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Questor
09-08-2014, 08:22 AM
howdy folks, steve g. here.

i've been watching here for 6 or 7 years now, waiting for the chance to get one of these for myself. finally got a great deal on a used desktop 3 or 4 weeks ago, and after doing a few small projects, upgraded my z axis to the 5.5" last night.

now, i've been talking with scott p. about several things, and as we both got our upgrade kits on saturday, he asked me to keep an eye out for things that may cause problems for him in the wheelchair while performing the upgrade. he got a bit more than he asked for.

so that everyone who is considering doing this has more information, here is what i sent to scott last night once i completed it.

first off, link to the .pdf for the upgrade instructions:
http://www.shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/files/SBG%2000197%205.5%20Inch%20Z-Axis%20Retrofit%202014%2009%2004.pdf

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ok, tools you will need: (very surprised that they do not tell you with the instructions, also that they did not include a paper copy of the instructions along with the kit)
3mm allen wrench
4mm allen wrench
if like me, supply your own cable ties, none included (no extra bolts, either)
wire strippers
small straight screwdriver, mini
small flashlight (to see circuit board, maybe help with running wire)
recommend at least two 3" thick blocks, or 4 pieces of 2x4 material, 2 pieces stacked. i had to put my wee beastie up on blocks to run the wire.

i recommend getting the ratchet bits for the allen wrenches. i got two short 3mm and one long 3mm ratchets (pic included). i used them as shown in the photo. i left the tag attached to one short, and kind of used it like a screw driver, came in very handy for many parts. i did end up snapping the long bit half way through, luckily after i had loosened everything. really made life interesting without it, really needed. (also stripped the regular allen wrench on the step 4 screws, they were really tough for me).

a good test for whether or not a person in a wheelchair can do this on your own: can you remove the spring from your position? i had to go around the machine to get a good angle on it. running the wire through the support system may or may not be easy either, tho running under the machine will be easier, once you put it up on blocks.

when you unplug the machine, make sure that you also disconnect the usb cable, as this supplies power to the board. if you forget, when you get to the back side to connect the wires, you will see a green light to remind you.

as i removed bolts, i set them in groups in order of removal, so that when putting them back, i just worked in the opposite direction. just a handy hint, as there are some varying sizes.

i started at the 12,0 position, and found that you didn't have enough table to work with. go to 12,5 or so, much better.

when you remove the spindle from the gantry in step 3, disconnect the big orange power cable, if you have not already done so.

in step 11, when you put the black nut back on, just put it on the length of the black nut, no further. if you do, depending on how far the motor swiveled, you may need to dis/reassemble parts later on.

at the start of step 12, remove the proximity switch on your new support bracket. set it and its two screws aside until after step 20. will explain then.

at step 16, as mentioned earlier, watch the rotation of the motor when lining up parts to attach the z axis nut block. i was half way up the shaft with the black nut and had to take things apart afterwards.

at step 18, tighten the bolts most of the way. basically, tighten all the way, then back off slightly. it will be difficult to tighten later during the squaring phase, due to the assembly being in the way.

at step 20, if you have not removed the proximity switch, you will not be able to place assembly on the rail, as it will stop. this surprised me, but easily solved. if you did remove it as i suggested, note how closely you come to the plate on the gantry as you slide things into place.

after step 21, attach your spring. they don't mention it until the very end, last paragraph of the instructions. just easier so that you don't forget about it. if all goes well, you won't need to remove again. you will need a longer wire (maybe) than you needed to take it off, with the longer support.

at the start of step 23, reattach the proximity switch. as you can see, you can only use 1 of the screws to secure it in place, as the z motor drive blocks the second one.

in step 25, as you can see, it is kinda of rough to tighten the bolts back up, and if you don't have the long allen bit, is a huge challenge (as it was for me, with the broken bit). once you have the upper bolts tight, you will have to turn the motor shaft by hand to move it up, in order to tighten the lower ones. yes, you have to move the motor, so do it gently, you don't really have a choice.

step 27: challenge accepted! this may be rough for you (and for the fact that to do it right, you will end up moving the gantry, i'm sorry). and also, if you can't access the top gantry cables, in order to feed through the bundle. (when you do, feed half way and out, pull through, then feed the other direction from that end, easier.

