Lamello Zeta P2 & Clamex connectors

[Ajcoholic]

Not sure if any of the cabinet makers here besides me have (or have been looking) at the Lamello Clamex system of KD connectors..?

I finally took the plunge after about 2 years and bought the machine and a bunch of the different sizes of connectors.

If you are not familiar with the system, you should check this out.

http://www.lamello.com/en/home/join-wood/p-system/clamex-p-15.html

I can see this being incorporated in a lot of my work in the shop. One of those things I probably should have gotten sooner but there are so many things on my "list" lol

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[Plyoboxwarehouse]

So how much was that bad boy?

[Ajcoholic]

Well, the machine retails in Canada for $1850 with the diamond tipped cutter, and $200 less for the carbide one. I bought it through a Canadian Lamello importer in Alberta (Ibex Industries) who sold the machine to me with the diamond cutter and the Systainer box for $1650.

I have used a genuine Lamello biscuit machine since I was a teenager (on my 4th unit, a Top 20 I bought in 2010 for $1100) and they are top notch. We lost our original one in a fire, and wore out the armature on a second one after 20 years of daily use. I left the other behind in my old shop when I sold it in 2010.

The Clamex is going to be a game changer I believe in the way I approach a lot of things in the shop. The connectors are not cheap (almost $2 pc) but in the big picture not a big deal. I just did a job using Zip bolt connectors I paid more per unit than the Clamex, and they are slow to install. The Clamex is as fast as you can put in a regular biscuit. Plus they have sizes that allow use in as thin as 1/2" material and as narrow as 2 3/8".

And all you see is a 4mm hole for the access to tighten. And angles are a no brainer.

[jTr]

Andrew - have been curious about those machines for a while.
I assume you primarily bought it for the closet/RTA applications, as you stated a while back you're delving more into that work due to demand. Like anything else, I'm sure you're right - more opportunities to use this method of assembly will present themselves once you get rolling.
By the way, how is that edgebander treating you? It's been a handful of months - wondering if it's living up to expectations.

Thanks for sharing!

Jeff

[Ajcoholic]

Jeff,
I did buy the new Lamello machine to allow KD assembly of panels. I'm just starting to get a few jobs lined up so it spurred me to order the machine.

That being said I can see many uses for this system in my work. It's just so easy to join anything you can get a biscuit in. And it's fast, allows a bit of adjustment laterally and is strong. The cost is the only drawback compared to something like the rafix or Blum connectors. Time will tell how it works for me.

As for the Cantek edge bander, it has worked really well. I have several jobs where I used it to apply several hundreds of feet of my own msnufactured 1/8" thick solid wood edging. Also I used it to edge about a thousand feet plus of HPL strips onto solid wood. Also worked very well. I've only done a few melamine jobs but it is super for that stuff. Completely eliminates any hand work.

Since I'm a custom shop and I have been doing a lot of other work besides cabinets ( a lot of millworker, several tables, two stair and railing jobs, other furniture) in the past few months it's not running hard. But when I need it, it certainly is very fast and performs well. So far so good!

Some other work lined up in the future will test more of the melamine side of things.

The other thing I like about this bander is it heats up fast. For small work it's handy, even to edge a few PCs of work. I'm hoping to get a hand held bander in the future for curved work. If things go as planned.

[Ajcoholic]

Just showing what the clamex connectors can be used for - today I took advantage of the holiday to go into the shop and make a few shelves for my sons room. I used blue and yellow 18mm Egger melamine. All the joints including the backs were assembled using the Lamello Clamex KD fittings. They work great! I did end up putting a few of them (4) on the wrong side of my line (chalk it up to trying to go too quickly) but other than that I brought everything home flat and just assembled in the room. Sweet!

I have a closet to do soon, I will post pics, it will also be assembled on site.

