Cheap China v-bit

[Call-Tech]

Yes I know I should be using good bits but unfortunately right now money is tight and $50 bits are not in my budget... So I had to try the $4 6x22mm 60 degree v-bits from China. Well I have not been impressed with them for v-carving, however I surprised myself today by trying something different. I had a piece of 25 year old red oak that has been sitting up in the rafters of my shop for all these years and I thought maybe I would try and do something with it. I took the smallest piece and made a 3D file of a rose. its 2"x3" and at that size my smallest ball nose (1/8") just did not give any detail. So I thought I wonder if you can do 3D with a v-bit?? Well damn if it did not surprise me. took 10 minutes to run one single finish path with the 6x22mm 60 degree v-bit and turned out pretty damn good. I ran a 1% stepover and 2.5 ipm x, y and Z.

Now seeing that I am so cheap... I have not had much experience, hardly any infact with hardwoods. Is this better finish, (better than anything I have ever done) because of my weird bit selection or because of the density of the oak?

[Call-Tech]

Same file cut in pine. Maybe people use v-bits for 3D all the time?? I've had my bot for 7 years and things changed after I got it. It sat unused other than cutting wood and plastic panels. Now I'm starting all over again and relearning everything with regards to 3D and inlays. All i had was endmills, so need many types of bits and the good ones are just too much money to practice on and risk destroying them before I get this all figured out again. Figured I had nothing to lose by experimenting. I just replaced my plenum, spoil board and resurfaced my table. Everything is working much better than when I first set it up. I'm getting better everyday now that I have time to spend on it. Its slow progress with the junk bits and scrap wood i'm playing with. I never know if my poor results are from something i did in file creation or the bits and speeds i'm using. I will just keep trying. :)

[scottp55]

Fred, Glad you're playing around, probably one of the best ways to learn new things:)
If you had gone with a 5-8% stepover you would have noticed the reason immediately(unless your bit was an engraver or had a small flat on it).
Like you money is tight here,but usually you do get what you pay for I've found(especially in BallNoses).
I've used this guy several times and he's always been EXTREMELY prompt on shipping, Just bought several different angles on these engraving/scoring bits in 1/8" shank and have to say that for $4 they cut as clean as anything I've used this past year. Only used on Padauk/Purpleheart/Quilted/and Claro and only on buttons so far this week, but I like them and pretty cheap to play with.
Keep playing! Looks good.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=drillman1&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR8.TRC2.A0.H0.Xengrav ing+bits&_nkw=engraving+bits&_sacat=0

[Call-Tech]

I just received a 1/4" 30 degree scoring cutter from that same seller a couple days ago. It works great on Sintra, but 30 degrees is too steep of angle. I'm going to order some of his 45 degree bits and try them. The 30 was exactly what I was looking for, for cutting small letters in plastic, but it cut a little too deep and I did not want to have it clearance the bottom of the letters. I loved the quality of the 30 degree bit thou, it was head and shoulders above the china stuff. I'm just glad I found a use for the china bits I purchased. Honestly I think they would be good bits if they were sharpened. I have a diamond hone somewhere but have not been able to find it over last few days. The V-cutters come to a nice point and the point is right where it should be, they just don't seem to be sharp enough on the edges for good clean v-carving.

[scottp55]

Yes Fred , Good to deal with, Kyocera 45's cut all the woods mentioned very well(first cut looks like Fuzzy Central, BUT second cut and the wood looks burnished!). I got 6 of the 45's last week, and just cleaned him out of the 1/8" 60's(should be here Monday). $4.50 and the next several sellers were selling the same thing for $10.50.
Only using .1" of the tip right now so can't see using a high price .25" shank bit.

[Call-Tech]

that looks great Scott, I have exhausted my bit funds for this week anyway. Laughs, I'm sure he will have more instock by the time I'm ready to buy.

[POPS 64]

Fred this is how you learn and the forum is one of the best teachers and info .When 3-D carving oak isn't the best choice it's to stringy. Tight grain hardwoods will give the best results . Good luck Jeff

[kurt_rose]

I use Chinese bits all the time. 10 1/8th" ball nose bits for $20 is hard to beat. They absolutely have a place in my arsenal. There are times though where a really good quality bit is a must. For V-bits I have kinda taken a liking to CMT laser points. Usually get them from Amazon.

[Call-Tech]

Jeff, I don't have much available to me at the moment in terms of materials. However I have to admit that I am not very knowledgeable about different kinds of woods. How do I learn about different types of woods and what works well for what? such as I really want to try doing some inlays, however I have no dark wood. Once money picks up again, I have a mill about 20 miles from me that has just about everything. I haven't been there in 20 years but I hear they are still in same place.

Kurt, I have ordered some of those 1/8 round nose, 5 packs I think and am awaiting delivery. I will take a look at the CMT laser points, I have had a few CMT bits in the past and seems I remember liking them.


PS.. I just looked up that mill, Armstrong Millworks Highland MI

looked at their wood list and I would not have a clue which woods to try and work with and what to make from them.

