running two Regenerative Blowers do they need to be the same?

[knight_toolworks]

my 2 month blower shorted out and I have just shipped it back luckily I did not have to pay shipping. But I am back two my black box and heating my shop. the model I got is an oddball and they discontinued it for another model not yet in stock. so I can't buy another one and I can't find another really close to it. 100 inch H2O and 221cfms it is a oddball. I can find larger or smaller and everything costs more. but I can get a little smaller and run them together or not?

[Brady Watson]

You can run any combination of pumps if you understand that whichever pulls the least vacuum (Hg"), that will be your highest vacuum you can achieve. Furthermore, the one that sucks harder will be pulling vacuum through the one that pulls less - essentially sitting there and wasting energy, cavitating and generating waste heat.

The best solution would be to run a single pump (a 5hp FPz is real nice, but 3ph). SB sells a single phase 10hp blower that works well. Only smaller shops run multiple small pumps, until you get into the big iron running multiple Beckers for CFM. A real vac pump seems expensive until you factor in all the small ones you buy over the course of a few years and how much time and aggravation you spent, including downtime and work lost...not to mention monetary investment.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

I did not think it would work. the problem is smaller blowers that match the black box performance are oddballs. they are usually below or a bit more for a lot more money. the next blower up I can find jumps to 1700.00 for only 45 more cfms. two smaller blowers is about the only way to get much better performance for 1600.00 or so. in used pumps I can't find the right specs and they are around 1200 close to what I have. it is much easier getting a larger pump then a smaller one. but my shop is too small for al larger pump and all the heat. a blower is easier to pump the heat out of my shop then the back box setup I am back to that right now and my shop is cooking. I am down in the basement of a old building and no way to get rid of the heat.

[knight_toolworks]

this is what I ahve http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LS10KSC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00 I only have 220v power too but the heat and noise are issues.

[Brady Watson]

Why not just buy the black box then?

-B

[knight_toolworks]

I have one and a backup. but they wear out and create far more heat and noise. I want something more reliable though I don't need a lot more performance.

[bleeth]

Steve-Regens do come up for sale here pretty often for 1500 or so complete. You can always add a one tool phase converter for a few hundred and you're good for life.
The guys who ask 2500 or more often settle for 1500 as that neighborhood has been a going rate pretty often. I'd bet you could find a 5-10HP regen without the bells and whistles (You don't really need them-I've been running a basic one with no filters, meters, etc. and a wall switch with no starter for umpteen years) in your budget.

[knight_toolworks]

I have the starter and filters and all. but it is hard to find a 5hp I have 3 phase just 220v. I found a great one on ebay new a fuji that is 1700 regular and was 780 but I looked at the wrong model it was one digit difference and I looked the wrong one up. this one was 575v I had bought it and it was fairly local but when I discovered the voltage was a oddball they gave me a refund.
I don't know what is going to happen with the returned one they don't have another in stock and I think the model is changing. that would be ideal get another one then I could use both if needed. I think I will jsut have to suffer till they work that out they don't have any models a step-up to upgrade too the next one is 10hp and that is just too big for my shop. the ones in the 5hp rage are oddballs and they often don't have the right specs.

[bleeth]

Try this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regenerative-Blower-5HP-3Ph-230-460V-2-NPT-Ports-w-Y-Strainer-Valve-Silencers-/271414697519?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f31939e2f

[knight_toolworks]

Try this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regenerative-Blower-5HP-3Ph-230-460V-2-NPT-Ports-w-Y-Strainer-Valve-Silencers-/271414697519?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f31939e2f

no clue on the specs on it. they vary so much it is crazy. looking at blowers they vary so much on the cfms and " it is a battle to find one with what you want.

[danhamm]

I have to 3hp. 3 phase regens there new tested never used, I am using the same ones only single phase 220 volts
ordered from golden Dragon in china they sent he wrong ones, we had argument "alibaba got involved they sent right ones
Ihad to pay duty, I run them in series, about 14 to 15 o the gauge. open to offers or trades.

[knight_toolworks]

I got a return on the bad blower it shorted out. they don't have that exact model they have a bit smaller pump or ones that that 380v. so the replacement will be 185cfms and 100" of h20. I will get a second one since I have some credit. I have been fine for the most part with the two motors in a black box for hold down. so I am debating on how to hook them up parallel or series. the only time I have hold down issues is warped plywood and thin plastic that lifsts up. so more cfms or more 1" or hook them up so I can choose? thats a fair amount of piping work but I could choose either with shutoff valves.

[Brady Watson]

Parallel. Run them in series if you want the bearings to seize & the shop to fill with acrid electrical smoke...

I already mentioned the pump you need...there are a few on Ebay. You can get a starter, hook it up and be done with the band-aid setups and get down to making money - unless you enjoy being self-defeating. You ask questions, then cheese out & don't take the advice. I don't understand this.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

Parallel. Run them in series if you want the bearings to seize & the shop to fill with acrid electrical smoke...

