Replace your radios

[dmidkiff]

Most of you know that I don't post very often, but wanted to share. Friday Sept. 26th I lost my shop and shop-bot to a fire. It destroyed everything in a few minutes.(seemed like forever) The insurance company brought in an independent investigator to find the cause. He determined that it was the radio that comes on with the lights and goes off with the lights. It was old and could have been replaced, but I had to get all of the good out of it. So please, if you have old radios in your shop replace them. It is cheap insurance.

Tried to up load a pic but not sure it worked.
On the bight side, I will most likely update the shop-bot and other tools.
I get to plan a new building. It might even start out as clean as Andrews.;) It will be a miracle if I can keep it that way.:o

I would like to get some input on a building. I am thinking steel with a wood floor. Would like info on insulation, heating and cooling, and dust collection.

Would like radiant heat, but not sure it will work with a wood floor.

Am thinking about the spray foam insulation.

Would like to run the dust collection in the floor.

[barrowj]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss, I would go with the radiant and a steel building. I know there are options to use it in wood floors but would have to research it. I think Spray Foam insulation would burn faster and hotter than fiberglass but you would have to verify that.

I hope that everything works out. Now I need to think about upgrading my insurance policy, been quite awhile since I did that.

[garyr6]

WOW, I'm going over ever inch of my operation.
You have my sympathy for your loss.

[Studio-N]

dang, sorry for your loss. As long as everyone was safe that's what's important.
Let us know if there is anything we can help with.

[paul_z]

Sorry about your loss. It can be as if you lost an old friend.

I would suggest you rethink putting the dust collection in the floor. If it gets a "good" clog, it may be very difficult to clean out.

Paul Z

[Brady Watson]

I'm really sorry to see this Dave. I'm glad you are OK and not hurt - other than the non-physical parts. I'm glad it wasn't caused by leaving the machine unattended while running the DC or vacuum hold down - although this may be a great time for you 'older folk' to give up 8-track and at least move on to CD :p

Others should take heed that there have been MANY fires started by leaving the machine unattended - the bit dwells long enough to burn and the vacuum just sucks fire into the entire vac system. It is ugly...know your tool & take nothing for granted.

-B

[lrheimpel]

Sorry to hear about your loss. But it seems you get a chance to start over!

[POPS 64]

Sorry for your loss , for your money steel building can't be beat , and with were located spray foam can't be beat. My house I got rid of a couple of years ago the shop was divided into two sides one finished drywalled with 6" insulation and when it got hot the metal made it unbearable . The other side we lined the walls with 3" styrofoam like throwaway beer cooler material very inexpensive then sprayed 2" of foam and drywalled . Best money ever spent on the shop no matter how hot it got shop never got over 75 again . Jeff :D

[dmidkiff]

Yes Joe and Gary, definitely check out your policies and equipment. Seems that policies change over time. I will be doing research for the fire resistance of the foam. I think the foam is the best insulation you can use.

Thanks Paul, million things running through this head. Not all is getting filtered now.

No one was injured in the fire and no fire fighters were hurt. Just exhausted from the heat of fire and gear they have to wear and dragging the heavy hose. First responders everywhere, thank you!!! And thank you Studio-N for the kind offer. Hopefully I will not have to ask for that kind of help.

Brady, I had upgraded from 8 track to cassette.:D And yes I have been guilty of leaving the shop-bot running while not in the shop, including vacuum and dust collection. Thankfully not this time.

Clean-up started today but already had a lightening delay. Not much done. Maybe later.

[dlcw]

Dave, I am so sorry for your loss. But, like you said, you get to start over and put it all together YOUR way. Fire is the one thing that I always worry about in my shop.

As a volunteer firefighter I see all kinds of destruction from fire to businesses, out buildings, houses, cars and numerous other things, not to mention the wildland fires we get all summer.

For all of you who live in a rural area, the best advice I can give as a firefighter is to make sure your access roads are wide and clear for fire apparatus to navigate. If you can afford it, try and have a large open area near the shop that engines and tendors can stage in to fight a fire. Open areas and limited access are this biggest hindrance to firefighters getting to you as fast as they can.

If you live in an urban area, make sure firefighters have unrestricted, easy to navigate, wide paths to your shop in case something like what happened to Dave happens to you. Stopping it at the shop will keep it from becoming a major burn as surrounding structures torch off from radiant heat. Have seen this many time over the years.

Again, Dave, I am so sorry for your loss. Very glad know one was hurt. And yes, firefighting is EXHAUSTING work, especially when it's hot outside, dressed in full turn-out gear with air bottles. A firefighter is hauling around an extra 60lbs of stuff, on their back, while handling a hose that could way as much as 7lbs per foot of length. Most attack lines are about 150-200 feet long. LOTs of weight!

[dmidkiff]

Luis, Yes I do get a chance to start fresh and make things a little better or at least different. Insulation is one of the improvements I want to make.

Jeff, I really would like the shop to stay cool in the summer and am leaning towards the spray foam.

[MogulTx]

Dave,

Very sorry to hear of your loss. As to heat: I have a metal building. I did not insulate. Was a bad idea. I added to the shop last year and DID insulate it... VERY noticeable difference. Definitely insulate.

