Reality Check

[LDA]

Hi Experienced ShopBot owners,
I am setting up my new basement work shop and plan to get a ShopBot. I am trying to be realistic on the purchase. Should I get a Desktop or Buddy? I have a 600 sqft basement shop with 8 foot ceilings. The stairs to the basement are straight from the garage. The doors are 36 wide. Getting a Buddy down there would require disassembling it and re-assembling it. I can handle that part of the setup if I go that route. I am going to use the machine as a hobby to make guitars and stuff. It will not be for production.

My reality check question comes with the sound and size.

First can the other members of the house live with the sound of the industrial spindle cutting wood or plastic? I could build some kind of accordion house to cover the machine while it runs.

Second, is a Buddy too large for that space?

Any feed back is appreciated.

LDA

[Brady Watson]

R30 or better in the floor is highly advised. Add a layer of homosote sound deadening board if you really want to quiet things down. It is going to give off some sound no matter what, but the insulation is pretty much non-negotiable.

The other thing that you will want is a spindle...routers are really annoying in enclosed spaces & loud. Spindle are also loud when being worked hard or when the harmonics of cutting just can't be avoided.

I don't know what kind of guitars you are making, but acoustic guitars tend to require a long stroke Z axis to be able to fully resolve the height of where the neck meets the body. This is impossible to do on a DT or BT without some modification. The DT can be made longer with aftermarket parts. The BT can be purchased with a 12" Z, (which really means 6" of material thickness + 6" of bit overall length). A standard BT gantry can be lifted up with some 3" AL extrusions and some splice plates for around $200...or less, which will allow you to do acoustic guitar necks and other thick/tall parts. This is a bolt on deal - you can always put it back to stock. It all depends on your needs.

In regards to the space - no problem on the BT. I have personally installed these machines in attics (garage and house), basements and through narrow doorways. Not a big deal. When it comes to buying a CNC, I always recommend going larger when you can...although, the DT is one sweet machine with better resolution than the BT, which means double duty for doing intricate inlays etc. While inquiring about the BT, I would ask SB about their larger DT which is supposed to come out soon. I believe it is 24x32, just like the BT32, but with leadscrews made for finer work.

Hope that helps...

-B

[Joe Porter]

It would be a shame to have to disassemble a Buddy since they come completely assembled from the factory. If you take the PowerStick (Table) off, you might be able to turn it sideways and slide it down the stairs in one piece. This, of course would take a lot of planning and help. The Buddy is not too large for your space. You can increase the length of the PowerStick and maybe get too large, but that is optional. As far as noise, I use a water cooled spindle and when I am carving a 3D object, you can barley hear the machine. The only noise it makes is the sound of the stepper motors running which is pretty neat. But, when cutting wood, the bit can make a lot of noise, but those are usually short runs. I am partial to the Buddy, since I own one and wouldn't trade it for any other machine. If I did buy another machine, such as a Desktop, I would keep the Buddy also. Both machines are only limited to the width of the gantry (side to side), but not the length of the cut. With the open ends, you can slide your material through and make as long a piece as you need. This is called "Tiling" and is an option in the software that comes with the machine. The Desktop is probably the most precise of the two, but the Buddy can handle heavier slabs of material. It's frame and blue parts are the same as the largest machines and is built like a tank. I would study the sales brochures and specifications and try to decide which is best. Either one will make you very happy. Hope this helps...joe

[tri4sale]

I run a 4x8 Gantry with Router in my garage, with just a single insulated wall between garage and office area. Also right next to that spot is Jet dust collector. Noise thru the wall is a low rumble, not bad enough to annoy anyone in office when I'm cutting. Might bug them if they were trying to go to bed, but they've never complained about noise from DC or bot when watching TV or working on computer.

Why not consider the full size 4x8 Gantry. Opens up what you can do without having to tile, you could just assemble the bot in the basement.