Domestic Woods:
Alder 4/4 8/4
White Ash 4/4 6/4 8/4 12/4
Basswood 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4 16/4
Beech 4/4
Birch 4/4 8/4
Red Birch 4/4
Sap Birch 4/4
Butternut 4/4
Aromatic Red Cedar 4/4
Cherry 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4
Cypress 4/4 5/4 8/4
Hickory 4/4 6/4 8/4
Kentucky Coffee Tree 4/4
Soft Maple 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4
Hard Maple 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4
Red Oak 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4
White Oak 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4
Sassafras 4/4
Yellow Poplar 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4 16/4
#2 Common Sugar Pine 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4
Walnut 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 12/4
Birdseye Maple 4/4
Curly Birch 4/4 Subject to availablility
Curly Hard Maple 4/4 Subject to availablility
Curly Soft Maple 4/4 Subject to availablility
Curly Cherry 4/4 Subject to availablility
Curly Red Oak Subject to availablility
Curly Hickory Subject to availablility
Red Oak Rift 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4
White Oak Qtr Sawn 4/4 5/4 8/4
White Oak Rift 4/4 5/4

Exotic Woods
Benge 4/4
Black Limba 4/4
Bloodwood 4/4
Brazilian Cherry 4/4 5/4 8/4
Bubinga 4/4 8/4
Canary Wood 4/4
European Beech 4/4
Figured Bubinga 8/4
Goncalo Alves 4/4
Iroko 4/4 8/4
Lacewood 4/4 8/4
Leopardwood/Brazilian 4/4
African Mahogany 4/4 5/4 8/4 12/4
Genuine Mahogany 4/4 6/4 8/4 12/4 16/4
Philippine Mahogany 4/4 8/4 12/4
Padauk 4/4 8/4
Pau Amarella 4/4
Pommele Bubinga 8/4
Purple Heart 4/4 8/4
Bolivian Rosewood 4/4
Spanish Cedar 4/4
Teak 4/4 8/4
Wenge 4/4 8/4
Zebrawood 4/4 8/4

[Brian Harnett]

11 years ago when I got my bot I got a set of eagle America V bits I still have all of them I have sharpened them a few times but they paid for themselves and are made in America not very expensive either.

[Burkhardt]

I did some extensive comparison testing with a variety of bits last January and posted the results HERE (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18914). Included were some Amana, Kyocera, Whiteside, CMT and China/Ebay.

The cheap China bits did actually very well when used with the proper strategy. The CMT cut quite well, too but my 60 degree CMT bit has a horrific angle error. It may be a Monday lemon but 55.6 degrees instead of 60 is pretty bad. All other bits, even the cheap ones had very accurate angles better than +/-0.5 degrees.

My lesson for deep V-carve cuts (say > 1/2"): I must rough down in moderate steps with significant skin left on because some bits are better than others, but generally the waterlines are unavoidable. For roughing the bit should have a tip radius for least tear-out. After that the finish cut to be done with a large sharp-tipped bit in a single depth step cut to clean up.

[bobmoore]

Whatever bits you buy, do yourself a favor and buy a 10x loupe to inspect your resharpened bits. There is a huge difference in grind quality from 1 sharpener to the next. your cut quality will be directly impacted.
Bob

[scottp55]

Fred, looks like you've got a good wood supplier close by. I'd start with Cherry,Black Walnut, and Maple(Maple "Fuzzies" are bad, so run toolpath until you are satisfied BEFORE you take it off machine and it will save you HOURS of sanding-Write a second toolpath with a 90% deeper pass depth and twice(or more) your original X,Y,Z move speeds for the clean up passes.
For exotics, I personally Love Padauk,Bloodwood, and now Purpleheart.
One thing I have noticed is that for a "busy" design--go a "plain wood" as the highly figured wood figure just disappears in the design, and for "plain and simple" designs-- use the "Busy-Highly Figured" woods, as It's very difficult to beat Mother Nature at her best.

[Brian Harnett]

Whatever bits you buy, do yourself a favor and buy a 10x loupe to inspect your resharpened bits. There is a huge difference in grind quality from 1 sharpener to the next. your cut quality will be directly impacted.
Bob

Thats why I sharpen my own stuff, the shops take off way too much material the difference between sharp and dull is a very small amount.

[Call-Tech]

Thank you for all the input on various bits. I bought some diamond stones to try my hand at sharpening my own. Works great on straight flat edges.

Thanks Scott for the wood info, I'll be sure to try some of those as soon as I can get over to the mill. I'll need a pocket full of money, the last time I was there it was like a candy store. LOL

[Brady Watson]

Works great on straight flat edges.


Works great on straight & V-bits too...Soapy water + rubby rubby = sharpy sharpy. (Unless you have chunks missing from the edge)

-B

[Call-Tech]

I'm embarrassed to say how badly I screwed up all my initial bits that I got with my bot. Live and learn... Don't use deck screws to hold down spoil board! even counter sunk, you reach them eventually. They are not repairable. Lost a few more spirals to wrong speeds and feeds.. did not know carbide could burn to the point of destruction... They Can! I have not killed any bits in a long time, but sure did in allot of very expensive bits in the beginning.

[Xray]

I've been to Armstrong quite a few times, their stash of wood is quite amazing.
For 3D some of the best is purple heart, walnut and padauk. All very dense wood, shapes extremely well and not too expensive [as far as exotics go]. Wenge is nice too, but a plank of that is a wallet buster for sure. Zebra wood is cool, but due to its wild variation in grain which is its hallmark, many subjects look way too "busy" using it. I have planks of it sitting waiting for a use, hard to find suitable subjects.
Cocobolo and bocote top my exotic favs, both very expensive and hard to find.

Rocklers/Woodcraft also often have a nice selection of exotic and domestic planks, sometimes you do go into sticker shock rummaging through the planks, other times you feel you are getting a great deal ... And keep in mind good old poplar and cedar from home depots can also be very good options for 3D, but just don't get any plank, look for attractive grain patterns.

Pictured below is a 3D gun & matching base I recently did in purpleheart. Wouldn't try it with a vbit ,,, Is about 10x7", took about 2.5 hours using a .125 tapered ballnose.