Show Your Dust Shoe!

[rb99]

I think it would be a great for Shopbotters to see all the dust shoes and how they are plumbed all this thread. So if you would, please post some pics of your dust shoe. Comments about it's design, material and functionality would really help out as well. Thanks!

[Gary Campbell]

I've done a few:

https://youtu.be/LZ1AR3fyfxM

https://youtu.be/r11oDsTXl04

https://youtu.be/eNOwXWgFgb4

[knight_toolworks]

I redesigned this one after my z upgrade lighter and I can raise and lower it. thats boon to getting good duct collection with a short brush.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30307&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30308&stc=1http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30309&stc=1

[rb99]

Here is one from YouTube that has some interesting features. I would rather use clear plastic, not plywood though.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aRcM-9c0Q

[gundog]

That is an interesting concept with the billow type material used for adjustment great idea.

[MogulTx]

Thanks for the posts guys. I find myself designing a new dust foot for my machine. I lose way too much of the airflow, and therefore it is not an aggressive chip pick up system (IMO)- so I want to try to limit the inflow area and increase the velocity so that it will pick up more chips... time will tell, I guess!

Monty

[rb99]

Is it important to have a large diameter vacuum hose? Are there problems using Shopvac hose? I have little room for the hose...

[knight_toolworks]

Thanks for the posts guys. I find myself designing a new dust foot for my machine. I lose way too much of the airflow, and therefore it is not an aggressive chip pick up system (IMO)- so I want to try to limit the inflow area and increase the velocity so that it will pick up more chips... time will tell, I guess!

Monty
I have 3" then to 4" and then to 6" pipe I used to have 6" hose to the 3" but the weight of the hose caused problem. I have really good airflow and I can shave my table with the 2.5" bit and no dust flies.

[rb99]

What about chunks jamming up the hose at the foot?

[knight_toolworks]

that happens if I am pocketing with the grain. but those are so long I don't think 4" will make much difference. it usually jams at the entrance and they are longer then 4" in in all practically getting 4" in the prt is just too much unless you go out the back and there are just too man things in the way.

[gundog]

My next dust foot will have a 5" hose all the way to the foot. I have designed it and bought the stuff to build it but I would really like to automate it like the one in Gary Campbell's first link. I bought magnets to make a Kent style shoe but I am not sold on the design because I use a lot of long bits and I have a tool changer so moving a portion of the shoe when making a tool change I think is really the way to go.
Mike

[rb99]

My next dust foot will have a 5" hose all the way to the foot. I have designed it and bought the stuff to build it but I would really like to automate it like the one in Gary Campbell's first link. I bought magnets to make a Kent style shoe but I am not sold on the design because I use a lot of long bits and I have a tool changer so moving a portion of the shoe when making a tool change I think is really the way to go.
Mike






Why do you want the 5" to the foot?

[knight_toolworks]

My next dust foot will have a 5" hose all the way to the foot. I have designed it and bought the stuff to build it but I would really like to automate it like the one in Gary Campbell's first link. I bought magnets to make a Kent style shoe but I am not sold on the design because I use a lot of long bits and I have a tool changer so moving a portion of the shoe when making a tool change I think is really the way to go.
Mike
you might have too much air then you end up sucking up the brush. being able to adjust the brush heigh is the best solution I found for long bits.

[gundog]

you might have too much air then you end up sucking up the brush. being able to adjust the brush heigh is the best solution I found for long bits.

The whole point of using an automated dust shoe is to not have a long brush to be sucked underneath this is why I have not built the Kent style with longer brush if you watch the video that Gary posted (the first link) this allows the rear portion to be lower my machine has a tool changer so the only way to get the brush low enough is to use a real long brush (non automated) so that portion does not hit the rack on the tool changer. I have done some CFM testing on my duct work I have to keep a second 4" blast gate open to increase my air flow on the 4" hose going to the router now. I believe I will get better air flow with the 5" hose. I machine plastic not wood on a regular basis and my current system does a poor job of collecting the chips.

When I had my Shop Bot I had an adjustable dust shoe that Gary Campbell had made and it would get almost all of the plastic chips so I know it is possible but the SB did not have a tool changer so adjusting to each length of bit was done at the manual tool change.

[Greybarn]

Here is a picture of Kent Dust Shoe on my PRT. I was cutting 1/2" thick G-10, 12,000 RPM at 30 IPM using a SGS FGR-6 bit. I can't say enough good things about the Kent Dust Shoe. And the FGR-6 bit was really good.30355

[steve_g]

Thoughts on using a 5” hose to the dust foot…

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.cfm#Airspeed

A certain velocity of air is required to pick up and transport sawdust…

4000 FPM has become an industry standard that is well tested and proven solidly to work to move dust.
3” hose area = 28.27
5” hose area = 78.25 nearly 3X the area of 3” !
Or: 777 CFM for the 3” hose
2166 CFM for the 5” hose

A good 3hp Oneida cyclone draws 1500 cfm…
We haven’t even talked about duct friction loss or SP (static Pressure) needs… or that not only are we collecting sawdust but it has a velocity coming off the bit that must be overcome…
Unless you have an impressive industrial dust collection system, I think you’re asking for trouble with your 5” hose…

SG

[Greybarn]

That's a 4" inch hose on my dust foot. Previously I had a 3" inch. I think the 4" inch does a better job.