once you get cable to the side and bottom of the gantry, it's time to put your machine up on blocks, the front 2 feet. i didn't bother to redo the cable ties under there, just added one at the start, and one at the entrance to the bundle.

again, feed the wire straight through to you, and pull the extra to you.

and here is where you will not be happy. i tried to feed the wire through the bundle, but could not do it. i had a small screwdriver under to help poke the wire back up (keeps wanting to come out here and there, and to shove wires aside to help). i ended up feeding the wire a couple sections at a time, moving the gantry very slowly towards the rear of the machine, a little at a time. i would say that i ended up about 2/3 of the way back, and feed the wire the last 1/3 of the way in one shot. just had to reach back and pop the wire through the hole. you may get lucky, and not have to move the gantry, but i tried for 20min, then gave in.

once done, you can remove the blocks from under the feet.

at step 28, strip the grey wire sheath back 2 or 3 inches to make life easier. strip about 1/4" off of the actual wires. when you loosen the screw at GND and IP3, you will not remove existing wires, just put the new ones up along side of them and re-tighten. the existing ones are bundled already.

at step 29. you can still hit the top of the gantry using the keypad, not a surprise. but the lights worked for me, so all was good.

overall, not counting the 2 trips to the hardware store, after getting the wrong size bit (thought it was 4mm for most, not 3mm), it took me about 2.5 hours, due to the few parts i had to take back apart, trying to work the short standard allen key in tight spots, and being nice when trying to feed the wire through the system.

aight, think that covers it. think that's enough extra stuff to think about.

oh, when you get the cover off the back of the machine, good chance to blow out the sawdust that has settled in there during your use. interesting to see how much ends up in there over time, good to remember to clean that out now and then.

---------------------------

so that's what happened for me.

now, talking to scott before hand, he mentioned to me NOT NOT NOT to move the gantry with the power off, as it may damage the circuit board. i would not have thought anything of it, as when i first brought it home, i turned it sideways to get it into the house, and had the gantry move half way, and everything was fine. how should this be handled, if and when you do have to move it? was it the same concern when moving the z axis by hand as well?

should there be a locking pin, say half way along the y axis, to help the gantry stay in place with traveling/shipping? i know some use the crate, and some use the packing foam from the crate, but a locking pin seems like a good idea. just have to remember to remove it before operating.

aight, can't think of anything else extra to add right now. if i think about it, will add it down the thread.

thanks folks, let me know what you think.

steve g.

scottp55
09-08-2014, 08:35 AM
Thanks again Steve for going over and above the call:) Makes me much more comfortable attempting from the chair! Going to hardware store now and going to buy TWO of the long ones.
Will probably do one MORE zebra inlay to see if there is any more deflection than the ones I did last week. Those are the most intricate and aggressive(on the inlay/male part) I've done in the recent past and should be a good test to put my mind at ease.
Once again, THANKS:)
scott

AndyPitts
09-08-2014, 01:25 PM
Thanks Steve G. I ordered the upgrade just this morning, so your post could not have been more timely. Andy

Chazz
09-09-2014, 10:05 PM
Is this upgrade something that we buy from Shopbot? If so, how much? I don't see any information of it on the website other than the new machines are 5.5" Z travel....

scottp55
09-09-2014, 10:12 PM
Chazz, This is from Kevin at Shopbot Tools. I'd give Dianne a call in the morning after you look at the .PDF and find out which Z-rail you have. Our 2 were $255 plus shipping.

Default
Hey guys!

It's Kevin from ShopBot here. One of the guys here just brought this thread to my attention. I know I'm not too active on here, but it's because I'm busy making new ShopBots most of the time.

SO- We have increased the travel on the desktop machines to 5.5" recently (from just a tad over 4"). All new machines are shipping with that upgrade as of a month or two ago.

I have a retrofit kit available for sale. The cost is between $245 and $255 depending on how old your desktop machine is. I've been waiting to sell it because I wanted to get the install document all sorted out to avoid phone calls, but it's pretty much done at this point.

