here is the latest project

[cowboy1296]

This one is donated to a group that i ride motorcycles with, however my bar tab will be free for 3 days. Trust me they will pay.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25334&stc=1 I have wanted to cut this Indian head for a long time. It has a lot of z. The artwork came from Todd and vector art 3-d. It is still in the finishing stage and i hope to do some glazing tomorrow.

[pappybaynes]

That is outstanding! Make'm pay at the bar!!

[MogulTx]

BEAUTIFUL. You should be beaming! Nice work!

[scottp55]

Another beautiful job Rick:)
Just wondering how much, and what tools you use for sanding to get that nice smooth surface?
Well done...Again:)

[phil_o]

Excellent work. Very impressed with how smooth the background came out.

Phil

[Kyle Stapleton]

WOW, that looks great.

[cowboy1296]

thanks for all of the comments. this goes against everything i thought i knew. i always cut with the grain along the x axis. this block of wood the grain ran along the y axis and i forgot to change my settings. and got one of the smoothest cuts in a while. I also changed my v r settings to what is suggested on here and on shopbot tools and Scott one of my on line mentors.

A one eighth bit would have never fit down inside of the head dress so i opted for a 1/16. The whole thing, including the flat area was part of the 3-d file. The finishing tool path took about 12 hours and the plaque is just over 19 inches long.

Finishing is not one of my strong points but i have come a long ways since the beginning. This still has one more coat of arm a seal and then it is finished.

Sanding 3-d is always a nightmare. I use a sanding mop mostly and needle files to remove fuzzies. This time around there were not that many fuzzies to remove. I am also using a sanding tool that is shaped like a q tip but 4 times as big that i got from rockler, they actually help.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25347&stc=1

[srwtlc]

Two thumbs up! Very nice Rick! I like how the boots look worn and wrinkled.

[cowboy1296]

Worn and wrinkled, are you talking about me or the boots?
Thanks Scott.

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick.
You going to try against the grain again?
Had pretty very luck the few times I've done it, but just getting into it and didn't want to go against the flow.

[cowboy1296]

not sure. I would like to hear more from those that cut against the grain in the finishing tool path and how it worked out for them.

[scottp55]

Rick, Forgive for posting pics on your thread, but thought you might be interested?
Month ago, I simply didn't take anything for granted and was checking to see if 3D buttons 1.6X.9" were economically feasible for us.
3 30degree bits and identical toolpaths and last one was 1 pass/no roughing/against grain...and came out the best.
No sanding at all as these were for reference...DID give one on left a second pass at 2,2,17K as a single pass wasn't even similar in finish.(Note that Loon lost neck on left one going with the grain:(
Second pic is EXACTLY same toolpath/bit in top right as first.
Know it's not even relevant to your bigger stuff, but just in case.
Pleased you had such a pleasant surprise:)
Hope you don't mind.
scott

[cowboy1296]

you aint hi-jacked nothing. this is all about information and trading experiences and thanks for the posting.

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick,
Here's the 3 bits side by side on the same blank. Identical toolpathing/no sanding(just a stiff boar brush and 90psi)
Again, size is 1.6X.9X.22"
A BN just wasn't giving it to me in preview at this size, and wanted to skip roughing pass and sanding if possible(Northern shop has a heavy hand on sanding and detail disappears:( so may be ridiculous stepover, but results are more consistent).
Need to try flipping design 90degrees and see if neck survives higher feed if grain is supported.
VBit was the worse, and looking for a 2Flute engraving now with a .015"flat in 1/4"shank 30degree.
Do eventually want to do bigger, but at the moment it's buttons and 1/4" stock cribbage storage panel stuff.
Follow you guys so I'll have a clue when the time comes(Maybe:)
Need to try Arm-R-Seal too.
scott

[cowboy1296]

i got turned onto it here. It seals without turning the artwork an ugly amber. It does have a short shelf life though, but if you spray it with an inert gas it lasts longer.

[scottp55]

Thanks,
Saw you when you were searching for non-amber finish:)
May come in handy for Maple and Yellowheart when I finally get around to inlay with those woods!
How many coats on that one in the pic?

[Brian Harnett]

Looks great, finish and wood is perfect.

[cowboy1296]

there are people that run circles around me with my finishing but i have stumbled into a process that i am happy with. i use two coats of arm a seal on everything and wipe off the excess. then if i have letters that need staining i use a gel stain and brush it in to the letters. as i am wiping off the excess i am adding a thin coat on top of the arm a seal on the rest of the plaque. sometimes, especially with black walnut the arm a seal may make the project look like plastic. i then add a thin coat of dark jell stain all over and wipe off the excess, which is what i did with sheriffs plaque. now that said watch the gel stain peal off. I then put the 3rd and final coat of arm a seal all over the plaque.
Finishing 3-d has been a chore for me. The Taos plaque will get its 3rd coat of arm a seal tomorrow. The picture does not do the sheriff's plaque justice. It was presented tonight and everyone luved it.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25381&stc=1

[scottp55]

Thanks RicK! :)

[cowboy1296]

This is off topic but still 3-d. I just got a request to do something that has an England theme. I have no idea where to start, any suggestions.