I already mentioned the pump you need...there are a few on Ebay. You can get a starter, hook it up and be done with the band-aid setups and get down to making money - unless you enjoy being self-defeating. You ask questions, then cheese out & don't take the advice. I don't understand this.

-B
I already have the blower well the one I had died and is getting replaced on warranty.
but they only had one that was a bit smaller and i had some credit left so I got two slightly smaller ones. I had checked ebay and i could not find a blower that worked but for a couple in the 1700 range that were only a little better then what I had. Plus I only have 220 3 phase power and that leaves off the larger blowers. I would have upgraded to the larger one they had but it was 380v. Plus with the two smaller ones when I have a light load I will only need one.
I don't know what you expected me to do sell the blower I just got replaced and find another one? for 1500.00 I get 370cfms and about 8"
with two blowers I have a backup and I can sell on my back box stuff.
since I have one new pump I figured it is better to get another of the same rather then another pump that would have to be run separate.
I bought the largest regen blower I could afford and run in my shop the owner of the building who I share space with 13 other tenets in the basement does not want me running a large pump all the time.

[Brady Watson]

Ebay FPz 5hp blower $550 (http://r.ebay.com/6gJeIX). I have the same pump and it will run all day every day without skipping a beat. 9 Hg" & 200 CFM.

The pumps you selected don't seem to be very durable. I guess it is good to keep a spare if you wiped one out already.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

Ebay FPz 5hp blower $550 (http://r.ebay.com/6gJeIX). I have the same pump and it will run all day every day without skipping a beat. 9 Hg" & 200 CFM.

The pumps you selected don't seem to be very durable. I guess it is good to keep a spare if you wiped one out already.

-B
I think it was me my adjustable relief valve seemed to be closed. when I setup the pump I closed the valves and listened to the noise it ,made opened the valve till it sounded normal. but when I was cutting the night before was a long session with full vacuum and I was cutting phenolic so my whole shop reeked of burned plastic/electrical. I know when I turned off the blower it was really hot. I think it fried then the next morning it had shorted. though I don't know for sure. but the company was really good paid for return shipping but that model was getting replaced so I did not want to wait a month or more. so I got a slightly smaller one in replacement and credit so I got two. that way I can keep the heat down when I don't need it. after I sell my two black box setups that should pay the extra cost.
I have no access to outside air so having a lot of heat is bad in the summer. the black box setup puts all the heat in my shop and I think venting the exhaust outside my shop may heat them up more. Plus I have people right next to me so noise is an issue too.

[Ajcoholic]

Steve,
if you are having trouble with the relief valve - you might want to try one of the "vacuum boosters" from Fuji. It is a valve-less valve (no moving parts, works on venturi) which is made to dead-head your pump for maximum suck, but doesnt whistle and nothing to maintain other than cleaning the filter from dust once and a while.

As for pumps, that Elmo 10HP I bought off here last year is a beast - but even running for several hours at a time, I dont find the heat all that bad. It is very quiet, and certainly moves a lot of air. Perhaps a larger pump would cut down on noise - maybe the larger ones turn slower rpms - not sure but Im guessing? Mine is 10 HP, but I know you might not have the wiring to support that much. Id still look for (as Brady suggested) a single pump that is of quality brand. Used stuff is available, and these seem to be pretty robust.

[knight_toolworks]

I am not sure what was going on with the valve. when I checked it after I put my black box setup back on it was not letting air in the adjustment was off. it is a simple screw with a lock nut. I had to open it up a fair amount to get it back where it used to be. maybe I just did not adjust it right when I put the blower on. I would have noticed the motor getting so hot but the phenolic stinks so bad and a bit the same as a hot motor. Plus I seldom get full vac but I had the sheet glued to a sheet of coroplast and only cutting 2x4 area. so the pump was working harder then usual and all day long.
I don't usually need more vacuum then the black box provides so having the second just on need seems the best way to keep everyone happy.
Now I wonder I have a starter that is rated for 15 to 20 amps but the new blowers are only 10.5 amps. should I get smaller starters my last blower was 13 amps and maybe thats why the motor overheat protection did not work?

[Brady Watson]

Starter "heaters" should match the horsepower/amps of the motor if you want there to be any protection.

Pressure relief valves DO go bad from time to time...

-B

[knight_toolworks]

man finding a all in one starter box thats smaller is a pain. either they are too large or too expensive. this one seems to fit hard to tell what amps it is set for http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elimia-DOL-12-18-240LC-5-HP-3-Phase-240V-Magnetic-Motor-Starter-Nema-4X-NEW-/371292373285?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5672c00125

[Brady Watson]

I've got a WEG for the FPz. Cheap and reliable. Amazon et al sells them.

-B

[David Iannone]

Ebay FPz 5hp blower $550 (http://r.ebay.com/6gJeIX). I have the same pump and it will run all day every day without skipping a beat. 9 Hg" & 200 CFM.

The pumps you selected don't seem to be very durable. I guess it is good to keep a spare if you wiped one out already.

-B

Brady,
Excuse my ignorance but I don't have 3 phase, but I have 220v now for my lighthouse motors.....will the motor you sent a link to work in my setup? 9" hold down on a 4x8 with 4 zones? I am not so good with electrical stuff, I always call the electrician.