It'll take between 20 minutes and a couple hours to install, depending on how familiar you are with the machine and how adept you are with tools. (it'd take me 20 minutes because I designed the machine and the kit. It'd take a first-timer up to a couple hours possibly).

If anyone is interested in the kit, send me an email at kevin (at) shopbottools.com or just call the office and ask for me. 919-680-4800

If, however, you want to go with something crazy like a 9" Z travel, you can get up with Max on that one for now.

In the future, if anyone EVER wants something custom on their ShopBot, we do that sort of thing in house. You'd be amazed at the stuff we've sold over the years. All you have to do is ask us- we rarely say no. Ryan is the man to talk to about custom tools. And believe me, he keeps busy with them....

scottp55
09-12-2014, 02:25 PM
:(
Started at 7AM resurfacing table, arranging all tools/parts, doing a weekly maintenance and making sure laptop and paper copy of .pdf and work areas were clean and got up to step 3 before my help arrived.
I have 20yrs of bicycle mechanic and motorcyles I've owned experience(from a Harley "Rapido" to my Beemer "R75\6 Ltd") and Mo is a M. Eng with 55 yrs experience of maintenance and assembly of high tech equipment the last of which was rebuilding Dad's vacuum furnace for CNC'ing Lithium(needed a new building to accommodate a 30'+ vertical press) and his 40 yrs of restoring antique cars. Just saying we've seen some stuff and aren't total Dweebs.
But the 2 upper bolts on step 7, page 7, defeated us. Granted we didn't have a percussion type impact wrench with an allen key adapter head (will be buying immediately), but we tried every trick in the book(and Mo taught me a couple):)
Mo thinks aluminum plate may have been galled slightly by an improperly set impact wrench as he's seen it before.
Got it back together, and as soon as I trammel, will be back where I was at 7AM.
Sent an e-mail 30 minutes ago to Shopbot(Dianne) requesting 8 new step 7 4mm bolts, plus spares for ever other bolt that is used in the upgrade (better safe than sorry and hardware and automotive stores around here are always "out of" or "don't carry" the exact thing you need). She just got back to me and they are on their way!
Great company and quite possibly just my August 20'th last year built Desktop, but the PrecisionTools 8" T-grip allen couldn't give enough sharp torque, and 2 brand new Eklinds rounded over, before 2 brand new Hardware store "drawer" type allen keys finally stripped one head beyond redemption.
Definitely buy a few GOOD wrenches and pay attention.
Quite possible to do from wheelchair, but nice to have an extra set of hands:)

scottp55
09-12-2014, 08:24 PM
Just got FedEX tracking info for my bolts, Tuesday:)
Got to love the customer support!
Thanks Marissa, Dianne and Kevin!

Chazz
09-12-2014, 09:24 PM
Thanks, I just checked and I seem to have the THK style of rails on all three directions. I will call Monday provided some drama doesn't inject itself into my life.

Questor
09-12-2014, 09:59 PM
Sorry to see you are having a rough time with it. Seems to be different bolts for different folks.

Now the question is: will you put it back together to play over the weekend, or leave it in pieces?

scottp55
09-13-2014, 10:46 AM
Hi Steve, My bolts won't be here till Tuesday. We stuck it back together while I had a spare pair of hands(getting spindle back on Z-Rail would have caused me a bit of trouble because of the wheelchair and my line of sight). Still have to align, but should be cutting today(favorite last words:) ).
How long was the 3mm long socket adapter you used? Graeme's kit is in transit to Oz and he's following this.
He said he had to dig a bit to find anything regarding moving gantry by hand and creating current to the board that can damage it. Possibly should be mentioned more for us Newbies? Maybe not as important for Desktops, but I can't imagine why we would different than the Big Guys-physics is physics.
Just sent a long e-mail to Graeme in response to some questions he had, might as well post it here.