[cowboy1296]

finished. Now its dries and then it heads to the bar in Taso.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25388&stc=1

[cowboy1296]

This time i did it on purpose, doing the finishing tool path across the grain. The result was almost zero fuzzies in this cherry plaquehttp://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25648&stc=1. When i ran my finders over the flat area it felt like what 300 grit sand paper would feel like. The plaque is in the process of being finished.

[scottp55]

Just Zoomed in on it, and that looks GREAT Rick.
You must have been watching it start cutting like a hawk:)
Nice to know my little testing ones weren't a fluke.
Cut down on sanding time then?
THANKS for playing with it again, and VERY glad it worked so well twice in a row.
Scott

[cowboy1296]

i still sanded with a mop and vibrating sander, but there were zero fuzzies. now when i do my 3-d stuff, even the flat area is cut with a ball nose instead of a pocket.

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick.

[cowboy1296]

I have often wondered what one of my 3-d carvings would look like if it were finished by an artist. I can not take credit for this finish on this at all and the artist did an outstanding job. She just informed me that it is all stain except for the gold on the lettering. It 20 inches round, took 25 hours to cut. Models came from Todd Bailey and vectorart3d.com. Man i wish that i could paint.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25707&stc=1

[srwtlc]

THAT IS BEAUTIFUL!! Nice job on the layout too Rick!

[cowboy1296]

actually she did the layout, sortof. she put a sketch together and i followed it as much as i could. we butted heads on a couple of issues but it finally came together. its going to be mounted in a bar within a home. it has a baseball theme but the grand slam means that each time they visit they want to see the 4 different critters.

[srwtlc]

Kind of figured that was what the 'Grand Slam' meant.

You need to have her write up a tutorial for the 'artistically challenged' among us. ;)

[cowboy1296]

Scott aka srwtlc, a couple of people on the vectric site dont like the fact that cutting this 20 inch plaque took close to 25 hours. about 4 were the roughing and the other 21 was finishing with a 1/16 inch ball nose. I am using the 3d ramping values, but there is so much z action is what makes me think that the cutting took so long. Feed rates and plunge rates are close with about 2.6 inch per second for each. I am thinking that i am very close to what is correct. What do you think?

[khaos]

As hobbyists we get the benefit of taking as long as we like. In a production environment that would be a $2-3000.00 plaque. I think results are what matter. And it looks damn good.

[cowboy1296]

i can understand the difference between my garage and a full service shop. I just wanted some input on if i were doing something wrong. There is always room for improvement.

[bleeth]

The last large 3-d I did is around 24 x 36. I roughed it with a 3/8 end mill and finished with a 1/8" BN at 8%. Final took 22 hours and the result needed much sanding.
So I would say your time was par for your strategy. Pics don't always tell the story. The fine detail can't be had with a bigger faster bit. If you wanted it more "rustic" you could have used a larger bit and knocked a lot of time off but the fineness of your detail just takes time. No way, for example, to have the tree look that good with larger bit.
Great job.

[srwtlc]

Scott aka srwtlc, a couple of people on the vectric site dont like the fact that cutting this 20 inch plaque took close to 25 hours. about 4 were the roughing and the other 21 was finishing with a 1/16 inch ball nose. I am using the 3d ramping values, but there is so much z action is what makes me think that the cutting took so long. Feed rates and plunge rates are close with about 2.6 inch per second for each. I am thinking that i am very close to what is correct. What do you think?

Rick,

It might be a bit long for the size, but you have to take into account that it's a 1/16" bit with a small stepover. I don't remember if yours is a Standard or Alpha, but I'll generally run (depending on detail) around 4/3, 4/4, 5/4, or 5/5 and I'll even bump up the ramp for XY and Z if detail permits, because you seldom get up to full speed so a little more ramp speed can help. It takes a bit of testing to find what works best. If you have a Standard, you may not be able to attain those speeds without loosing steps, particularly on the Z.

There's really no area in your layout that you'll get up to speed for very long before it has to slow down again. Each direction has just as much detail so no matter what you choose for toolpath direction, it would take about the same time. One thing you could do, if you didn't, is to add a draft to any of the parts that have a straight wall (the letters and rings). A 10% draft will allow the toolpath to do a shallow rise/fall on each side instead of an abrupt stop/up down/go, keeping the tool in more constant motion. There's a lot of up/down time for just the rim!

A lot of the users on the Vectric forum are running Mach3/4 and although it's been a long time since I ran it and didn't really get to do much if any 3D with it, I think it handles keeping each axis in motion and up to speed best it can a bit better/smoother (constant velocity), but may/can sacrifice a bit of detail due to corner rounding depending on the CV settings.

