New laser product

[Davo]

Anyone heard of this new laser? Glow Forge

Has some very nice features if it ends up being a quality machine

Mainly it's cameras and ability to scan an object and engrave/trace its profile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysCaqh38JVQ&app=desktop

[tri4sale]

Looks interesting, they've got a really good marketing team promoting it :)

My big issue is it is cloud based, so I wonder what happens when internet is laggy or down, and what happens when they decide to upgrade the software running it and suddenly you've got to pay to update your Glow Forge or it stops working, or they decide to charge a monthly fee for access. One of the videos I watched mentioned that they'll be selling material to use that's preset in the software, so is it going to be like a razor blade and you have to pay thru the gills for materials the "approved for Glow Forge use" and if you use anything else you get no support.

Will be interesting to see how feedback is when it's released. It's going to expose Lasers to mass market like never before, which will be interesting. Suddenly Suzy Homemaker has a laser on her dining room table, cutting out her Christmas ornaments :) Or she decides to carve the back of her MacBook and ooops lasers a hole right thru it!

There was a forum on Sawmill Creek about it a few weeks ago, got so heated they ended up locking the message.

[Davo]

Ha!

Yea when bias kicks in thinking out of the box goes out the window

Many people think they know best because they refuse to learn more or experiment outside of their own comfort zone - so it's their way or the wrong way - I feel like I'm talking about my dad...

I'm sort of the thinking that I like to learn on my own to discover maybe a method someone else didn't try

If I'm taught it can only go as far as that persons knowledge - which is fine - but only brings me to their view and thinking

Which is why I like this forum - a gumbo of information

[jerry_stanek]

With cloud based control software and untested hardware may never make it to market.

[harryball]

I will be watching this closely, but I'm not so gungho as to preorder. I am with Jerry, will it ever make it to market?

[Davo]

Main question - Are there any Chinese parts

[tri4sale]

I will be watching this closely, but I'm not so gungho as to preorder. I am with Jerry, will it ever make it to market?


With $28,000,000 in pre-orders I really hope so.


Main question - Are there any Chinese parts

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it has Chinese parts, they talk about it using cell phone tech and other, to get to that price point I can't imagine they don't use chinese parts.

Only 6 month warranty on the basic, so that makes me think they've gone cheap on components if they won't stand behind them for long.

[Brady Watson]

Read the fine print for ANY cloud-based software.

Ignorance is bliss. All your base are belong to us.

-B

[myxpykalix]

If it becomes popular enough like an iphone or other things you know someone will figure out how to hack it to make it local instead of cloud based....maybe?

[Davo]

Here is that info - good to have it in this discussion - this info seems more for their product vs the cloud side though

Intellectual Property. Glowforge and its licensors own all intellectual property rights in the Products. If Glowforge accepts your pre-order for a Product, you will acquire no interest or rights in Glowforge’s intellectual property, and your use of the Product will be subject to the Glowforge Terms of Service and other additional license terms and restrictions that will be provided together with the Product. Glowforge reserves all rights in and to the Products not granted expressly in these Terms or other additional license terms.

[Brady Watson]

Whoever writes a contract, does so with their own interests in mind, not yours.

There are 3D scanners, printers and software out there, cloud based in one form or another, that as part of their terms of service, require you to waive your IP rights. THEY own the data, not you.

Furthermore, they prohibit certain things from being scanned, displayed and processed by their cloud server. This is probably to skirt liability. "We'll tell you what you can and cannot do/scan/make/think."

If you are working on your own project that you created on a napkin (or scanned your grandfather's artwork) and you use their services to process it, you may no longer be the sole owner of the data, according to the deliberate wording in some of these contracts. It isn't in there by mistake.

Caveat Emptor.

-B

[Davo]

Brady thanks for the info

Now that kills my excitement for this thing....

[myxpykalix]

What a buzzkill!...lol :Dbut he's right. I suppose if you are doing stuff for yourself that there likely isn't much interest to anyone else like a sign for the kid "Betty's Room" or some such.
But if you are creating something for a client as a prototype for the market and they commandeer the design and sell it to someone else i can see that as a problem.

[stump]

Concerning rights to designs, Glowforge stated:

"Unless you decide to share your designs more broadly, our only rights to your designs are what we need to display them on your screen and put them on your printer. Our friendly neighborhood lawyer is starting to work up the details, but that's the gist of it."

The idea is to have an online catalog using the Shapeways model, where designers upload and sell to other Glowforge owners.

They have also agreed to release the firmware under a GPL license which should allow for protection should they go belly up. I expect some hacker will work around the internet requirement and allow you to use a server to feed stored programs to the unit. Of course they have also stated that the warranty is void if you modify the firmware, and rightly so.

