Convince me!

[Tim Vowels]

I have a Shark HD with a spinel. I want to upgrade in the near future. Please convince me why I should go with a shop bot over its competitors.. I am a hobbyist and would like to be able to do atlast 48x48.
Also if I should decide on a ShopBot which one and what accessories should I get... And lastly is the prices posted negotiable or do they run specials?

Thank you
Tim

[Tim Lucas]

First off, check to see how many professional cabinet shops use the competitors - I really want a Thermwood but starting at $80000.00 and needing 3 phase, that left me looking elsewhere.
Now look at resale value
Next try to find a forum like this that can help you almost anytime
Now- call Shopbot and talk with them about what you need or just ask one question - they are awesome when it comes to customer service!

Now you should be watching the for sale board on here and checking Craigs list looking for your new used bot!

Hope this helps

[Brady Watson]

You are only 4 hrs from the factory...go see one. You can get a demo there or call SB & they will see if there is someone closer to you that is willing to do a demo for you. Back in 2001 I drove 3 hours to see a demo...then wrote a check the next day for a new machine.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

I have a Shark HD with a spinel. I want to upgrade in the near future. Please convince me why I should go with a shop bot over its competitors.. I am a hobbyist and would like to be able to do atlast 48x48.
Also if I should decide on a ShopBot which one and what accessories should I get... And lastly is the prices posted negotiable or do they run specials?

Thank you
Tim

Tim,
If I were you (and I was 4 years ago) I would research the various brands, their history of product/service/etc, investigate the operating systems, the build and so forth - and do the same with the competition.

In reality, each of us has/had "X" dollars to spend on a machine, and tried to get the best value for that dollar.

For me, I looked at several machines and companies, and went to a few larger woodworking shows, spoke to sales and technical support and even a few other owners. Then I decided what would work best for my shop, and that was a Shopbot.

Would I buy another Shopbot router? Certainly! I really like the machine, over the past 3+ years I have had it, it has performed just as I needed it to. Service (what little I did require) was always immediate (getting someone on the phone during working hours is pretty much immediate, email very fast and of course this forum is very, very good too). I like the control system/set up and it was not long to get familiar with operating the machine comfortably.

I have not yet met or spoke to a Shopbot owner who wasnt happy (although some have gone on to much more expensive "big iron machines" costing several times more).

Good luck in your quest. Do some research - you owe it to yourself to do so. Same thing goes with software...

[Ajcoholic]

I took a flight to the AWFS show in 2011 specifically to speak to someone from Shopbot, and spent an hour talking to one of the guys about what I was needing/wanting and what best would suit my needs.

If you are looking to spend several grand (in my case around $20K Canadian) you really have to do some homework IMO. A bit of time and $$ spent to actually see the machines is worthwhile. Actually, with all my major machinery I traveled to see the equipment in person, and most in a working environment. It is a very smart move IMO.

[tri4sale]

Not to long ago I was in the same boat as you (except I didn't have a Shark), a hobbyist too, and this is why I went with ShopBot:

1. This forum. I could tell that the people on this forum were extremely helpful, even to newbies asking a question that had been asked a bunch times before, rarely did it seem as if they were getting annoyed by newbie questions.
2. This forum. I was amazed at how quickly when someone asked for help here they usually get answers.
3. ShopBot support. They answered my questions when I called about a used machine for sale, spent a fair amount of time on the phone with me explaining how old the used machine I was looking at was, what I would and should do to get it up to speed.
4. ShopBot is a NC company. I like to support my local businesses, they are an hours drive away, took mom up there for a factory tour, and after it she was more excited to get one then me! She still carries the little cross they cut out as an example for us in her purse, and the large cross is in her sewing room. It was amazing, the asked us what we'd like to see sample cut, she said a cross, and probably 15 minutes later they had cut out 2 crosses with intricate details on the face.
5. Resale value of ShopBots. I picked my first machine up on Craigslist, rush decision, and great learning curve. Seller swore it was single phase, but it wasn't was 3 phase, which I don't have access too. I cleaned up machine, and sold at profit in under 30 days.

I never found any other site dedicated to a specific manufacturer to be as helpful as the ShopBot community. Heck, they'll help you here even if you don't own a ShopBot!

I also considered a 48x48 machine, I work in a single car garage, but I ended up with a 48x96 and very glad I did, it's very nice to have ability to just drop a full size sheet on the Bot. And every time I looked, it really wasn't that large of a price differential to go up to a 48x96 machine. I considered a Buddy, but by time I added power-sticks to support larger size, it was too big to fit in my garage.

Keep an eye on the for sale boards here, and you'll see some bot's come up nearby. You'll probably have to drive a short distance to get one, I went down to Atlanta to get mine. Sometimes they pop up on Craigslist and eBay (setup a search on eBay for every time ShopBot is listed) but I have noticed the eBay ones seem to be a bit on high side price wise.