Graeme,
Thinking in retrospect, I believe I could have loosened all four step 7 bolts, by seating Allen key firmly with gentle tap of a hammer on the key, and THEN 1 SHARP rap on the handle of the wrench with a small to medium METAL hammer(metal hammer important as the energy transfer has to be ABRUPT, with no cushioning effect) sadly wasn't aware I might need it and bolt rounded before I thought I might need it as the first 2 came out nice, and then it was too late for that method.
OK, checked wrenches, my T-handle is 7.75" long total and I need every bit of it if I leave the spindle power cord attached because of the T-grip. If a socket adapter Allen key then 5.25" would be great, but not totally necessary(mainly to help in re-assembly as the L-shape prevents wrench from being spun 360 degrees).
I only got to step 7 before having to re-assemble though. I inspected 3 mm tips and only 1 Eklind showed any wear at all.
I would still get;
2 3mm socket adapted Allen key, or regular 3mm Allen keys as high a quality as you can get
2 3mm (2 only because Steve broke one) Allen key socket adapter(longest you can get),or a T-handle with at Least 5.25 inch of Allen key before T-grip starts(magnetic tip on mine came in handy).
3 4mm (only because of my problem) socket adapted Allen key OR regular (high quality).

Keep your receipts as your particular Desktop may be different and maybe you can return unused ones. I'd pick up at same time, some type of removable ThreadLock ( funny, both Mo and I finally settled on and prefer PermaTex blue(medium strength) over the years, but it's a personal choice on brand). Compressed air, a toothbrush, and a lot of Good paper towels came in handy.
Steve's tip to keep screws separated according to the order removed was very useful as there Are several different lengths that are fairly close( I took it one step further and used a piece of carpet tape and just stuck the bolt heads to it-worked a charm).
Hope this helps.
What's spring like in Strathfieldsaye?
later,
scott

Thanks for all the tips Steve.:)

scottp55
09-13-2014, 10:57 AM
Oh! Just a note. I asked Dianne to make sure Graeme had the "Spare Bolts" shown on page 1 and if not to toss them in the package. Graeme's kit must have already shipped as yesterday PM he received a FedEx notification he had "Another" package arriving next Friday from Shopbot.
It must be his bolts, and I know from personal experience (shipped him some 1/8" 60degree VBits less than an ounce) that FedEx charges $50 for anything less than 1 pound. He received no billing from Shopbot!! Just the FedEx notification.
Way to go Shopbot!!!
Just one of the things that make you a great company!
Thanks,
scott:)

scottp55
09-20-2014, 04:20 PM
DONE!! :)
Thanks again for the tips Steve!
Between the great Shopbot .pdf, the pics, and your tips, My latent Dyslexia only kicked in once when I mounted the Z-axis nut block on the wrong side of the plate (Step 16). Made for some head scratching when, of course, the spindle only went 1/2 way down the rail. FOLLOW the Pics!
The 2 step 7 bolts that caused me grief, were STILL a pain even with the impact wrench Allen, but got 1 loose. The other one had just rounded over too much and I had peened it over 3 times with a drift and redriven the wrench and still no go. Finally remembered Kevin from Shopbot's tip that with 3 bolts out, and only one remaining, he sometimes had to use a soft face hammer on the plate itself and spin the plate to free it. It worked a charm!! 1/8" of a revolution and it was loose:)
Really neat to see the Z
Pasting a little from an other unrelated thread that was relevant.
Thanks Shopbot!!
Thanks Brady/G.
Unfortunately Brady, I got to read it after I was all finished as trying to get my helper back to HIS shop.
Good info! Can I copy/paste onto Z-Mod Thread?
Forgot about Galvanic but did Boeshield both plates and wiped off excess and used same rag to wipe back of spindle. Didn't Tail anything, but my Iron Age $1.69 Ace Hardware 1/8"X12" (.1238") brass rod from hobby section made a decent(for me) trammel. Used Starrett 12" rule from my square laid flat, got close, and Fixed moved down .01" at a time and got it pretty close.
Interesting was Fixed Move was abrupt enough to cause visible oscillation at the tip(9" away from spindle center). Then I set Fixed Mode to .005" and got all 4 points of the compass to where a fixed move up let it vibrate, and then a Fixed Move down dampened it.
Close enough and done for today.
Thanks again, and sorry to get off topic. Will post on Z-Mod thread.

Whew:)

scottp55
09-20-2014, 04:22 PM
A couple more.