I like the lighthouse motors but am SICK of the noise.

Thanks,
Dave

[David Iannone]

Well, I just couldn't resist the impulse buy. I just ordered it.

As long as my electrician can wire it up I'm in. Will be selling my lighthouse motors and box soon.
Or reselling the pump I just bought.

Dave

[knight_toolworks]

it is hard to find pumps that will do the job on 220v usually it takes two of them. I was thinking of going that route but it was too expensive. I finally found fuii relief valve that should work this guy http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KON8956/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3V8AZN3GDIRPZ it is rated for 100" and it can be turned down and the same amount of cfms with both blowers running. plus I don't need a filter.
I have this guy but the problem is the airflow is not full when you have it at the pressure you want. so either it is letting air in even at a lower vac or not enough air if you have it set higher.

[Brady Watson]

Brady,
Excuse my ignorance but I don't have 3 phase,


You can run off of single phase if you buy a rotary converter...Have your electrician help you with your selection.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

it is hard to find pumps that will do the job on 220v usually it takes two of them.

Not so... lots of larger HP motors are wired to run on 220V/240V, as I run my entire shop of equipment (over 20 machines) on 240V three phase. Most of my equipment is 7.5HP to 20HP. And I run everything off of one large rotary phase converter that will handle up to 75 combined horsepower.

For one motor, you can easily buy a used RPC for probably a few hundred dollars if you look hard and are willing to wait for a deal. I had a smaller one that was good for up to 7.5 HP, that I pretty well gave away to someone who needed it.

My wide belt sander is 25 HP, and runs on 240V - no problem. There are lots of larger regen blowers that are also 220V-240V. As well as 480 and 600V. Many companies make them in several voltages. I know, as I was looking for almost a year before I bought mine last year.

[Ajcoholic]

...Have your electrician help you with your selection.

-B

This is important. I see guys in this field all the time, who do not know really enough to buy the proper equipment and get it wired up - and end up doing it wrong or wasting $$ on buying things they later cant use. To me, it makes a lot of sense to pay a good industrial electrician a few hours to tell you what you need, and get it hooked up properly. At least I think it is important... and a cost of doing business. YMMV :)

[knight_toolworks]

I meant 220 single sorry about that.
I found a great deal on a fuji pump a 7.5hps for 760 brand new just had a dented electrical cover and it was local bought it off ebay but realized it looked at the wrong model number (one digit off) it ran at 575v they were nice and refunded me.

[knight_toolworks]

got the new blowers today and got one hooked up. the two new starters come tomorrow so got to rewire it all Monday. I think my first blower had issues right out of the box. it got so how it stunk up my shop with hot motor/oil stink and it got less and less over the weeks. but it ran hotter all the time too. but it was also much noisier. it was 95dbs without the muffer and about 85 running the exhaust out of my shop. the slightly smaller blower was about 75 dbs without the muffler and with the exhaust out the shop 70 db's. thats quite a difference with only 40cfms difference.
after a bit of reading it seems the blower mufflers are only rated to reduce noise by 5b's all I really noticed is a pitch difference from higher to lower. I will try this type of muffler it costs far less http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWHR0TS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
I also found my relief valve is coming unadjusted. will tighten it better. but it is getting replaced with a much better one in a few days.

[Brady Watson]

Regens typically run in the 70-85dB range. They are fairly quiet compared to other pumps.

Keep in mind that adding any type of muffler or tubing on the exhaust side will both generate more heat and reduce CFM, due to flow restriction.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

yes that tells me the first pump had issues from the start it was so much louder then expected. Ya I know I will loose some flow but I got to get the hot air out of my shop in summer there is no way to cool my shop so I can't have hot air blowing into it. that was another reason not use the black box venting them creates too much heat and they still blow a fair mount of heat around to keep cool. changing from flex duck hose to 4" pvc will do the most but I want to get my setup all worked out before changing over. then I will put the muffler on the ned so it does not rumble so much.

[bleeth]

Only a little off thread topic but still on your issues try this:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_22?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=portable+air+conditioner&sprefix=portable+air+condition%2Caps%2C175

[knight_toolworks]

Only a little off thread topic but still on your issues try this:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_22?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=portable+air+conditioner&sprefix=portable+air+condition%2Caps%2C175
but where do I pump the hot air from it? I should post some pics of my shop. it is in the basement of this old building it is concrete walls floor and ceiling. it is a block in size. I am in the back corner.when I blow the hot air from my blowers it just goes outside my door above my doors. I have a fan blowing in those doors. with the blower vented out the door it is about 78 in my shop while working usually goes up 2 or 3 degrees. but with the black box it gets round 85 depending on how hot the day is. the ceilings are 10' I think but all that hot air heats other peoples shop up a tiny bit too.
I would need two of those air conditioners to make a dent in my shop and thats without a heat source blowing hot air. so to get rid of the heat get durability and loose some noise the blowers are the way to go. having two smaller ones lets me control the heat a bit better.