They seem to be addressing concerns through the forum and have been very good about replying to questions. They were well funded with over $9 million invested before they even launched, which is why the initial goal was only $100k. A lot of the funding was from the suppliers of the hardware, the magic will be in the software.

I did go in with my son and pre-order one which we probably won't see until next August. I plan on using it in addition to the Chinese laser in the shop, not as a replacement. We purchased the PRO model because the standard unit is air cooled and will not work in continuous operation. The Pro model has built in cooling, better optics, and a pass though slot which allows for cutting larger items. What sold me (aside from my son's enthusiasm), were the cameras and their ability to address the things that are limiting or annoying on my unit. From the sealed optics, to the camera alignment, to kerf adjusting for mating pieces, to being able to preview and like up items on screen, being able to cut or engrave from both sides with the software taking care of the alignment, it just looks like more fun. Ask me in 12 months and I'll let ya know if it was a good idea or not. :D

[Davo]

I was curious about cooling - I did not really see it

Was it water cooled?

If not I would be cautious

Also a blower system for it

In my current laser I use a big squirrel cage blower from harbor freight to rid the smoke

Would suck all the A/c from a house to

[stump]

It is liquid cooled, they haven't stated what the liquid is, probably because they still haven't decided. The initial design is a sealed system running the liquid around the tube then to a heat exchanger located in the exhaust stream. It is designed to cool in ambient air at 70 degrees F. The pro model has a larger heat exchanger near as I can tell. They have promised to share the thermal curves once testing is completed.

The unit is small, so the blower doesn't need to be that large. Nice thing about the pro is that it comes with the charcoal filter which should help with the smell. I know that even with the blower venting outdoors I can still smell my Chinese laser when I cut acrylic or worse yet, rubber...:eek: It's one of the upgrades I need to get for my current laser - larger blower.

[Davo]

Wonder if it can use a chiller as we get 100 degree temps in the summer

I have my massive blower on a 12x20 laser.... Overkill but smoke free and my mirrors stay clean clean

In fact I will probably turn off my air compressor the vacuum obliterates the smoke so well

[Rick W]

https://www.reddit.com/r/lasercutting/comments/3ms7ld/my_kinda_review_of_the_glowforge_3d_laser_printer/

[Davo]

I read their mirrors self align

That alone will make me purchase one if it works as well or better than these Chinese models when reviews start

[coryatjohn]

I'm weak. Just pre-ordered the pro model.

[Davo]

lol

I will wait for your response when it comes in and you test it

What's the eta?

[myxpykalix]

Big Boys and their toys......have you noticed that as we get older the price of our toys only increases....

[tri4sale]

Big Boys and their toys......have you noticed that as we get older the price of our toys only increases....

Yeah, a few people mentioned that to me as they helped me unload my ShopBot....

[coryatjohn]

>> have you noticed that as we get older the price of our toys only increases....

Actually, if you think of it in terms of present value, the price of toys (for me anyway) has decreased. I remember as a young boy saving my pennies, collecting cans and selling golf balls I dredged up out of a pond to buy some insignificant toy. Now, I just go online and click a few times and it's mine. It's all about present value of money.

[VanIslanddan]

Hi John, just wondering how the laser turned out I am currently in the research stage and have been going through old posts.
Thanks, Dan

[garyr6]

And if the software issues were not enough to give you pause, look hard at the hardware promises.

[stump]

The latest from Glowforge is that instead of everyone having their unit by the end of June, it will be the end of December for the pre-orders, and after that for everyone else. On the bright side, they do finally have the beta units out there and they have been posting updates from the beta testers regularly.

[coryatjohn]

I canceled my order. They delayed my shipment an entire year! Having $5,000 on the line for a company that has a good chance of just floating down the sewer is to me a bad investment. I'd rather wait for it become an item on Amazon and pay 20% more than risk $5,000 while they get their act together. It seemed like a cool toy and I have a business case for it but I just didn't like the risk profile.

[Xray]

Sounds like a good chunk of change to plonk down for a future prototype, seems like they may become victims of overhype.

[tri4sale]

I canceled my order. They delayed my shipment an entire year! Having $5,000 on the line for a company that has a good chance of just floating down the sewer is to me a bad investment. I'd rather wait for it become an item on Amazon and pay 20% more than risk $5,000 while they get their act together. It seemed like a cool toy and I have a business case for it but I just didn't like the risk profile.

Too many of these crowdfunded hardware projects are failing and the buyers are left with nothing. I've read about a few scams on Kickstarter and Indigo (I think thats the name of the other crowdfunded site) where fraudsters are posting and soliciting funds, and then the product never materializes. Not saying all the failures are fraudsters, but some are. Some just can't produce what the promise, and fold like any other business.