Andrew

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[jTr]

Thanks for the examples- simple and practical. This machine just got bumped up a little higher on my wish list.

jeff

[Ajcoholic]

Thanks for the examples- simple and practical. This machine just got bumped up a little higher on my wish list.

jeff

It really is a slick way to join stuff. I tried some examples of other KD fittings, but without a dedicated boring machine, and a means to accurately put the dowels in, it is hard to line things up. Also, with the Lamello unit you just have that small 6mm hole that allows access with the Allen wrench. You barely notice them, and you can choose which side of the panel the hole goes on.

If you see the lower bookshelf, where the shelves meet the gable in the same place - that is where you use the special connector that goes from both sides into the same location.

The only down side of the system is that you need to keep the slot positions and faces you reference from, straight in your mind. I went a bit too fast and missplaced a few of them. For a paying job I would take a little more time and not make a mistake. :)

The connectors really hold well. Much stronger than I anticipated.

[Ajcoholic]

So I thought I;d update this fairly old thread with some feedback on the Clamex system, after using it for the better part of a year.

I love it! I have done some smaller jobs where I've used several hundred connectors - but recently just completed (ysterday) a large walk in closet which was all done in white 3/4" melamine, and used over 500 connectors. All the gables were single meaning no double gables as in standard cabinets. I used 3 or 4 connectors per shelf, depending upon the depth. The system really works, and by making assembly jigs to position the Zeta machine, the cutting of the grooves went surprisingly quickly. In all the connectors cut, I only missplaced two - which were fixed up and youd never know.

Here are some pics of the completed job. 36 full 4x8 sheets of melamine - almost a thousand feet of 1mm edging. Thats a large melamine job since I usually work in wood.

I did cut the curved corner shelving on my Shopbot, and edged with my newish Cantek (Lematic) portable glue pot edge bander. Once you get the hang of it, it works pretty darn well.

Sharp eyes will notice the hanging bars are missing the radiused corner/joiner - and the room was SO out of whack in terms of the floor and walls being out of plumb, humped etc we did our best to install everything true but you will notice some variences. Its an older home and the owners didnt want to go to the trouble of shimming and straightening the floor and walls (I would have). The owners will finish caulking and trimming out the rest of the room.

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[Ajcoholic]

The other thing was, with the exception of the drawer boxes which were assembled, the whole job was delivered flat pack and at close to 4000 pounds, it was much easier to carry up the stairs and into the room off the master bedroom (with a narrow door) all flat panels.

The pull out tray sides and fronts, and crown trim were machined from American Poplar (whitewood) and lacquered in white post cat.

[Brady Watson]

That's a nice piece of kit. I was curious about how the tool created the double undercut channel...Very clever!

-B

[Ajcoholic]

That's a nice piece of kit. I was curious about how the tool created the double undercut channel...Very clever!

-B

Its a mechanical/electronic system - the blade oscillates up and down (quite quickly) at the end of the stroke. There is a plunger that triggers the mechanism when you first cut the slot, at the end of the stroke. Then it immediately jumps up/down and you can retract the blade.

I have found that in hardwoods, you have to watch how fast you plunge the cutter in, as if you let the machine bog down it delays the oscillation. Slow steady feed works great, you just have to listen to the machine and get used to how fast to feed.

In particle core veneer or melamine it can go almost as fast as you can go.

This machine is one, to me, similar to when you first get the CNC router. It takes a while to start using it for more and more jobs, and then you realize you should have gotten one sooner! I am finding more and more uses for the Clamex. In many types of work and in many different materials, and situations.

[myxpykalix]

It's funny how our priorities change as we get older...We used to get excited over a hot girl, then it was a hot car, now it's a hot tool. Are you considered a tool hoarder when you buy tools and leave them in the box...or forget you have "one of those" and go buy another because you can't find it?
AJ that looks like a neat tool...nothing i would ever need but i'm sure you'll get plenty of use out of it.

[Ajcoholic]

It's funny how our priorities change as we get older...We used to get excited over a hot girl, then it was a hot car, now it's a hot tool. Are you considered a tool hoarder when you buy tools and leave them in the box...or forget you have "one of those" and go buy another because you can't find it?
AJ that looks like a neat tool...nothing i would ever need but i'm sure you'll get plenty of use out of it.

