Q. for Scott P About Bits

[gerryv]

Hi Scott,
Dumb question warning:o
I'm busy sorting out all my stuff in case I find a buyer for my machine. I bought these bits a few years ago and have never used them. As I recall, they're engraving bits. Knowing you do a lot of fine detail work I thought - if you use Onsrud and only if you have time - you might recognize if they are for fairly general use or perhaps more specialized so I'd know what to call them.
Thanks kindly,
Gerry

[bleeth]

Whipping out my Onsrud catalog:
All the 37 series are engraving bits and are designed to use on anything pretty much (different feed/speed for different materials)
The 52- is a ball nose for 3-d, also useable in pretty much anything from wood to hard plastic and could be used on aluminum
The 56 straight bit is designed for hard plastic as is the 63-707's

[scottp55]

Manana Gerry,
Got a gift from a Boston area Shopboter of a .25" 30 with .01 tip for a demo day(thanks Josh) I've worn out doing 3D's in Bloodwood and Walnut.
LOVE it and just got 3 more for against grain 1 pass, no roughing, dished models for 1-2.25" buttons using .V3M's
I'll check yours in AM.
Long day and afraid I'll mess up.
feel free,
scottkport at gmail dot com/
Scott

[willmorgan]

Gerry,
Do you have a price you want for the bits?

[scottp55]

Gerry,
I only have the 37-01 and 37-23
37-01 is what I used for all my VCarved inlays in Walnut,Hard and Curly Maple,Padauk,Bloodwood,Cherry and it worked GREAT! Another guy on Vectric was going to try the larger flats so he could increase stepover from his .01"flat on his 37-03, but not sure how big a flat he tried. Personally thinking a .02" flat might be it before running into problems with male vs female, but don't know.
It had no problems cutting at a flat depth of .2" and no tearout at 17K(see Padauk pic)
Next VInlay I'm going to try the 37-23 as some guys are liking 30 and 45 degrees because you can sand more without changing the tiny details(shallow cuts) shapes as much as a 60 does.
Been using the 37-23 for very small 3D buttons and such to preserve fine detail and skip roughing cuts(see Owls and Loon pics).
These are all 37-01 pics
Your wider flats might be very good for larger stuff than mine.
Hope it helped at all.
scott

[scottp55]

37-23 pics.
Just showing that they're good for more than engraving.
scott

[Davo]

How long do those take with that bit

How is it setup in your tool pallet?

[scottp55]

Which ones Davo?
Loons are down to about 2 hours for a batch of 20 without the cutout.
Owls were 20 minutes each on a 1.75" Maple kids block.
Still haven't changed VR settings though, and cut pretty conservatively as everything was spoken for and didn't want to experiment on those.
Vinlays I'd have to check, but they were all experiments.
Only 1Flute and stuck to 17K(18K max on Desktop spindle and don't like to run anything at max) so not real fast, looking for a good 2F with a .015" flat to speed things up for production.
Used to setup in database as a VBit for both, but now in VCP8 I'm just changing them over to an actual engraving bit. Better previews on stepovers.
scott

[Davo]

Finishing passes allow vbits?

I've been running just 13k

I didn't notice much difference running faster

I think I use 8% stepover

[scottp55]

With VCP8 you can. I seem to remember in Partworks3D I had to describe them as a .02"BallNose, and because I couldn't go more the 99% stepover, the times Killed me. Hadn't gotten very far getting reacquainted with Partworks again before 8 came along with a bunch of Aspire tools and the ability to change the toolpaths, and oh so many more options.
So long as the bit stays cool and I'm getting the cut quality I want, once I find a sweet spot,I'll increase feed and speed proportionally up to between about 14-16K usually. Doesn't always apply, but usually good for our small stuff.
The four settings I used for that Loon test, was almost arbitrary settings based on a couple scrap trials. Basically just to see what difference identical toolpaths did with the 3 different bits.
You can't quite see it in the lousy pics, but the true 30 degree VBit left striations that were quite visible. I left these unsanded to stick on the wall for comparison.
Only a stiff boar bristle brushing with a Very small amount of 80/20 polymerized(Earthpaint) linseed/beeswax wood butter I mixed up and am kinda liking:)
Going to try using the little 30degree Kyocera with the .012" flat on a Celtic Vinlay button done on a dome next. Very time intensive and think I went 6% stepover now that I've got that bit described as an engraving bit and working at Maximum(50X slower) resolution and can see better what the step marks look like in preview.
With Bloodwood dulling bits fairly fast, and the sharpness of the bit so important, much less painless to swap a $4 bit out.
I AM buying 3 new Onsrud 37-23's this week for the 2 machines though:)
Oops...Third pic should read".012"flat"

[Brady Watson]

You'll get much better results with a ball end mill with a diameter similar to the flat end on the engraving bit. In this case a 1/64" ball would be pretty close.

To really illustrate the differences visually, scale up everything 10x. Scale up the conical tool with flat to .120 (1/8" close enough) and model 10x. Then run a sim with a .120 or 1/8" square end mill (same result as conical tool because 3D only cares about the tip) and then run a toolpath with the same size ball end mill. The results will be clear.

Another reason you don't want to run a squared off tool compared to a ball when 3D finishing is that it can cause gouging on the surface...and then of course there is the time factor due to the tight stepover. A ball run @ 10% will look better than an engraving tool at 5%.

-B

[Davo]

Thanks for the tips and info guys

I've been using the 1/8" tapered ball nose at 2.5ips on 13k with 8% in 3/4" oak

I've been pleased with the results and time

Usually 10"-12" oval pieces from the clip art from aspire take me an hour or less with Brady's new settings

[scottp55]

Thanks Brady...Will do.
But I haven't even bought a 32'nd Ball Mill Yet:)
Money's still tight, and everything I buy has to be duplicated for the Northern Desktop.
3D buttons are time consuming so not really bread and butter for us.
The engraving bits we can use for almost everything.
Just playing with what I have.
I'll scope out the sims.
Thanks again,
scott

[gerryv]

Hi Will,
Not at this point as I've committed to including them with the whole pkg. to a couple of fellows interested in my machine. I'd be happy to let you know if I decide to break up my offering but would prefer not to do that as yet. Thanks kindly for asking.
Best, Gerry