Mozaik software

[jTr]

Anyone try the Mozaik software yet?
I am a 9 year veteran user of Sketchup and would love to keep working with that platform, which Mozaik is based upon. My clientele is accustomed to full 3D rendering from me, whether a stand alone piece of furniture, or a room full of cabinetry.

Asked this question a few years ago and hoping someone has tried since then and can interject comments about their experience with it. I am experiencing exponential growth in the kitchen/bath/closet/laundry market and finding it more urgent to streamline layout/design and automate the nesting/vectoring/part- file generation process.

( I realize VCP now includes sketchup model import, but I just cannot seem to get the hang of it. Seems it is best suited to single items as opposed to a room full ?)

Any suggestions appreciated.

Jeff

[dlcw]

Yes, I tried it a couple of years ago for about 6 months. It is powerful. The problem I had was the arrogance and behavior of the owners who provide "support". They were very short and abrupt with me when I would email or call for help. They do NOT take any criticism of their software as constructive.

So, in short, the product is good, the support, not so good.

I can do as much and more with eCabinets (free) plus I have the SbLink to output from eCabs and cut parts on my Shopbot. I didn't see anything like this with Mozaik.

[jTr]

.....and cut parts on my Shopbot. I didn't see anything like this with Mozaik.

This is one reason I'm re-visiting. They do now show the ability to automatically nest and generate G-code. Upon closer inspection, Shopbot is present in their list of supported post-processors. This leads me to believe there's a strong likelihood that someone with a Shopbot has run the program to it's full potential.

jeff

[joe]

Jeff,

I have no idea what this program offers. Would you please show us some of the drawings you've been providing your clients to give us a better idea what to expect.

Joe

[jTr]

Joe, here's a fairly simple one.
26319

Jeff

[Brady Watson]

This looks like lease only software. $125/mo for the top product.

I don't like the rental/lease paradigm because you are constantly milked every month. For some, it might make sense, especially those that can't afford a high buy-in cost of some software. If you are making the ducks every month, it is a write off. What happens when times are slow? Do you want that nut on top of everything else? Something for you to consider on top of everything else.

I guess I am old school, but I am boycotting all software that doesn't offer a permanent/perpetual license. I vote with my dollar.

-B

[Davo]

Brady - I hate that also - in fact Autodesk is switching over to a token system - almost a pay as you go / what you use type system

It will end up costing the engineering companies here more

[jTr]

I don't like the rental/lease paradigm because you are constantly milked every month. For some, it might make sense, especially those that can't afford a high buy-in cost of some software. If you are making the ducks every month, it is a write off. What happens when times are slow? Do you want that nut on top of everything else? Something for you to consider on top of everything else.

I guess I am old school, but I am boycotting all software that doesn't offer a permanent/perpetual license. I vote with my dollar.





Amen to that!

Good news:
- After 3 month trial, you can purchase key code monthly. If you don't need it constantly, you can drop it and pick back up when needed.
- If you choose a full commitment, your monthly payments are accruing towards full ownership, eventually

I felt the monthly commitment was too much a few years ago. Now becoming overwhelmed, and it looks much more attractive. Biggest concern is no real references, especially from the ShopBot community- still hoping for someone who's tried recently...

[joe]

jTr

Is it possible to use this program to create less rigid artwork. This looks like etch-a-sketch. What most artist are looking for are programs that flow and doesn't look like it was done on a chopping block.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[bleeth]

Joe:

This is fairly common basic cabinet rendering similar to that by cabinet engineering programs.
By definition, they are more functional as part dimension determination tools that also output the code for cutting and are not as good at artistic rendering as some programs can be.
Typically the material palette in them is limited to a variety of wood species and some colors, as well as some variety of counter and floor materials just to make them a bit more pretty.
Their purpose is to give the typical client, who is not very good at visualization, more of an idea of what their cabinetry will look like then just architectural elevations and sections typical from AutoCAD.
Mozaic was founded by one of the Cabinet Vision founders, from what I have heard.
With the typical decent cabinet program costing up to 20k for full cnc output and rendering the attraction of monthly rental can look good.
E-Cabinets for Shop-botters, with it's low cost for the link is a much better bang for the buck.
In fact, it's pretty amazing that you can get a fully functional cabinet program for that little when checking out the competition. Ted did a great service when he made the deal with Ken at Thermwood to work out a way for e-cabinets, which was originally intended only to output code for Thermwoods, to also be useable by Shop-bot owners.

[jTr]

Joe,
Ouch! - Guess I stepped right into that by posting an image!
It used to wow people that you could have any such visuals at all. Now, it is expected to look photo realistic and the etch-a-sketch comparison is occurring more regularly. I guess we won't be happy until a model can be projected as a hologram for a virtual walk through - LOL!

Actually, you can use rendering plugins that transform Sketchup images to photo-realistic looking images that are comparable to the $35,000 variety of cabinet production software. I've not used these plug-ins extensively, as at this point, most of my clientele are satisfied with what you see above. Perhaps I should be - maybe my clients are silently thinking what you're saying, so I honestly appreciate the frankness. Unfortunately, all other software of this type that I've seen produces a similarly cartoon-ish look prior to applying photo-rendering processors, and I've definitely seen worse.

Main point here is to accurately produce a technically correct model for client's approval and efficiently graduate to the process of producing a room full of cabinets. While I have a few projects interjected in my schedule that fall closer to the realm of art work, a set of utility cabinets such as these is not, and practicality must take priority.