Lol I still get excited about a few of those things... Cars not so much :). I'm more of a truck guy.

As far as tool "hoarding" no thanks. I buy tools to allow me to make $$ and do things faster, better and maximize my time and therefore profits.

Everything's an investment in my business and part of a long term plan. After selling and rebuilding my shop/business it has taken several years to get here but I'm very happy with the way things are going.

There's no hidden stash of tools in my shop. The only things I buy from time to time that are more for "me" vs the company are pocket knives and hand planes. Other than that everything gets used!

[jTr]

Andrew,
Just curious - what software do you use for kitchen/bath/closet modeling and planning? Also- we recently had a discussion on lacquer- which product did you use for the trim?


Jeff

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew,
Just curious - what software do you use for kitchen/bath/closet modeling and planning? Also- we recently had a discussion on lacquer- which product did you use for the trim?


Jeff

I use the ole' noggin, and pencil and graph paper... lol. I have subscribed to Mozaik for a year now but I have not had the time to learn it well enough to put to use. I tried a 3 month trial of KCD a few years ago but also had not enough time to devote to learning the software. It is one of my last long term goals to switch from paper and pencil to a computerized drawing/planning system to develop my cut lists etc. For a large job, I spend a fair bit of time doing the original drawings, then my case cut lists, the drawers, doors and other cut lists etc. It will happen some day.

I used the same post cat lacquer I have always used. I am not yet decided what to do with the CV, but I think I will buy a 5 gallon pail and do some more testing over a period of time. I havent ruled out anything yet.

[Ajcoholic]

So I thought I'd revive this thread... Lamello introduced a new connector called the Divario P18, last winter. Never saw it expect on line, and not until I was dowbn in Atlanta at the IWF a few weeks ago, did I get to see them in person. They gave me some samples and I had just bid on more daycare work the previous week. I ended up thinking thatthe Divario woul work great for the slide in shelving in the kids lockers I was going to build. Ordered a box of 300, and today I put everything together...

The top and bottom shelf is held in with 4 Clamex medius 14/10 connectors - allowing a common gable to be used with a shelf on either side. The two cetral shelves will be slid in after assembly, using the Divario connector. Slick, slick system. The more I have used it over the last year and a half, the more we find uses for it.

I got this job (3/4 Baltic birch with 1/8" solid maple edge banding, catalyzed lacquer finish) because they didnt want a traditional box, with double gables or one big unit. They plan to add more units in the future.. we can just keep adding more shelves and gables as needed.

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Just put a few sections together to check the fit and make sure my back panels fit (they sit in a groove in the top, bottom, and sides)

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[Keith Larrett]

Thanks Andrew. I've been following this thread with interest as I've been wanting to get a Zeta P2 for a while now. I'm sure that once I get one I will find all sorts of ways to use it, just haven't been able to get past the high purchase price and the high cost of the consumables. I came very close to getting one for the project I'm currently busy with, but ended up using "magic wires" for some of the shelving.

[Ajcoholic]

Keith,
I understand completely. I remember the first time I saw a CLamex connector. I thought, wow, that is pretty clever and figured some day I'd invest in the machine (I had four Lamello machines previous - they are all pricey) but really didnt understand how useful it would be.

When you see the connectors in real life, and get to do a few sample joints - THAT is when you really see the benefits. And that sold me, back at one of the IWF shows. Same as this year, with the Divario P18. I saw it in the magazines and even watched the videos numerous times. But until I had the connector in my hands and actually tried it on a few scrap pieces of material, I didnt understand how easy it was going to be to install and use. I can bore the holes with my construction boring machine, but it also comes with a slick drilling jig if you need to drill on site of on a piece too big to handle on the machine.

The cost of the connectors are high - but I buy now in bulk (the cost comes down considerably the more you buy) and also, since it allows me to price jobs that others here cant, I just include the cost of the connectors and it is what it is.

[Ajcoholic]

Here is the job done. Put it together this morning. Man, I LOVE this system of connectors! Easy and secure. Completely hidden and very strong.

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