My garage is only about 16x20, about 320 sqft, so your 600 sqft should be plenty for any bot you get. I considered a Buddy, but after getting the power stick for full size sheets, I'd have to run with garage door open, and the cost wasn't that far off from the cost of a 4x8 ShopBot.

[LDA]

It doesn't look like my replies landed. Maybe I wasn't logged in, ugh. Many thanks to guys for the great perspectives.

Bradly, As for sound proofing I was thinking of using Roxul in the ceiling and one standing wall. Here is a video, https://youtu.be/YitQQJrksYI

The large DT would be idea if I could increas the Z axis. I have access to a machine shop to make spacers and would be willing to buy an extended Z-rack. Does the software allow for changes to the length of travel past the original specs?

Joe, The water cooled spindle sounds like a winner. Where do you get one?

Daniel, 4x8 is really 9x14 with a little working space. That is too intimidating at this point in time. Keep encouraging me though, I have other space options if I get really into this.

[jerry_stanek]

have you thought about a 4 x 4 unit

[tlempicke]

I built an enclosure for my tabletop and noise is not a problem. You can not really hear the machine run till you are cutting something and even then it is not loud. I plan to use the machine in my condo!
Look under virtual show and tell 2015
or maybe here http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?21715-Tabletop-Enclosure

[scottp55]

Peter,
Standard spindle with Desktop IS quieter than almost any DC you can get, when bit hits the wood is different, but Many bits cut fairly quietly as well.
My Desktop/spindle is 35' from home theater separated by 9"insulated wall, but only a regular steel fire door to shop. Many hours cutting while people watched movies, and only asked to keep door firmly shut/ NOT to cut with 1/4" Downcut I hadn't quieted down/and to keep the Fein TurboII at power setting below 5.
Look at #25 on this thread and maybe ask Shopbot what can be done for you with a Desktop "Max"?
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?19939-Any-word-on-a-z-axis-upgrade-kit&highlight=DESKTOP

When Kevin mentions Max, he's referring to this thread,
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?20271-Desktop-with-9-5-inch-Z-modification

Max does beautiful work and just upgraded to spindle,
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?21734-Spindle-warm-up-question

two cents
scott

[chiloquinruss]

I got to use the new DT MAX while in the booth at Maker Faire, what a machine. Like its smaller cousins its lead screw technology (very fine work) but it has the advantage of being dual lead screws. Very smooth and very powerful. Call Durham they'll get ya' goin'! ;) Russ

[LDA]

tlempicke, That is good news. I want to use this in the basement, and sound comfort for my wife is a big concern of mine.

Scott, Those were some great links. Now I am really excited. I was a bit concerned about the small Z axis. Do you think that the 6" indexer could be paired with this Max-Z Desktop configuration? It would make a really powerful 4 axis machine.

[LDA]

Train Guy,
Is the DT Max the same machine that Scott and Max were discussing? Or, was it the new Z extension from SB?

[Brady Watson]

Train Guy,
Is the DT Max the same machine that Scott and Max were discussing? Or, was it the new Z extension from SB?

DT Max = 24x32" Desktop with 5.5" Z

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/image.php?u=8067&dateline=1360026106 (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/member.php?8067-Max-Girouard)
Max Girouard (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/member.php?8067-Max-Girouard)


Is the name of the guy that made a longer Z for his DT2418.

Early DT machines had a 4" Z stroke. An upgrade became available to increase it to the same 5.5" as the newer DT and DT Max machines.

-B

[Joe Porter]

LDA, I got my water cooled spindle at http://ugracnc.com/ . I think it is a good choice for the bigger machines. But, if I was going to get the Desktop I would go with the one that ShopBot sells for that machine. It is a true spindle and runs on 110 Volts and you can just plug it into the wall.....joe

[scottp55]

Peter,
No idea on indexer.
Indexer (and for that matter a LOT of stuff I don't personally do), I'm totally inexperienced and have to do a "letstalkshopbot" "subject***" Google searches and read a lot.