Brady Watson
09-20-2014, 05:37 PM
Unfortunately Brady, I got to read it after I was all finished as trying to get my helper back to HIS shop.
Good info! Can I copy/paste onto Z-Mod Thread?

No problem - RE: Put a dollop of Never-Seize on the spindle plate to Z rail plate bolts to prevent bolts from being impossible to remove later on down the line.

If you have trouble getting the original bolts out because of galvanic action - and you rounded out the hex head on the screws, grind a slot in the bolt with a Dremel disc and use a hammer and flat screwdriver to impact it out. Put blade in slot at 9 o'clock position and smack it hard & quick. It may take a few times, but it will come out. Make sure you smack it so it will unscrew...not tighten.

-B

scottp55
09-20-2014, 05:57 PM
Original from Brady, Good advice on Never Seize Brady. Almost wants me to take it apart again...Almost:)
Slot was next trick, but luckily didn't have to. Yep, been 20 yrs since I owned an impact wrench, had to do a slow mo to make sure :)

Originally Posted by scottp55 View Post
NOT enough to worry about at ALL, but just about to go into shop to do the Z-Mod on the Desktop and wondering if there is anything special to look for while I've got all ripped apart?
Scott,
No worries.

How did you tram the Z when you put it on? I use the tail of a digital caliper to check spindle to spindle plate parallel and then use a dial indicator against the spindle mounting plate and run it up & down to see if/where it is out - then adjust accordingly. It's a little time consuming - but it's one of those things that will shoot you in the foot until you get it *perfect*.

A word to the wise - for anyone doing the longer Z - put a dab of Never-Seize on the Z to spindle mounting plate or they will lock up on you. I had to grind a slot in 2 of mine & then impact them out with a screwdriver & hammer. Galvanic action of steel to aluminum is rough...

-B

scottp55
09-21-2014, 10:13 AM
Thanks Steve G. for mentioning "drop-in T-nuts", If I had those I'd be tempted to remove spoilboard and "trammel" to my extrusions.

Brady, I just spent all night replacing the the carbide inserts an a 4" diameter milling head on a granite reference table with a dial indicator for Dad's first company start up Soleras. Took me Hours to get it "Perfect"--THEN I WOKE UP!!:) Thanks a bunch!!
Did that back in '82! for this wee beastie. Worked in Dad's shop a few times during winters when bicycle sales were "a tad slow".

I like the Desktop better:) But now I have to double check yesterdays alignment with a brass rod and an MDF spoilboard and I'm already beat from working all night:)

AndyPitts
09-23-2014, 05:36 PM
I just finished the 5.5" Z upgrade and have a couple of things to add to the thread.

First, using WD-40 and then giving the screws a good tap with a tack hammer made it so all of them came out fine and were reusable.

Second, in step 10 all three of my screws were 16mm. When I got to step 17 I could not figure out how to attach the z proximity switch target screw, since there were no threads available in the nut block. I called SB and talked to Jeremy. Turns out, one of the screws is supposed to be 12mm, leaving 4mm of threads in the nut block for the target screw. I temporarily made a spacer so I could use the old 16mm screw and get the machine back to work, and SB is sending me the correct 12mm screw. I also noted that the photo in step 17 is the "before" configuration, which had me scratching my head a bit.

Third, in step 20 I also found that I could not slide the spindle mounting plate onto the carriage plate with the z-proximity switch installed. I ended up removing the z motor and lead screw in order to install the proximity switch after sliding the spindle plate in place. I did have to turn the lead screw, and hence the z motor to unthread the anti-backlash nut, but turned it slowly so as to not generate enough voltage to damage the control circuits. It worked OK and there was no damage.

Fourth, in step 28 I found it easier to tin the wires with solder before trying to stick them into the ground and IP3 holes. The solder made the wires stiff.

Finally, I had to exercise the new z-proximity switch quite a bit to keep it from sticking in the "on" position. After getting it to work reliably, the "3" light on SB3 would come on at the top of travel, but the z motor would not stop using the keyboard. I had thought the purpose of the z- proximity switch was to stop the motor before it topped out, but perhaps I am wrong about that, or maybe the keyboard overrides the auto stop function. Or, maybe there is something else I have to do to make the motor stop automatically. Any thoughts from someone more knowledgeable would be appreciated.

