hours of machine time. I cut all but the box out of 1/8" baltic birch and I use a 1/16" downcut bit. I can cut 15 hours on one bit sometimes.
https://www.tenderlovingempire.com/12/tle-store-items/sailboat-automaton/

[Ajcoholic]

I do do some oddballs stuff and some crazy stuff but a lot of boring stuff too. Since most of the time I just cut other peoples parts out I just sit and babysit the machine. So this was interesting and L earned a lot though the time frame made it stressful. but it worked out and they are happy.
Nike is a crazy company to work for extreme rush and with good pay. I luck out and work through someone else because it takes 90 days to get paid by them.
I did a 3' swoosh out of mdf 2" thick they only had 60.00 left in the budget and could not pay more but I did it to see if I could make it look like metal. Plus it went on the Olympics table so that was cool.
I am working on this right now I make 300 sets of parts at a time. takes 20 hours of machine time. I cut all but the box out of 1/8" baltic birch and I use a 1/16" downcut bit. I can cut 15 hours on one bit sometimes.
https://www.tenderlovingempire.com/12/tle-store-items/sailboat-automaton/

They advertise as "hand made". Youre cranking the spindle by hand right?? :D

[knight_toolworks]

hand assembled and painted. Hey I drew them by hand. my hands handle the material and punch buttons (G)

[scottp55]

If they hand over the money, he makes them.:)

[knight_toolworks]

thank god I don't have to sand and paint and assemble them. though I told them about using a rock timber to sand the waves. I cut 4 sheets of Baltic birch for the waves and boats. they are ripped in half and it takes 3 hours a sheet to cut the waves with a 1/16" bit. I have learned to staple the sheet down so I don't have to have the vacuum on for so long and I use a downcut bit to keep them in place.

[scottp55]

Thanks a lot Steve, Woke up for a split sec, and before I could shut my brain down "I wonder which candy recipe he used and If he used candy thermometer?" :) Hopeless now, so might as well make expresso, as now I need to do thickness sander reviews, and design a fly box:) Wood/candy/Shopbots are addictive. Let's see feeds and speeds for cork?:rolleyes:

[knight_toolworks]

just got done with the box thing here are pics of the pieces
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/9D1594C4-4F7D-490F-B96F-61B89CD5884E_zps5kwkzaa2.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/9D1594C4-4F7D-490F-B96F-61B89CD5884E_zps5kwkzaa2.jpg.html)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/D415CC6A-3B2C-48F1-B32F-3A470057FAB2_zpsokpftjpx.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/D415CC6A-3B2C-48F1-B32F-3A470057FAB2_zpsokpftjpx.jpg.html)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/185C57B3-B63C-4304-AC4E-89A2A4E41796_zpsqeo5g2yk.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/185C57B3-B63C-4304-AC4E-89A2A4E41796_zpsqeo5g2yk.jpg.html)

[scottp55]

Steve, Love the box itself, Didn't realize it was solid wood. What does your table look like when you're ready to do a run? Don't have the Z, but what are you running for a bit for production like that. Glad you're not the one painting them, didn't realize either you were making so many of them. Nice wood.

[knight_toolworks]

I use a disposable jig made from 1" material I just reuse the clamp bars. 7 boxes at a time it takes 10 minutes to hollow 2 strips.
I use a 1/2" downcut finisher bit from onsrud I got for around 12.00 I make 300 sets at a time. 20 hours of machine time total to cut all parts and maybe 2 hours to machine the wood and cut the boxes apart. the boxes also have two holes drilled in the back using the same jig.
the toolpaths are highly edited to remove all excess moves so I can streamline it as much as possible.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/7BC4A810-90CB-4518-83B5-BBFBF26A6169_zpsngffm160.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/knighttoolworks/media/posting/7BC4A810-90CB-4518-83B5-BBFBF26A6169_zpsngffm160.jpg.html)

[scottp55]

1/2" Onsrud down finisher for $12!? I'll take 2! Thanks for posting pics. Saw one of the two holes, but wasn't sure why they were there. Can see why 2 at a time after trying to clamp 13 cubes in a row X's 10 rows. Thought downcut finishers were slow, now rethinking and keeping an eye on e-bay for deals vs. always buying from regular suppliers. Thanks
scott

[gc3]

gotta love production runs...

in a production shop, jigs, thinking outside the "box" to pump out the product is important

always nice to deliver product with client to do finishing...

[SomeGuys2007]

I watched that video and that has to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen in my life!!!!!!!! That must be what they use in the movies.

[Michaelodunk]

I wonder if it would be faster rough out the box with a forstner bit before going to the bot?

[knight_toolworks]

I have not seen the bits on ebay since they are great so much quieter in solid wood then regular downcut bits. I cut 3ips 1/2" on a pas I think I have to do these fast to make it practical. They could use a cleanup pass but that would add a fair amount of time. a forsner bit would be a pain they are pretty slow when you are talking the bigger ones. it only takes the machine .about 40 seconds or so to hollow a box. I do 14 in 10 minutes.
no use having more at a time it only takes a minute to change them out.

[scottp55]

Steve, Sorry to bug you, but is it the low helix finishers shown on left, or chipbreaker/finisher on right? I'm getting $80-126. Is it a totally different critter? These prices scare me on my budget-found one on left E-bay. Thanks for the help.

[knight_toolworks]

the on on the right. ya the price is high for sure. I bought maybe 10 of them all I had money for at the time. I have not seen them since. they pretty much only sell oddball bits so don't expect more.

[steve_g]

Here’s another site I watch for good prices on bits...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/saws4sale/m.html?item=181375562916&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/saws4sale/m.html?item=181375562916&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562)
Sometimes a bit will bid up to full retail, and then nobody will bid on the next very similar one. ???
SG

[scottp55]

Steve & Steve, Thanks. All proto work here and still a newbie, so 1 by 1 gradually adding all sorts of bits here to experiment with. Need to pickup speed and quality for production on Northern Desktop though to reduce price. So I buy single bits to find what works best(and doesn't work well) and then tweak design and cuts until I shoot the package up North with 2 each of the bits, as he's REALLY a newbie and doesn't have time to play around. Our burn rate on start up money is scary so on my one of bits always looking for a good deal to save Dad money. Northern shop we're trying to use reliable suppliers. Rambling. Thanks again