If you would be willing to consider them, I used Mueller Metal Buildings. They have pre-figured plans. And can have you a kit set up in a couple weeks. Then you'd need a crew to erect it. If it were me, I would go with concrete floor, metal building, HIGH eave height ( 10-12'. You will thank me later) and insulate it. I would also put in "skylight" panels in predetermined places. They make a huge difference in lighting without ever using the lights. And buy MORE than you think you want. It is not really expensive- and you WILL want it in a couple years.

Good luck. ( Do you want us all to be looking out for any particular size and type of machine? -Shopbot, of course-- Maybe we can watch the local craigs lists and news papers, etc. Especially those of us in TX, so it would be "pretty close" to you? LA and MS wouldn't be too distant from you, either.)

All the best on your rebuild.

Monty

[zeykr]

Cost out going to 18' sidewalls. When I built, it didn't add near as much as making a larger footprint building and you can build a mezzanine type second floor for storage or workspace.

[dmidkiff]

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Thanks for your service Don. The firefighters that came here are all my neighbors and are all volunteer. Just getting off work as the call went out about 4:45pm. They had 2 trucks here and called for aid from a near by town that have 1 or 2 full time guys. They were planning to stay all night because the hardwood and plywood racks were still burning. Flamed most of the night. Had sprinkler on to prevent escape, although all was gone for several feet outside the perimeter. It was so hot that 2 trees in front caught fire. Had to call them back at 11:30pm for the trees. They weren't here long but had to fill truck and rack hoses to be ready for next fire. There were 3 other fires in the county that these same guys responded to as mutual aid that weekend. Awesome bunch!!!

Monty, Mueller has a planner on line and I got a quote last night. Am looking at other avenues as well to get more bang for my buck. Not sure about sky lights as I have replaced a few in the past. Not sure I want the maintenance issue. Great minds think alike, I do want high ceilings. Old shop was 12'. It would be very kind of anyone to help me watch for a new/used shop-bot. I won't be ready for one for a while.

Ken, I may try that.

[bleeth]

A real shame Dave. You're attitude is terrific. Not sure I would be seeing the silver lining as quickly.
Out of curiosity and for my own long range planning I found this "quick and short" comparison to insulated foam panels:

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/tool-guide/articles/insulation-rigid-foam.aspx

I used 1 1/2" in a houseboat remodel between the bottom deck and a finished floor in Seattle some years ago and you could walk around the floor in the winter in your bare feet and not feel the cold below.

Nice thing is the fireproof varieties available.

I concur with the 18' walls. High ceilings and air movement really make a difference when it's hot, although obviously heating that many additional cubics is the flip side. I had suspended fan blown gas heating in a shop up there and it not only heated the place up quick it kept the air inside from getting too dry. It was one similar to this (not recommending the Dayton-just for example although it may be a fine unit):

http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Gas-Unit-Heater-WP14784/_/N-m3b?redirect=Gas+Unit+Heater&s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/4LX56_AS01?$smthumb$

[dmidkiff]

Dave thanks for the links on insulation, I will study that and make a good decision. As far as the attitude, even though this is a life changing event, there are others that are far worse off than me. My family and I are okay and we still have a place to sleep and stay safe.

Clean-up resumed yesterday, and most of the big stuff is at salvage yard. Sad that all the equipment and roof tin was reduced to around $500.00. Just more for the building fund. Now to sift though to find hand tools, router bits, hinges and slides.

[cr2]

Dave, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Would you mind telling us some details on your insurance....company, your distance from a fire hydrant, coverage, cost, any other pertinent details? My insurance just went up 4x so I'm shopping around for another company. They tend to freak out that I'm in the country and more than 1000 feet from a fire hydrant, although we have a 15 acre pond only 450 ft. away.

[Burkhardt]

Hm, makes me think of my practice leaving the lithium batteries for the hand drill and driver in the charger all the time until I need them again. They are supposedly O.K. for that but besides the possibility of the charger malfunctioning, the batteries themselves are known to have caused fires. Ask Boeing....

[pkirby]

Dave,
I'm really sorry to hear about your shop. I just built a new shop and have been paranoid about fires, especially after a guy's shop that I knew that burned down in the middle of the night because of a short in the table saw. So as a safeguard, I installed a Safety Switch (see pic below) which basically is a large switch that I use to kill all the power to the shop when I'm not using it. It's a lot easier to flip the big switch instead of turning off all the breakers. If you do flip the breakers, be careful because most breakers are not rated as "switch duty". In other words, multiple switching can cause them to malfunction and not trip if they become overloaded. But you can buy "switch duty" breakers if you want.

21953

[dmidkiff]

Charlie, the insurance coverage I had was not commercial. It should have been. At the time I could not go with commercial ins. The adjusters were great and said nothing about being rural. They did ask how long it took for the first truck to get here. I think the distances from hydrant vary from state to state. I think one of the firefighters said something about the number of gallons available and they brought 3 trucks. One shuttled water to the others. The shuttle tanker made several trips and was traveling 8 to 10 miles one way to refill. We have a community well just over 1000' away but the pumps will not keep up so the FD plans for that and will only use the community water if desperate and then only once. The do excellent work. If they had been here when I first saw the fire, the building would have been a total loss any way. Some of the contents (might) have been saved.

G, you may be onto something. I was not in the habit of leaving my batteries on the charger but sometimes did leave them over night. I think the batteries last longer when not on charge all the time.

Paul, that sounds like an excellent idea. I will ask my electrician about safety switch when the time comes. Will also install surge protection because we get a lot of lightening strikes in the area.