What program do you currently use, or are you hand drafting for proofing a project?

jeff

[joe]

The standard of the trade is Illustrator and Photoshop which I use but one of my favorites is Flexisign. I'm faster with the later since I've used if for years.

Joe

[dlcw]

eCabinets can do some pretty amazing 3D renderings using lighting techniques. There are some incredible renderings, I've seen, that look more like a photograph of the finished product then a computer rendering.

http://www.thermwood.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10730

Like Dave said, most of this type of software is geared toward the production shop to develop cutlists and dimensional drawings. 3D rendering is not high on the priority list.

[jTr]

Sorry guys, but I've tried e-cabs and poured over the tutorials diligently for weeks when I got my 'Bot 4 years ago. Sketchup has me spoiled- I know Joe thinks the screen shot I posted is poor- I can't imagine his reply to a drafting stage image from ecabs. Further, the editing is beyond tedious for me. Just too restrictive for most of the custom work I do - I was shocked at the tedium of simply adding an access hole to a cabinet side for wire routing.

Meanwhile, just trying to unlock some keys to automate what I've spent years learning before investing in an entirely new system. Up to this point, the trade of slow conversion to part files from Sketchup has been worth it for it's drafting strengths, including ability to download 3-D models of name brand appliances, plumbing fixtures - (even Eames chairs!) in seconds for highly accurate modeling of kitchens, baths and built-ins. Perhaps if I started with a CNC the day I opened my doors, a different software would have been selected...

jeff

[Tim Lucas]

[QUOTE I was shocked at the tedium of simply adding an access hole to a cabinet side for wire routing. [/QUOTE]

Many people try to overthink ecabs, its really simple - take the side into part editor add the hole and your done -

myself I am so thankful I can get this powerful software for the price. When I started my shop the renderings was what I knew I had to have so my customers could see what I was thinking. I build furniture and other stuff besides cabinets and its all through ecabs.

Just my thoughts
Tim

[modus workshop]

I've been using Mozaik on the monthly "rental" platform since the 3 month trial ended in March. Basically, If I'm not doing cabinet work I don't have to pay for it -but I also can't access it either once the monthly code expires.. It is pretty in-depth, but does have some buggy traits. I have issues with customized layouts disappearing after changing tabs, or going from 3D view (sketchup) back into Mozaik. I've just made it a point to save every time I make a small change. I haven't decided weather or not to keep using it after October.

Nathan

[jTr]

Nathan,
Very much appreciate your reply - your experience is what I"d hoped to hear. Is the workflow of nesting, to SB post-processor, to successful machining of parts, reasonably smooth? Had you any previous experience/proficiency with Sketch Up, or was Mozaik your introduction to it?

Thanks!

Jeff

[modus workshop]

Jeff,

Workflow is solid. The SB post has been flawless. I just save the gcode file to a network drive and retrieve the files via the station at my CNC. The nesting is great and flexible. It (rightly) throws everything together to get the highest yield per sheet. You can then make adjustments like placing doors side by side for grain matching etc. It can also square and cut-off scraps and even catalog them for later use if desired. Cut quality is great as well. The tooling database is intuitive and easy to modify. I have previous experience with Sketchup, but it's not my goto for CAD work.

Have you had a look at CabinetSense? http://www.cabinetsensesoftware.com/home

I'm interested in this as well.

[jTr]

Nathan,
Cabinet Sense looks very appealing, as I already utilize Cutlist Plus and VCarve Pro to get things done. So, why pay $75 a month for what I'm already using? Because I'd be a long time working on reinventing the wheel they've got rolling here.

Two bottlenecks encountered keep me in the computer far too long. One is speed of room layout, the other is re-sizing multi-component objects such as cabinet doors by scaling. In it's native form, Sketchup will distort profiles and thicknesses in the process of a simple scaling function. I've been studying dynamic components in Sketchup to control this, but it goes very deep, and clearly these guys have done the homework and added several more plugins to get the wheels greased. Looks like a well-tuned/ hot-rod version of my current processes.

Another key need is for rapid automation of flattening/nesting and part file generation. While I've been working directly with Vectric to get their Sketchup gadget to work, it is clear it does not. Holes and dados are terminally connected to cabinet cutout layer, regardless of the acrobatics I try in Sketchup. Vectric must be stumped, as they've given me a generalized response, and ceased answering further questions from me on the topic of the Sketchup importing feature.

Could I learn to generate dynamic components that scale properly without distortion? Could I ultimately figure out how to get Sketchup working in harmony with VCPro? Sure, eventually - they obviously have figured it out, but it is urgent that I get back to woodworking!

At this point I think I'll give this a go and keep you posted. Very much appreciate the input and suggestion.

jeff

[jTr]

Vectric must be stumped, as they've given me a generalized response, and ceased answering further questions from me on the topic of the Sketchup importing feature.

Okay- must correct myself here. Just received reply from Vectric- they're shorthanded and apologized for slow response. I apologize for griping here.
He got it to work, but still trying to get clarity about how/when and where to create separate layers for holes/dados. I do this within a component, but that blows the whole VCPro recognition of layers. Seems I'm supposed to copy holes to the layer outside the component, which would generally render advantages of components in Sketchup useless. Flustered, but almost there- now waiting for clarification on how they got it to work and verify I can do so while maintaining component usage as I currently work in Sketchup.

We need a tutorial on Sketchup drafting that is more compatible with VCarve Pro.