New custom router bit day!

[Ajcoholic]

Two days ago I received a bit that I had Royce/Ayr Cutting tools make up for me They are a large tooling supplier here in Ontario, Canada. As some might remember, I do these carved top cutting boards (quite a few yearly) and have been trying to get my time down on the machining - and also a better machined surface as to cut down on sanding time.

I was using a box stock "bowl and tray bit", 1 1/4" diameter with a 1/4" radius bottom edge. Running about 240 inches per minute and 13,500 rpm, with a 31% step over. Cut pretty good, with a decently smooth surface.

The bit I had made is 2" in diameter, with two carbide inserts, also with the same radius. The inserts are set to up-shear cut. Also, with a 3/4" shank (the maximum size I can run in my 4HP HSD spindle). Its a fair bit larger over all, than the other one!

Today I finally got a chance to test it out. I did a test cut in a scrap of hard maple, then put one of my cutting board blanks on the machine a did a test cut at the same feed speed, 13,000 rpm and same step-over.

Cut the machine time from about 7 and a half minutes, to just under 5. I need to play with the cutting speed and step over to see if I can shave it down to 4 minutes (I was hoping to cut the machine time in half.

I would say the cut quality is better than the bowl bit, especially around the perimeter. I hit the cut section with a ROS and 120 grit for 30 seconds or so and removed all the visible machine marks, so they were very minimal, with no chips or tearing out.

I wish I had more time to spend trying to push the bit, but that will have to wait a bit longer. But if I can get to my target time, I can possibly save nearly an hour every time I do a run of a dozen of these.

The bits
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic047/FullSizeRender2_zpsopjwnnp4.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic047/FullSizeRender2_zpsopjwnnp4.jpg.html)

Off the CNC router
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic047/IMG_2108_zpsf1gj8yqp.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic047/IMG_2108_zpsf1gj8yqp.jpg.html)

After a bit of sanding
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic047/IMG_2109_zpsqurqunt3.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic047/IMG_2109_zpsqurqunt3.jpg.html)

Here is a video of the cut..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JKJq-Zmm4M&feature=em-upload_owner

[scottp55]

Neat design Andrew...Yours?
Thanks for the vid, I've found less toolmarks by using offset toolpath when I can also:)
Keep my brain busy trying to figure out the cut with VCP. (probably fluting toolpath with "trim vectors" might give it to me)
NICE.
scott

[cwshop]

How much is the bit and insert? And order numbers nd info? I like It!

[Ajcoholic]

Scott, I stoke the idea from a 1960's era board we repaired for a customer. Him and his wife were given it as a wedding gift. It was a eureka moment for my dad and I. A great idea and design. But hard to make and time consuming before CNC.

I think it was one of the first things I did upon receiving my buddy.

As for the bit, its custom as I said. No part #. I told them what I was wanting it for, what wood and my spindle hp. They suggested the size and design. It was about $355 plus I bought half a dozen inserts about $20 each. I'll be set for a while.

I get custom shaper cutters from Royce/Ayr often enough. I have several heads from them and many sets of knives. The only disadvantage is they're busy and often it takes several weeks to get a cutter made.

[scottp55]

Probably designed by a woman Andrew:)
The Acadian Master Carver in Limestone where the other Desktop was at for 2 years was a 4'th generation Carver, and we 3 Males were trying to come up with a design for cookie molds Ala Springerle type.....all of ours looked good, but not very efficient or easy to clean. THEN Tom remembered the stuff in the house kitchen he saved from his shop/house fire that his Grandmother carved, among them a "Cookie Board" :) Worked slick, and easy to clean...THEN he showed us her other kitchen tool carvings....ladles for pancake/ploye dough that balanced on a cast frypan, soup ladle/stirrers that rested flat on a counter or hung from the soup pot(drip free), etc. ALL easy to clean and a pleasure to use:)
Reminds me of the Shaker claims, that a woman invented the idea of a circular saw for the men, and a man invented the push broom to make life easier for the women:)
IF I can figure it out for VCP, I'll make one for my kitchen so tiny pieces of carrots,etc, don't wind up on the floor.
Nothing as cheap or nice to make a house warm and smell good on a raw day as a good soup or stew simmering(excepting Breads of course).
Thanks,
scott

[Ajcoholic]

Scott,
Its is just a simple 2D cut. If you look at the video, I have a jig made up that holds my 17" by 17" blanks. A piece of melamine with 4 rails that go along the edges. Except one rail is "L" shaped and has a 3/4" lip that tilts the board to cut on an angle.