[gundog]

Thoughts on using a 5” hose to the dust foot…

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.cfm#Airspeed

A certain velocity of air is required to pick up and transport sawdust…

4000 FPM has become an industry standard that is well tested and proven solidly to work to move dust.
3” hose area = 28.27
5” hose area = 78.25 nearly 3X the area of 3” !
Or: 777 CFM for the 3” hose
2166 CFM for the 5” hose

A good 3hp Oneida cyclone draws 1500 cfm…
We haven’t even talked about duct friction loss or SP (static Pressure) needs… or that not only are we collecting sawdust but it has a velocity coming off the bit that must be overcome…
Unless you have an impressive industrial dust collection system, I think you’re asking for trouble with your 5” hose…

SG

So here is what I know because we measured it at the machine for my system with just my duct open for my dust shoe we had less suction then when I opened an additional 4" duct on the same line it actually picked up velocity. My neighbor did refrigeration and had the meter that is how I know.

[rb99]

When the foot is attached to the router won't any vibration of the foot cause small but visible movement of the router? For example a piece of cutting flies up and hits the foot or a cutoff piece lifts up and temporarily jams the foot...

[steve_g]

“when I opened an additional 4" duct on the same line it actually picked up velocity.”

Yes, I’ve experienced that phenomenon before… I’m told it has to do with the efficiency of a particular fan design. A fan works it’s best in a very narrow CFM range and if “starved” for air, becomes inefficient… At any rate, testing with an anemometer is the best test!
SG

[Guillemot]

Here is a video of my dust boot for deep relief carving: https://youtu.be/ebmxEq48RYU
And a little writeup with cut files: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/blog/admin/deep_relief_dust_boot_cnc_machining

https://youtu.be/ebmxEq48RYU

[rb99]

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.cfm#Airspeed


After reading about the health risks of the super fine airborne dust particulates I am actually questioning whether I should continue to use my CNC equipment. I am not sure about spending $3K-$4K-$5K on dust equipment, and if that would even be safe...

[knight_toolworks]

the cnc does not really throw a lot of dust in the air. though taking parts off the table can cause flying dust. in woodworking in general there is dust. using the rich dc and working hard to can minimize it.

[rb99]

the cnc does not really throw a lot of dust in the air. though taking parts off the table can cause flying dust. in woodworking in general there is dust. using the rich dc and working hard to can minimize it.




Did you read the article about the fine airborne particles being like glass shards and just walking in the shop will stir up enough invisible dust to make the air unsafe... What's the rich dc?

From the article:

"By definition fine dust also known as inhalable dust by the medical world consists of fine dust particles sized under 10-microns. Because our eyes cannot see particles smaller than 10-microns without magnification, these particles are invisible. Even huge buildups of fine dust particles remain invisible. These fine dust particles are so fine and light they don't settle quickly in normal room air currents which is why they behave like an odor and rapidly fill all shared air. They are so fine and light they also almost never break the surface tension enough to harm our finishes. Unfortunately, these fine invisible dust particles go right past our bodies' normal protections and cause the most harm to our health. The different sized invisible fine dust particles cause problems in different areas of our respiratory systems as shown in the above particle distribution graphic. Most advertised fine filters for our shop vacuums, air cleaners, dust collectors, and cyclones along with too many dust mask filters freely pass fine dust particles right through so these things do a poor job helping to protect our health"

[Kevin Gunn]

I think you're right to be concerned about fine particles. Here's my setup which is both effective and economical:

ShopFox dust collector (bought with my 'bot from ShopBot)
Cyclone collector (Oneida Air Systems 4in Super Dust Deputy Deluxe) inserted before the ShopFox (captures 99% of chips and dust so I never need to worry about filling up the ShopFox bag)
35A274NANO Cartridge Kit from Wynn Environmental (MERV 15) -- filters 99.999% of fines down to 0.5 microns. This replaces the ShopFox cloth filter. You'll WANT that cyclone collector so you don't gum it up as they aren't cheap.

The ShopFox was $680 last year with my 'bot. The cyclone collector was $210. The MERV 15 filter was $190. Grand total: $1080 plus tax.

It's a fantastic combo -- couldn't be happier with it. The bin for the cyclone collector is just small enough that a stretchy kitchen garbage bag will work in it -- just close it up when it gets full so you don't even have to disturb the dust that's in it. Also, the MERV-15 filter has a huge area since it's pleated, so air passes through it very easily -- much better than the old ShopFox cloth filter -- so my airflow from the work surface is also much improved.

[curtiss]

Before the bot, I had installed an attic fan in the garage to pull air through the house... years later it happened to be right above the bot.

It certainly moves anything loose in the air and places it in the attic, but as the attic fan runs off and on all summer to vent the attic... I do not think much dust stays up there.

I have just a typical dust collection system.

[Bobtail Farms]

Splendid, thanks. And thanks for posting the files. Please consider posting on the vectric site as well for those of us (like yours truly) who do not have a shopbot and are shy (unlike yours truly) about reading another site.

I've made several along the lines of the typical shoe with magnetic held brush plates (up to 6" long brush) and have been musing over how to solve exactly what you did.

regards,
Brian.