But it does come down to budget. You have to ask yourself how much do you want to spend? And how far will you drive to get it. I picked mine up in an enclosed trailer (figured it was going to be a 2 day trip for me, and because of traffic it was) cause I didn't want mine exposed on long drive up I-85. This is assuming you go used. If you go new, you could order and pick up from ShopBot, save some shipping costs. If you go a full size 48x96 machine new you'll get the educational experience of assembly, which will help educate you on how the machine is put together and works. Good to know when you need to service it. Some people prefer to buy a used one because it is already full assembled.

And what Brady said. Go to the factory for a tour, it is low pressure, very very friendly group of people. When I win the lottery I will be ordering a very nice custom 'Bot from them.

[donek]

As someone who sells a CNC accessory, I can't tell you how many times I have heard "I own brand X, but that company is out of business".

I bought my first CNC, a shopbot, in 1999. That machine is still an integral part of my production along with a newer shopbot purchased a couple years ago. Both machines are the backbone of my operation. I would not hesitate to buy another. I refer more customers to shopbot than any other brand because of the service, ease of use, and the companies proven track record. You simply won't regret purchasing a machine from shopbot.

[coryatjohn]

I would say you should go to the ShopBot class which is held at the factory every month. I did that early on in my decision making process and it pretty much clinched the deal for me. I looked at several other systems and they were nice and all but the SB had the most bang for the buck and with the support, it was hard to consider another machine. I've had my 60x96x12 PRS Alpha for three years now and the machine has done exactly what I've asked of it. I suggest getting bigger than you need rather than what you need as the cost isn't that much and bigger, especially in the Z axis, allows a lot more freedom in materials and projects than just enough. The 12" Z was to me the smartest decision but so was going with the 60" width over 48". I placed aluminum extrusions along the extra width so I can use my table both for standard sheets using a vacuum hold down system and clamp fixtures with the extrusions. I've found that to be quite useful.

I would suggest you spend the time to see any machine you are seriously considering in person. Try calling the support line for that company at 4:55pm and see if they answer. Try emailing them on the weekend and see if you hear back from them in the next week or ever. I think you will find SB to be the one you want to deal with. I did.

[jerry_stanek]

Don't let anyone tell you that the Shopbot is light compared to their unit. After it is assembled and the top is installed it weighs about the same as the others. One thing when you assemble it you will know the machine.

[MogulTx]

You know the crazy part? All these folks telling you that you DO want a ShopBot! How many websites and forums have you come across, where the people who paid significant money for a tool and several years later, they are STILL enamored with the machine AND they love the service they get when they need it??

I got hit with lightning a couple years ago and Frank sat with me on the phone talking me through the check outs on the machine. We instantly identified that I had lost a 5V power transformer. We replaced it- and then we trouble shot the board. It had issues that needed repairing at the shop, so I FedExed it to him and he had it fixed and turned around in 1 day! ONE DAY! Frank and I had discussed the fact that I was in need of some machining- so he helped me get it fixed super-fast so I could keep moving. And while I think Frank is AWESOME- I believe ALL the folks up there are awesome...

You do your searching around and see what you find, but I could have built my own machine from the plans that are available on the web and would have gotten a "good" machine. Once I found this forum, and these machines- my mind was made up.

You do what you think is best for you, and then tell us which ShopBot you decide to buy. Buy a bigger one than you think you "need"- you won't be sorry. As soon as you commit to a size, you will find a project that is bigger than the machine can allow....

Best of luck!

Monty

[ken_rychlik]

I have owned several shopbots, but have moved on to another machine. I would call the shopbot a High end hobby machine, and a low end industrial machine. Many on here are using their bots to make a living and I don't mean my comment in a negative way at all. I have many friends here.
Ken

[steve_g]

Tim…
I’ve had occasion to use several other varieties of CNC equipment… some I felt were “nicer” than my ShopBot but cost $200,000+, there are some that cost much more than my PRT Alpha that I wouldn’t give a dime for! I’ve not used the Shark HD but did have some experience with an early shark… likely a poor comparison.
I’m not aware of any “sales” or “clearance” prices offered by ShopBot… and why would they? They don’t have them sitting around waiting to be sold, it seems like SB manufacturing has always lagged behind sales! That fact is one reason used machines always sell, some people just can’t wait after they make up their mind!
As far as accessories, I’m told that 90% of indexers are sitting idle… I made a homebrew version, mastered it and now it sits idle also! Vacuum hold down can always be added later, as a hobbyist, you’ll likely make a different project every day, Vacuum may or may not be something you need! Since you already have had a spindle, I think you’d really be unhappy with a router motor. Dust collection is a must as you likely already know!
What design software are you using now? Vectric Aspire or V-carve pro are tops!
Something I really appreciate after-the-fact is the easily learned control language! OpenSBP® is a series of 2 letter mnemonic commands. If however, your native tongue is G code, the bot understands you too!
Enjoy the hunt!
SG