I run my program with the bit Z zeroed on the high end of the blank. I cut down 3/4" (in three 1/4" deep passes) so you get a slope from the top edge of the board, down to the 3/4" maximum depth.

When I started, I did a 3D program in Aspire, and used a 5/8" ball end bit to carve the boards. Took about 25 minutes per unit, and enough sanding to make me realize it was not a good way to make up several dozens of these.

I had that green bowl/tray bit so I tried it, and it worked pretty good. Not using a 3D cut but tilted up like I do now. Cut my machine time to 7 and a half minutes. And much less sanding.

Im going to try and push this new bit a bit and see what I can do in terms of cutting speed, and a greater step over to make for fewer passes. As long as the quality of cut doesnt suffer it will cut more time off the carve.

I also make these boards in square - probably more than the round. But I like the round ones. More people like the square ones though.

It is excellent for veggies too. For the reason you said.. they dont roll off the board.

These boards are one of those things that are super easy and safe to do with the CNC router. But by hand, weve tried a jig for the hand held router, turning them in an off set jig on the lathe (scary and slow) and a few other things. But each time the hand work to clean them up was time consuming. Now, I can laminate up a blank and clean it up ready for machining, in approx 10 or 15 minutes if I figure in all my time from rough lumber (usually do batches of at least 6 to 12). Cut time in less than 5 minutes, and maybe 10 minutes of sanding. A coat of oil and wax and putting some press in rubber feet on the bottom. Probably have it down to 40 minutes per board.

There is about $40 retail in wood (I mark up my materials 65% so I actually have between 5 and 6 bf per unit at just over $4/bf for 8/4 hard maple wholesale) and $45 in shop time. I sell these to some repeat customers, like a realtor that gives one to his new clients, for $100. I retail them for about $125. If I ever get to the point I need to make more of these on a regular basis I will further stream line the process, lol.

[Ajcoholic]

I forgot to say.. I might be a weirdo, but I always get excited at a new piece of tooling, and in particular something that not only looks good but functions well.

I am a woodworker for sure, but I certainly appreciate clean, well done machine work.

[Brian Harnett]

I forgot to say.. I might be a weirdo, but I always get excited at a new piece of tooling, and in particular something that not only looks good but functions well.

I am a woodworker for sure, but I certainly appreciate clean, well done machine work.

Not at all a weirdo, a well made tool is a piece of art, I may steal that cutting board idea.

[Ajcoholic]

Not at all a weirdo, a well made tool is a piece of art, I may steal that cutting board idea.

Brian,
I tell you, once you carve up a roast or chicken, pork tenderloin etc on one of these you wont go back to another board with a little trough.

I remember many times, being over at a friends for dinner when their boards with the trough get full then meat juice is running everywhere...

The nice thing with this is you can make it any size, and just make up a simple program in minutes to carve it out.

[scottp55]

Funny, I looked at the jig, and skimmed right over the workpiece wasn't level:(
Thanks for explaining! MUCH easier:)
My new excuse for buying an Infinity Bowl/Tray bit Scott W. recommended, that I've been dithering about buying:)
Definitely "borrowing" worthy idea! Especially for a pull out cutting board next to sink I'm always dropping bits and pieces off of.
scott

[genek]

Scott what is a Infinity Bowl/Tray bit and where can I look at it.???? or order it.
Funny, I looked at the jig, and skimmed right over the workpiece wasn't level:(
Thanks for explaining! MUCH easier:)
My new excuse for buying an Infinity Bowl/Tray bit Scott W. recommended, that I've been dithering about buying:)
Definitely "borrowing" worthy idea! Especially for a pull out cutting board next to sink I'm always dropping bits and pieces off of.
scott

[scottp55]

Off topic;
Hey Eugene, this was recommended by Scott back when I was trying for smooth pocket bottoms making those Biz card holders you saw.
His other recommendation of Centurion FEM downcuts, worked so well, I've just kept it in my "Wish" list.
No personal experience though.
Don't forget to Ramp:)
http://www.infinitytools.com/bowl-tray-router-bits
scott

[Ajcoholic]

Almost every manufacturer of router bits make a similar bowl/tray bit. Ive had several from various manufacturers.

The green one I have is from Lee Valley. Went up in price since I last bought them.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=30171&cat=1,33084,46168,69435,46173&ap=1

[genek]

Andrew did you say you did Square ones also...??? What does that look like.