Andy

p.s. In another thread a contributor noted that my z motor was very noisy during the z-zero operation ... he heard it in one of my YouTube videos. I called SB and talked with Scott, who told me how to fix that problem. While the electronics enclosure was off for the z mod, I removed the control board and reset the potentiometers on the drivers (phillips screw with a flat on it in the lower right corner of each driver) fully clockwise to the "5:30 o'clock" stop then backed off to "5 o'clock" positions. SB had found the sweet spot for these pots and that is where I set them before carefully putting everything back together (the control board must align with all the pins on the drivers). What a difference it made! My machine now is nice and smooth, and the steppers run much cooler than they had.

scottp55
09-23-2014, 06:13 PM
Andy, The Z-Prox SHOULD stop up motion when held down continuously in Keypad mode (it should hit prox and bounce down just a hair, but should simply stop even with your finger still on the up arrow), BUT if you tap the up arrow then it is possible(if you watch the input light it will flicker) to hit the prox and further manual taps will allow you to "Hard Stop".
Also (if you haven't already) do a TS (ToolSetup) and on the second page, check the box "I have Z proximity switch".
It will Mod your Z-Zero routine so that it taps plate twice, raises to safe Z for a second, then raises to upper prox and retracts .125"(great for putting dust foot on) and also when you C3 in the morning it will prompt you if you want to use last saved Z, which is upperZ prox minus the 1/8".
Yep, step 17 pic threw me too:)
I took off prox ala Steve notes and didn't put it back on till last(only got 1 screw, but used a dab of superglue gel as that was how Shopbot installed my first(optional factory) Z-Prox. Didn't have to mess with any wires at all:) as my original worked fine.
Kinda neat having the extra Z--Didn't think I'd notice the difference as much as I do:)

Brady Watson
09-23-2014, 07:36 PM
...the "3" light on SB3 would come on at the top of travel, but the z motor would not stop using the keyboard.

In SB3, type VN and select to Turn Limits On.

-B

AndyPitts
09-24-2014, 09:41 AM
Scott and Brady,
Thank you very much. The VN setting made the Z movement stop at the new Z prox switch, and the TS setting made the C2 routine end at the top of the travel, minus 1/8" just like you said. That will make the dust boot installation much easier.

Andy

Chazz
06-21-2015, 06:51 AM
I just finished most of my upgrade yesterday. I still have yet to hook up the z-limit switch wire to the controller.

I have the router version and found that, once together, my alignment was way off. I happened to have just resurfaced my spoiler the day before which was handy. However, I basically had to take it all apart again. This is when I noticed that I could unbolt the router with everything else left in place. By extending the router to its lowest Z position, all four bolts securing it to the "spindle mounting plate" were accessible from the back of the desktop. So, I removed the router, then re-uninstalled the Spindle Mounting Plate. At this point, I was able to use my square to the left (from the front) edge of the Carriage Plate and adjust the true-ness of it. I could then re-mount the Spindle Mounting Plate; but I wasn't able to adjust it as the screws for that adjustment were blocked. It was off by a tiny bit (which means that some day I will take it apart and re-adjust) but for now I just pressed on. Then I could mount the router and use the square on that when tightning. All-in-all, the adjustments could have been done as I went; but I was following the instructions as printed...

About the Z Limit Switch... I had to take it off and re-mount. I went to Lowes to get a longer M3x40 screw and ran it through from the back for the right hole (from the front). I used this to help get the position correct and then tighten down the mounting screw through the left hole (from the front). Then I had to remove the screw that I put in from the back because its head got in the way of another part. If I could have found a m3x40 set screw, I would have left it in (from the back) to continue to support the position of the sensor.

Note to designers: If you made the Z Limit Switch printed circuit board a bit longer (I would swag it at about 3/4") and made the second support screw further to the right so we could get to it from the front, it would make this a bit easier and increase the clearance between it and the backlash spring when it was at top-Z. Just a thought.