Better cut time estimates

[maverickx50]

Were still working on getting better educated in the operation of our new Desktop with most of the whistles and bells including the spindle drive. It seems that the run time estimates that are generated off of Aspire 8 are off by more than a little. usually lower that actual. Any suggestions as to how (if possible) I can get a better cut time estimated? Were trying to generate product to sell and time is money. I hate to throw away a good design concept just because it's not going to be competitively profitable based on erroneous time estimates.

[Joe Porter]

There is a scale factor to adjust real cut times to estimated cut times.. you have to get the estimate, then cut the part and then adjust, and try it again until you get a feel for the estimated vs. the actual...joe

[scottp55]

Good idea to hit VD and turn your log files on. Then in whatever folder your cut file is in you'll have the actual cut time of the toolpaths and be able to change your scale factor for that type of cut. Cutouts and long profiles are around a 1, VCarve has a lot of variables so around 2.2 gives a rough estimate. and 3D I still don't have nailed down.
Usually loading a partfile into SB3 gives a more accurate time for something you've never cut.
scott

[maverickx50]

Yaaa I've seen that. But,,, Everything the program needs to calculate is already there. the feed speed, the ramp the plunge the cutter dia the overlap the cut depths the total linear inches. I just don't get why the #s can be off by a factor of over 2 in some cases. Even if I adjust would that adjustment be any good for the next design the next cutter(s) used etc? probably not.

[scottp55]

Vectric writes for almost any CNC in the world. They have no way to tell how fast each machine accel/decels or what your cornering speed, etc ad infinitum is.
It's an estimate that you'll get better at for the Desktop, and small intricates where it can never actually get up to the speed you put in to simple cutouts.
Too many Variables, and you never really know how long a project takes until you go start to finish anyways.
That's what prototyping a totally finished ready for sale item is for.
How many times have you taken a project on and say "oh, it's only a half hour job" to someone, and then 2 hours later, you still have an hour to go.
Our stuff is only half done when it comes off the machine.
Sorry if I sound short....computers today hate me, and hooking the second Desktop to a brand new control computer, SHOULD have taken me an hour and it took 5.
Grouchy:)
http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96&p=371&hilit=cut+time+estimates#p371

http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9880&p=69141&hilit=cut+time+estimates#p69141

[maverickx50]

Vectric writes for almost any CNC in the world. They have no way to tell how fast each machine accel/decels or what your cornering speed, etc ad infinitum is.
It's an estimate that you'll get better at for the Desktop, and small intricates where it can never actually get up to the speed you put in to simple cutouts.
Too many Variables, and you never really know how long a project takes until you go start to finish anyways.
That's what prototyping a totally finished ready for sale item is for.
How many times have you taken a project on and say "oh, it's only a half hour job" to someone, and then 2 hours later, you still have an hour to go.
Our stuff is only half done when it comes off the machine.
Sorry if I sound short....computers today hate me, and hooking the second Desktop to a brand new control computer, SHOULD have taken me an hour and it took 5.
Grouchy:)
http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96&p=371&hilit=cut+time+estimates#p371

http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9880&p=69141&hilit=cut+time+estimates#p69141

Well your from the NE. We expect grouchy LOL. Still ALL the info is in the program except spindle RPM. If one (the programmer) was so inclined good estimates for any machine could be generated.

[scottp55]

Hey! We Maineiacs Tain't half grumpy if we have something decent to complain about....Like people from "Away" :)
Now GRUMPY is me in 10 minutes when I have to get out of wheelchair to butt crawl into Makercrate and yank my control computer to make sure my fans are running after a "Fan Failure" boot prompt, got me shut down and hating it. At least I got the second Desktop running/warmed up/and Zeroed!
One thing it is Great at is to compare various toolpathing strategies:)
Happy carving Fredick.
scott

[tri4sale]

Hey! We Maineiacs Tain't half grumpy if we have something decent to complain about....Like people from "Away" :)
Now GRUMPY is me in 10 minutes when I have to get out of wheelchair to butt crawl into Makercrate and yank my control computer to make sure my fans are running after a "Fan Failure" boot prompt, got me shut down and hating it. At least I got the second Desktop running/warmed up/and Zeroed!
One thing it is Great at is to compare various toolpathing strategies:)
Happy carving Fredick.
scott

Ughh, had one of those fan errors on a HP once, and damn HP instead of using a standard fan, they used a proprietary connection, and you couldn't turn the alert off to ignore it in bios, had to get part from HP at like $30 for the fan instead of using a $2 fan off the shelf.

[scottp55]

Off topic(again),
Well that was virtually painless. Control has been Dirtbagged and untouched for 2 years(except to check connections and replace faulty HDMI cord) and I'd even forgotten it was a Dell Optiplex(Yep Brady, I'm going to heck:)
Didn't blow it off yet as I was going to take pics of dust after 2 yrs and thought others might be interested as it's under the Desktop.
Brady mentioned a filter medium from McMaster that was similar but cheaper I think?
Hope it's something simple Daniel.
Sorry Fredrick.
scott

[Gary Campbell]

Maverick...
When you say: "Everything the program needs to calculate is already there. the feed speed, the ramp the plunge the cutter dia the overlap the cut depths the total linear inches", what you mean to say is: Everything the program needs to calculate feeds and length of cut or rapid is there.

What is not there is: The rapid speeds of the machine, the acceleration of the machine, the ability of the machine to accelerate at the set acceleration to the prescribed speed. The experience of the operator at both toolpath and machine tuning settings play a major factor. The Z settings can reduce XY feeds by 50% or more and are controlled by the machine controller.

So as you can see the design software has information on length, it has information on max speeds, but it has not enough information to accurately calculate time. That's why there is a Scale factor. This scale factor will allow you to tune the Machining estimate to your machine, with your settings, to your type of files and your materials the way you toolpath them.

Hint: Set your rapid at 1 ips for a desktop. Set Scale around 3+ for 3D files
Have you viewed the "Toolpath Admin and Time Estimate Guide" tutorial video

[Joe Porter]

I just saw this on the Vectric forum http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24156 scroll to the bottom, this looks like a pretty good idea to help get the actual run time to adjust your scale factor....joe

[paul_z]

There is a lot of "magic" going on when the CNC controller is doing realtime control of the machine. It is controlling distance, velocity, acceleration and some even control "jerk" (the rate of change of acceleration). These not only change based on the type of machine but may also change between machines of the same type. Brady W. is a wizard of changing these parameters to optimize a machine for a specific task.

Could Vectric include more parameters to improve the time estimate? Of course it is possible; however, it would add a lot of complexity and I doubt that it would help more than just using the fudge factor.

Paul Z