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew did you say you did Square ones also...??? What does that look like.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic008/IMG_1015_zpsmslpisuy.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic008/IMG_1015_zpsmslpisuy.jpg.html)

[genek]

Those look great do you mind if I make some to sale here in Ky.

[Ajcoholic]

Those look great do you mind if I make some to sale here in Ky.

By all means Eugene... I hope you sell a lot of them. I have dreams of making these by the thousands.. lol. I make several dozen a year but never really try and sell them. People come to me to get them after they see one at a friends' place.

It is something I have always wondered why someone like Boos doesnt manufacture.. I would think there would be a market for something like this on a grand scale, if you already have a network to manufacture and distribute.

[Mayo]

That's really nicely done!

In watching the video I was thinking that the tool path was making unnecessary moves?
It looked like there were a couple moves at the start of each pass that first went one way and then reversed the direction of cut and went the other way. Regardless it seems like you have reduced your sanding time pretty good from the looks of the finish.

[genek]

By all means Eugene... I hope you sell a lot of them. I have dreams of making these by the thousands.. lol. I make several dozen a year but never really try and sell them. People come to me to get them after they see one at a friends' place.

It is something I have always wondered why someone like Boos doesnt manufacture.. I would think there would be a market for something like this on a grand scale, if you already have a network to manufacture and distribute.

Andrew After you gave me permission to make them. I copied your pictures and sent them out to some of my wholesale accounts to see what they thought.. Did not expect any reply tonight.. but I did get one.. Here is what they said....(These new cutting boards are great! I love them.
Your website is awesome too!. I tried to leave a review for your Ulu knife and board, but it wouldn't let me because I didn't buy it from your website. I bought 3 of them when I worked at the Artisan center. I and my daughter's love them and that damn knife is still sharp as heck!! Hahaha. I use mine every time I chop anything)

You need to make them and offer them for wholesale to stores in your area... by the way the ulua knife and board sale like hot cakes for me... Can tell you where to get the knife blank..

[genek]

Andrew: I sale an average of $1500.00 worth of cutting boards each week. This week i have glued up `12 panels 16inches by 48 to cut large horse head cutting boards, 18 panels 13 x 48 for small horse heads and medium Ky cutting boards..out of the 12 panels i get 48 large horse head cutting boards @15.00 each the 18 panels I will get 90 cutting boards @ 12.50 each.the 48 nets me $720.00 the 90 nets me $1,125.00 so tomorrow I will cut all of these panels up total cost of wood $350.00 total product produced is $1,845.00 for 3 days work. My orders are right now picking up for Christmas, this will hold till around the 15th of Dec.. Then it slacks off till Jan. when everyone starts putting their spring orders in.

[Ajcoholic]

That's really nicely done!

In watching the video I was thinking that the tool path was making unnecessary moves?
It looked like there were a couple moves at the start of each pass that first went one way and then reversed the direction of cut and went the other way. Regardless it seems like you have reduced your sanding time pretty good from the looks of the finish.

Completely necessary... it's ramping down into the cut. The bit isn't capable of a straight plunge. I'm using 4" for the ramp. Prob excessively. Should cut that to 1.5" or 2"

[genek]

Andrew here is a order i got today... all the cutting boards that I made today are already sold... this is a new customer...it is not hard to sale cutting boards, I already have over 20 orders of your style to start after the first of the year..


I would like to buy 12 Bakers scoops, 12 sugar scoops, 12 coffee scoops, 3 pig cutting boards, 3 small horse head cutting boards, 3 large Kentucky cutting boards, 3 medium Kentucky cutting boards, and 6 small Kentucky cutting boards.

I talked to Tina and she said you don't have all this. I completely understand I have waited too long to order, but I'll take what you can give me!
If you will let me know, I'll come pick it up.
Thanks!!


--
Francie
Owner
Ravenna

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew here is a order i got today... all the cutting boards that I made today are already sold... this is a new customer...it is not hard to sale cutting boards, I already have over 20 orders of your style to start after the first of the year..


I would like to buy 12 Bakers scoops, 12 sugar scoops, 12 coffee scoops, 3 pig cutting boards, 3 small horse head cutting boards, 3 large Kentucky cutting boards, 3 medium Kentucky cutting boards, and 6 small Kentucky cutting boards.