[coryatjohn]

>> As far as accessories, I’m told that 90% of indexers are sitting idle

I have one of those idle indexers but I wouldn't have changed my order if I did it again today. In order to use an indexer, the controller needs to be configured with an extra axis. If you decide at some point in the future that you do want an indexer, it's a lot more complicated to add it rather than having it in the machine to start with. Of course, it all depends on your budget. For me, just convincing my wife (and business partner) that a SB was something to buy was the biggest thing, we had the budget to buy it. Convincing her later to upgrade it might have been more difficult than doing it all at once. That for me was the clincher. I did balk on the tool changer. Sometimes I regret it, other times I feel it would have been pointless. I am a pretty good tool changer after all.

I would say the most important upgrade I did was the 12" Z. It's not that much up front but the end result is a much beefier machine with a lot more capability. If you can only afford one upgrade, that would be the one I'd go for.

[tri4sale]

As far as accessories, I’m told that 90% of indexers are sitting idle



I'd love to take one of those 90% idle indexers off someones hands :)

[coryatjohn]

>> As far as accessories, I’m told that 90% of indexers are sitting idle

A 90% idle indexer is still being used 10% of the time!

[myxpykalix]

As far as options go an indexer allows you the most creativity i think. Here are a few things i've made

[scottp55]

15 good reasons so far:)
THIS FORUM!
Often get responses to my few problems within an hour. And the suggestions and help on projects are invaluable.
But the REAL kick is the company!
I've NEVER gotten a machine during working hours, and twice on stuff that could have waited till morning, got a call back after hours with no real rush until my problem was fixed.
Before I even Had my first machine, Sales (Dianne) couldn't answer a technical question, so I waited 30 seconds, and then talked for 30 minutes with someone who knew the answer (it was 10 minutes before I realized it was the president Ted Hall!)
Without even ASKING they Modded a MakerCrate for my wheelchair AND didn't charge for it!!! (Thanks TJ and Bill)
ALSO fabbed a spindle interlock(Thanks Gordon) for my Desktop, and then didn't charge a cent for it as they thought it was a good feature for classrooms and it became a standard feature.
Bought the first one sight unseen and Loved it so much we bought a second 4 months later! NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER (except I wish I'd had someone Demo for me so I could have hit the ground running).
I'm proud to call a couple of Shopbotters "Friends" and even somebody From Shopbot:)
The company is just Amazing! (Dad says in 60 yrs of dealing with big business...He's NEVER been so impressed:)
I doubt VERY much you'd regret it regardless of which machine you get.
my 2 cents.
scott

[supertigre]

My PRT 96 is about 15 years old now. I upgraded the controller to a 4G, replaced the pinions twice (needs it again soon), replaced the Z constant tension spring twice, the wire arch twice, one of the 4G controllers went bad after 3 years (replaced for cost of shipping to/from the manufacturer), and I wore out about 5 PC 7518 router motors. Total down time in 15 years about 5 - 10 days (I had a spare 4G controller). Total cost of maintenance, repairs, and upgrades in 15 years is about $4k (I spent more on router bits) but I also made north of $300K on the machine in the same time-frame. It doesn't owe me anything and is still worth half of what I paid for it. :D

Do you need another reason to buy a ShopBot? :P

[jerry_stanek]

I have a PRS standard and the company I work for has 2 Biesses one flat table and one pod and rail. I do some cuts that are to difficult for them to do as one offs. There is a real nice unit for sale in the wanted/for sale thread. If it was closer I would be on it.

[Burkhardt]

...... Here are a few things i've made

Very nice! But you can not do that with an indexer. You definitely need an INDEXER! ;-)

[gc3]

I miss the old PR, made a lot of $$ for me. This and other forums provided me with the info to learn and grow.

[David Iannone]

Back in 2000 I was convinced I wanted to get into CNC routing in house for my sign business. At the time I was sending my CNC cut work to Harbor Sales in MD. They were using a Gerber Sabre router. I saw it run a few times, what a nice machine. It was very expensive. My Dad had been doing some research and came up with an idea of the SHOPBOT router. I said na.....it cant be good if the price is that good.

We went to the Atlantic City Sign show in 2001 and saw a Shopbot run. We were sold at the show. We ordered one right away.

My SB has made me a lot of money. Then I moved 800 miles with the bot and all my other equipment. This is a machine if needed can move long distances and you can do it yourself (with one helper) no problem. I have had to break my machine all the way down to stringers, legs and rails 1 time and have moved it 3 times total. It ain't fun, but it's doable it you don't mind a little heavy lifting.

Dave