Need advice Spindle or PC in 48 x 96 shopbot

[ArtFilmgroup]

I need advice for spindle and PC, i know money its a big difference but a long run and this is my first SB. and how its the maintenance of the spindle.

Thanks Forum for all you help.

[David Iannone]

Welcome to the forum Jose,
I have a 4x8 2001 PRT and have a PC router. A bought a backup after the first year and keep extra brushes on hand. No complaints at all.

However, I am in the process of saving up for a spindle now a days. I have never used a spindle or even heard one run, but it is my next step in my series of upgrades. From what I gather, they are quiet, and provide constant power, more variable speed adjustment.

Others with spindle experience will chime in and be able to give you a better description of the spindle benefits.

But don't be afraid to save the money now, and add spindle later. There is always a use for a PC router in any workshop.

Dave

[adrianm]

There are numerous threads comparing the router and spindles on the forum. The question comes up quite often.

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=spindle+router+site:talkshopbot.com

[joe]

Jose,

Maintenance on a spindle is almost none.

With a spindle you can let it run all night, coming in the next morning to see the job completed. I've been doing that for years but once you see a router come apart you'll never trust one again. Besides a router is noisy. I can stand besides a spindle running at 14K and talk on the phone.

Joe

[steve_g]

Jose…
There are many ways in which a spindle is superior to the router except one… Cost. A ShopBot with a router is superior to no ShopBot at all!
SG

[MogulTx]

Jose,

Steve makes a great point. Cost is a factor.

My first two ShopBots had routers. My third has a spindle. I loved each of them.

The thing that I note with the spindle is that it is 4HP and I never worry about it not having the strength for what I want to do. The other thing is that it is QUIET compared to my PC router machines. MUCH quieter. I use hearing protection all the time anyway, but it is less tiring on me because it does not scream at me all the time.

The downside? The only downsides I can come up with are (1) the initial cost and (2) the 9 minutes worth of warm up routine on the spindle every time (each day) that I run my machine. I carefully use the warm up procedure so that the spindle will be warmed without a load on it.

If you can afford it, I recommend that you get the spindle. You will be happy that you did. If you can't afford it, you should still purchase all the shopbot that you can afford and then upgrade to a spindle at some point in the future. I also recommend that you get the Alpha model, not the Standard PRS. Trust me. You will be happy that you did.

Monty

[kubotaman]

Jose, I have the spindle. I haven't been sorry for one day. I spent more on the spindle since over the years I have become quite tired of the sound of a router. Yes, as stated, they are expensive. If you want to first buy the Bot with a router and change to the spindle later that is a choice. Be aware that it is not just a simple change. If I were you I would find out what all is involved and the cost to just do the swap out. It may be more expensive than one would think. It is always cheaper in the long run to buy the machine you would like versus changing over later on. The spindle is the way to go.

[Ajcoholic]

Just one thing RE the warm up...

When I get to work, first thing I do is turn on the lights (4 switches in places around the shop), start up the large three phase RPC, turn on the air compressor/auto drain/main valve to the system, turn on the shop stereo and finally go to the Shopbot and turn on both the main power and the computer. If I am going to run parts I start the warm up routine and that 9 minutes sure goes fast. By the time I have my material ready to load, etc its over and I am ready to run.

If I am running periodically throughout the day I just remember to start the warm up a bit before I am ready to run the machine. Once you get into the habit, it is something you do/take care of automatically.

Never am I waiting in front of the machine for the 9 minutes to go by - there is always something else to do in the mean time! lol

The cost of a replacement spindle is a very good deterrent, if you ever decide to "just this once" run it cold. LEave the price tag on the spindle if you are liable to forget! :D: eek:

[gc3]

ahhh well take a look at a water cooled spindle...from China

and yes I will get bashed for saying it...

but mine has made runs of over 72 hrs with no issue

[jerry_stanek]

Where I work they have 2 Biesse's one that I some times run is a pod and rail unit and they have a flat bed that another fellow runs. Both with big spindles and the company says just start the machine do the homing and start cutting no warm up They have been doing this for the last 10 years and haven't had any problems. My machine I do run the warm up program but some times I cut it a little short. No problems in 6 years I have the 2.2kw spindle. I had a router on my old Shopbot and would never think about going back. Like Gene said you can get a Chinese water cooled for just a little more than the router.

[gerryv]

I too have a spindle for the reasons the others haver pointed out.

That said, if the investment is beyond what you're comfortable with, it is possible to upgrade later BUT you would want to ask Shopbot what the total cost would be as it's not just the cost of the spindle and VFD. The control box needs to be upgraded as well, which you may not be able to do yourself.

If you decide that you want to go with the Porter Cable router then you can upgrade it's precision and maybe it's life a bit for a very modest cost with this kit: http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/porter-cable_0429_kits.asp?tsPT=!!!Porter-Cable_0429!!!Kit!!!PG!!!

A lot of the time the decision is based on how much work the machine is going to have to do.

[David Iannone]

Be aware that it is not just a simple change. If I were you I would find out what all is involved and the cost to just do the swap out. It may be more expensive than one would think. It is always cheaper in the long run to buy the machine you would like versus changing over later on. The spindle is the way to go.

The difference is the cost of router vs spindle. IMO swap out is nothing more than a bracket, an electrician and maybe one short saturday?

I totally agree by the way, the spindle is by far superior.

Dave

[matney_models]

I have run mine for over 4 hrs at a time with it only getting 95 degrees.

[ArtFilmgroup]

Hi Monty,

Why the alpha and not the standard can you explain me the difference

Thanks

[ArtFilmgroup]

thanks everyone for taking a time for the answer

Jose !

[steve_g]

Jose…
Alpha VS standard:
The “standard” unit sends the movement signals to the steppers and merrily goes on its way assuming all is well… The Alpha unit gets feedback from the motors confirming that the steps actually happened and takes corrective action if they didn’t. The net result is a lot more cutting force available to the alphas. My experience is that a standard will lose steps if you lean on the gantry too hard, while the alpha will drag you with it!
This is a grossly over simplified explanation but the net result is accurate! One misconception here is that the alpha can’t/won’t make bad parts, it will. Often the corrections made for missed steps are too late to salvage a perfect part, but in a step and repeat scenario, subsequent parts will be properly aligned with the others.
Hope this helps you understand the difference between the two machines!
SG

[Michael Breedlove]

My good friend Bill Lisica who recently passed had a spindle, I have a router. Bouncing between the two shops provided a means to compare. Using his spindle made my router all the more painful. If you can, go spindle and don't look back.

[jerry_stanek]

I have the PRS standard and a spindle I have not had a problem with lost steps but I only cut at 300 IPM or a little faster. If I am doing 3d it takes just as long on a Alpha as a standard.