I talked to Tina and she said you don't have all this. I completely understand I have waited too long to order, but I'll take what you can give me!
If you will let me know, I'll come pick it up.
Thanks!!


--
Francie
Owner
Ravenna

Thats awesome, Eugene. If I wasnt always booked months behind with my cabinets and furniture, I`d probably try and go more aggresively after other things. But, there is only so many hours in a day, and I am already short on those hours! lol.

[genek]

That my problem right now.. I am getting more orders in than I can fill in a reasonable amount of time. I am gluing up everything I can each day. My glue rack only holds 5 levels and I fill those up fast. I went through 300 bf of maple and walnut this week already.. and everything I have cut is all ready sold plus more orders came in today besides that one.

[genek]

Thats awesome, Eugene. If I wasnt always booked months behind with my cabinets and furniture, I`d probably try and go more aggresively after other things. But, there is only so many hours in a day, and I am already short on those hours! lol.

when it gets slow make up some and have them on hand to sale.

[Ajcoholic]

when it gets slow make up some and have them on hand to sale.

The last time it was `slow` in the shop was in the late 1990`s... lol

[genek]

Andrew I am having to work late tonight.. I have to have the following ready for Tina and this years Apprentice to start sanding tomorrow... 16 large horse head cutting boards, 40 small Horse head, 32 large Ky cutting boards, 36 medium Ky cutting boards, 15 Ky cheese boards 10 Indiana cutting boards and 5 Pig cutting boards.This has gone on all summer long... It has been so busy I can not take the time off to Move the Equipment into the new shop....just over $2,000.00 worth of product out the door when finished. I glued the panels up Sunday and planned and will have cut the boards out today when I am finished.

[Mark Owen]

Andrew, what finish are you using on the cutting boards? Is it mineral oil and beeswax?

Eugene, for the wholesale prices you are charging, am I correct in saying you sell your boards with no finish on them?

I am not trying to start a debate as to what is the best finish to use. I am looking at it from the point of efficiency.

Regards

Mark

[genek]

I drop all my cutting boards and Kitchen items in mineral oil. I do not use any beeswax or nut oils, some people are allergic to them Mineral oil for food contact is the safest to use and the cheapest. I buy mineral in in the five gallon buckets..What i use to dip the boards in is a large mop sink with a valve on it. I pour five gallon of oil into the mop sink drop the product in it let it set for a while then open the drain and let it drain over night.
Andrew, what finish are you using on the cutting boards? Is it mineral oil and beeswax?

Eugene, for the wholesale prices you are charging, am I correct in saying you sell your boards with no finish on them?

I am not trying to start a debate as to what is the best finish to use. I am looking at it from the point of efficiency.

Regards

Mark

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew, what finish are you using on the cutting boards? Is it mineral oil and beeswax?

Eugene, for the wholesale prices you are charging, am I correct in saying you sell your boards with no finish on them?

I am not trying to start a debate as to what is the best finish to use. I am looking at it from the point of efficiency.

Regards

Mark

Mark,
I am using two products from Boos - first is their mineral based block oil. Then I use their mineral oil/Beeswax paste. This is the recommended finish from them (first the straight oil, then the oil/wax).

It seems to work really well, and I usually sell the boards with a tube of the oil and wax mix. With daily use (like mine gets used) and washing in the sink, I recommend applying the oil/wax every 3 or 4 months.

I get the product through Richelieu Hardware here in Canada..


http://www.richelieu.com/ca/en/category/kitchen-and-bathroom/kitchen/countertops-and-accessories/accessories/protective-cream-for-wood-countertops/1034782/sku-001212

http://www.richelieu.com/ca/en/category/kitchen-and-bathroom/kitchen/countertops-and-accessories/accessories/protective-oil/1034783/sku-001512

[Mark Owen]

Mineral oil it is.
Andrew, thank you for the links. I will likely buy the wax and offer it as an add on.

Thank you both. I appreciate your contribution to this forum!

Regards

Mark

[genek]

That is what the forum is for ,,, for us to help each other and to share ideas and thoughts.

Mineral oil it is.
Andrew, thank you for the links. I will likely buy the wax and offer it as an add on.

Thank you both. I appreciate your contribution to this forum!

Regards

Mark

[VanIslanddan]

I had a nice piece of Walnut left over from my bathroom renovation. Andrew's post inspired me to make something for our kitchen. I plan on doing some more from some live edge maple so I picked up some bees wax an mineral oil to make my own finish.29234