[cowboy1296]

thanks for the encouragement Bleeth, from you that means a lot. For a moment i thought that i doing something wrong. Recently i did a rustic lantern for a furniture maker. Although it was rustic enough for me he used a chisel and added to it. the client luved it.

back to the barrel. it was cut from a block of wood that was 1.7 inches thick. the shape height of the barrel was 1.13. I used a beckwidth 1/16 inch bit with a 7% step over with feed rate and plunge set at 2.6 per minute. Yes i did use the 3-d ramp values. with all of the components on top of it, it meant for a lot of z travel. I did preview it using a 1/8 inch bit and based on that i went with the 1/16. i have changed bits midstream on a 3-d cutting before and did not care for the result. so generally i stick with the same bit for the whole project.

Anyhow i am always learning so the input is always appreciated.

[cowboy1296]

i am just a poor boy working out of the corner of his garage and wait on the monthly government check. In other words i have a standard.

see what i mean by always learning. i am not sure what this means: A 10% draft will allow the toolpath to do a shallow rise/fall on each side instead of an abrupt stop/up down/go. But i will research it to see how it works.

[srwtlc]

Draft button.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25709&stc=1

Took me a bit to find it, but its on page 207 of the reference manual in your user data folder.

In your case, you would use it on only the text and rings by turning off the other components.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25710&stc=1

[cowboy1296]

thanks for doing my work for me. i have seen this as somewhat of an issue on other carvings but i did not know that there was a way to fix it.

Along with your explanation that was easy to figure out. Thanks again and i can assure you that i will be using that tool a lot in the future.

[dmidkiff]

That is awesome Rick. The detail that you achieved just takes time. The artist work gives the project an extra kick. Wish I could finish like that.

[cowboy1296]

me too, mine always looks like brown on brown.

[scottp55]

Beautiful job Rick!
Did she take it from a finish sanded point, or had you applied a coat?
LOVE the detail!

[cowboy1296]

i did a lot of sanding and am not sure at this point if she did more. I gave her more than enough Arm A Seal to seal the project. I want to think that she used it but i am not sure but i will ask because i want to know.

[srwtlc]

Another thing you can do, and it may be more 'normal' than a draft in this situation, would be to make the shape with a height limit and steep angle for the side walls. It does make the top surface smaller than the actual size of the vectors used to make the shape, but you can do an offset to account for that. Verify size with a cross section if needed.

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick.
Just wondering because of all the exposed end grain, and if she was using gel stains to even out the absorption differences.
Showed this thread to Dad and got a one word response;
"WOW!" :)

[cowboy1296]

If anyone had to learn the hard way about exposed end grains it was me. I destroyed more than one project with splotchy finishing. She knows 10 times more than i do about finishing but had never done 3-d on wood so i shared my experiences and arm-a-seal with her. now i need to get her to tell me just what she did.

[cowboy1296]

Here is the latest going to a friend in Houston.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=25865&stc=1

[Brady Watson]

Lucky friend :)

Beautiful job as always!

-B

[cowboy1296]

my finishes are always brown on brown, i wish i could do something else. but i am too old to try and learn how to paint. Thanks Brady, coming from you that means a lot.

[Brian Harnett]

It looks great the finish is perfect I think paint would take away from it.

[Ajcoholic]

yes the finish looks amazing!

[cowboy1296]

thanks. Like in the movie Karate Kid, "wipe on wipe off" or something like that.

[cowboy1296]

Latest projects.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27890&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27891&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27892&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27894&stc=1

[bleeth]

Beautiful work as usual.
The badge is particularly fantastic.

[cowboy1296]

Thanks. That badge is 17.4 inches tall and took 12 hours on the finishing tool path. It is still in the finishing stage and only has one thin coat of sealer on it now.

[dmidkiff]

I agree with Dave.

[cowboy1296]

The day that the Dallas Cops were murdered i started to work on this one. With the help of a friend we got the top ribbon right. It still has one or two more seal coats to go on and then it ships to Dallas. Roughly 20x24, 1.7 inches thick and cut into black walnut. Other than the ribbon everything was made from aspire 8.5. The gallonhttp://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28632&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28633&stc=1 jug of water was added only to give it size.

[scottp55]

Excellent Rick!!
I like how the contrast is the outer area, and the inside is left pure:)
What was max depth overall?
scott

[cowboy1296]

the bowl is .8 of an inch deep and the badge is .79 in shape height.

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick.
Did you do something special to get the dark contrast, or is it just usual end grain oil darkness?
Anything special in the finish of the "bowl" to keep it so uniform?
Who exactly is it going to?
Pro Bono?
Great work as usual(bet you have mixed feelings hearing that all the time:)
scott

[cowboy1296]

I really suck at finishing. But with black walnut i start off with 2 coats of arm a seal. Sometimes at this stage the finish can look to much like plastic. then i add gel stain to the graphics. as i am wiping off the excess i wipe a very thing coat of stain over the entire plaque, i mean very thin. this kills the plastic look.

[dmidkiff]

Really good job. What a great gesture to help promote healing!!!!

[scottp55]

Thanks Rick!
I forgot your gel stain step:(
I agree with David too.
Great piece of work!
scott

[cowboy1296]

Thanks, now today i am going to sand it with really fine sand paper and a sanding mop for the 3-d and apply what might be the last coat of arm a seal.