Buddy to the rescue

[erik_f]

So, I'm sitting home cooking some dinner. Its around 6:30 and I've just gotten home. I get a call from someone I've done work for in the past. He tells me his usual guy's CNC is down (this machine is at least $100K with tool changer)and he needs a part cut by 6:30am the next morning. I say sure. Come to find out the part is too big in one direction to fit on the BT48...so some indexing had to be done. All told I ended up finishing at around 3am...plenty of time to spare! I didn't say anything about price, so the next day he calls me to thank me for banging it out so fast and saving the job. This is when he asks me what I needed for the job. I asked him what his other guy was charging him for it, he said $80-$90 and then offered me $150. I guess my question is would you feel insulted if you stayed up all night working until 3am on a last minute job for $150? The job wasn't a hard job, but it had many small parts that needed to be just right. I really don't see this being an $80 routing job for anyone...especially a guy with a $100,000 router. Add in the fact that its last minute, I really felt an offer of at least $250 would have been made. Maybe the guy with the big machine's vacuum hold down would have held those 1"x2" parts down and he wouldn't have had nearly the same amount of set up and clean up time that I had to go through. I ended up having to use Brady's old carpet tape trick to keep the small parts from moving around. I guess I should just be happy to have the extra money at tax time, maybe I'm just out of line?

[ljdm]

Never assume the customer will understand what you go through to get the job done. Although they appreciate the effort, last-minute, etc, they usually care more about their bottom line - cost. You hate to be this way when doing a favor, but unless you set the price, you are open to this kind of thing. But at least it gave you more time to bond with your 'Bot.

[jamesb]

Erik, the value in this experience now is learning a good lesson. In our business we do a lot of contract work and nothing gets started without a signed document detailing price and exact requirements. Even if it was being done same day, the 5 minutes it takes to do this is well worth the effort. This was not always the case but was learned the hard way too.

The worst situation is the one you encountered, where it's a guy you know who has a rush and you feel that it will probably be dealt with equitably and just get on with it. It will probably seem obvious now but always spec out the job and price even if its a small job and have them sign even a hand written document to agree to it. The other good rule of thumb is to have a rush charge - this might be 25% - 50% over standard price (or more). That will do two things, first it will check to make sure the job is really a rush or perhaps when presented with this the customer will suddenly realise they do not need it the next day after all. Second it will help you feel like you were compensated for the disruption that this rush will cause to your work schedule or home life.

Your definitely entitled in this situation to feel annoyed but without that prior agreement the best you can do is to make a mental note of it so you remember next time you have a similar situation. Sorry if this all seems obvious in hind-sight.

Cheers,
James

[beacon14]

If he offered $150 there was nothing stopping you from explaining the amount of time you spent, up all night, etc, and that you feel a more appropriate price would be more in the line of, say $xxx (insert a little more than you actually want here) and see what he says. As Lou said unless he was up 'till 3AM with you he probably has no idea how long it took. Never hurts to ask.

The worst part is that if you accepted his price he now has his own idea of what he can get you to do at what cost and it will be much harder to increase your prices very much later.

The other guy may have already made some of these parts for him and thus the setup/toolpathing was already paid for.

[Brady Watson]

Very good points, James.

I'll add the following:

One of the biggest hurdles that most botters have to overcome is their own perceptions about themselves & their work. By this I mean, how much value do you put on your work? AND how much confidence do you have to stick to the price that you feel your work is worth? I have witnessed many people starting out that make excuses or more accurately, apologize for their work as if it isn't good enough. The concept of not good enough can exist in your own mind, even if you are a top-notch machinist.

It is important that your customers realize that you are not doing charity work. And that you realize that --> YOU <-- set the price. I often do rush jobs & overnight jobs for other companies who have CNCs. I tell them up front that there will be a rush charge, and this is outlined in a proposal, with a guestimated price for the work to be done. If they balk about the rush fee, then that is a customer that I don't want to really do business with, since they basically are telling you that your time is worth squat. If you are really hurting for cash, then you can negotiate with them...but the real point here is that YOU must set the price OR refuse/correct their payment 'offering' - otherwise, you have not honored yourself by sticking to your pricing schedule. This sort of thing can really take the wind out of your sails.

The other thing is...you don't tell these guys what equipment you are running. It's none of their business and I have found over the years that people who are making payments on a $350,000 CNC seem to think that your time is worth way less than theirs if they find out you are running a $5000 CNC. If your heart & mind are into doing the best job you possibly can, then the proof is in the parts.

-B

[erik_f]

The first time I spoke with him, and he offered $150 I was pretty annoyed, so I just said ok and hung up so as not to sound like a jerk. I called him back this morning and told him how I felt and we came to a number of $300 which I'm ok with. Lesson learned though. From now on I need to be more up front about the work I do and not so tentative about getting what my time is worth. Thanks for the input guys.

[Brady Watson]

Good for you Erik!

-B

[knight_toolworks]

some jobs can't be charged by time too. made some simpled fluted panels for a fellow woodworker we share a basement.
took all of 15 minutes to make both. I owed him money so it was even but it was a job worth even more then 120 a hour would have netted. and it would have been a good deal at 50.00