Should I be warming up my spindle?

[BowenJ]

As with most of us here, I’m a self taught shopbot user. I’ve been at it for about 9 months now. Today I just noticed that the shopbot software comes with a “Spindle Warmup Routine” in the custom cuts menu. I have never used this before, I’ve always just loaded my part files and started cutting. But should I be warming up the spindle first? What are the benefits of doing so? The costs of not doing so? Who out there warms up their spindle and who doesn’t?

[Brady Watson]

Do you get in your car, start it in 10 degree weather and FLOOR IT for a minute or two? Why not? (Because you'd seriously hurt the engine...)

Yes, you should be warming up your spindle. Start it at the lowest speed possible and let it run until the case isn't ice cold. Just let it run and go do something else for 10-15 min. The bearings are loose and sloppy when cold, just like an engine. When they heat up and expand, they can now hold tolerance. When they are run without warm up, the oil in the spindle is like candle wax - and it's completely possible to skid and gall the bearings...which ain't pretty.

Non ATC HSD spindle are thrown away when the bearings give out since it costs more to replace the bearings than a new spindle. Colombo spindles can be rebuilt, but even doing it yourself (ill advised) will cost you $800+ for the correct bearings and special grease, not to mention specialized tools and know how like dealing with the squirrely labyrinth seals...

So yeah...treat your spindle with care.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

actually newer cars don't benefit from warming up and it will wear the engine out faster. so bad analogy.

[Brady Watson]

Dude...not sure where you're getting that half-baked info from, but I've been building engines for a long time. You change your oil often and you ALWAYS warm it up before you start beating on it. That's how you spin a bearing or throw a rod through the side of the block. It goes double for turbo or supercharged engines.

Warm up your spindle. It'll last longer. Or not & throw it away if money and common sense are no objects.

-B

[bleeth]

Sometimes us old dogs do need to learn new info.
Out of curiosity I did a google search: warming up a new car. Recommended that it be warmed up under motion(that doesn't mean at top RPM's obviously)
Where I live I don't need to bother much about my vehicle as the lubes are rarely very cold.
BUT your electric spindle should always be warmed up before cutting, as well as older cars and trucks and other typical engines around your place.

[bobmoore]

Most spindles are built with ceramic bearings to perform better at 20,000 + RPM's. Not warming them up before putting a heavy load on them is asking for trouble.

[steve_g]

Possibly there is some confusion over warming up vs breaking in… When we bought our last new car, we were told there was no need to “break it in” as new engines are made so precisely that they are ready to go…

And just in case a “newbie” is reading this and isn’t 100% clear on terminology… a PC router isn’t a spindle and doesn’t require warming up. Nothing precise in it!
SG

[dlcw]

I know the year I got my PRSAlpha in 2009, it came with a spindle warm up routine and the manual highly recommended warming the spindle up with this routine prior to use. It starts the spindle at 5K RPM and runs it for 90 seconds, then increases the speed a little and runs for another 90 seconds. This continues, with incremental speed increases, for about 9 minutes till the spindle is running at 18K for 90 seconds. I think my total warm up routine is about 10 minutes. I just start it from the Cut menu option and walk away, so I've never actually timed how long it takes, nor have I looked at the log to see how long it takes. On CNC cutting days, the first thing I do when I turn the power on, in the morning, is to run the warm up routine.

My spindle starts out fairly noisy at first but gets quieter with each increase in RPM till it's virtually quiet at 18K rpm.

In regards to warming up cars, I've read the same things in manufacturers manuals as well as car articles. For me, I use what's best for my particular vehicle. My 2014 Chevy Cruise, I get in, start it and go. The manual says that, and I've experienced warm and cold weather operations and it performs well using this method. My Chevy Silverado with Duramax deisel engine, I start it up and let it warm up for about 5-10 minutes (depending on how cold it is) before I drive away. My 2012 Chevy Silverado truck (gas engine) warms up for about 5 minutes or it runs really rough. My beater POS 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix is a hop in start it and go. If it dies, oh well....

I built many muscle cars (Z28 Camaro's, 327 and 350 small blocks) in my earlier years (when it was easy to crawl around under the car and pre-arthritis) and I adhered strictly to a warm up routines and maintenance routines. But those were very precision engines delivering hundreds and hundreds of horsepower. Big difference from today's vehicles.

[Brady Watson]

Here's the *official* word from both spindle manufacturers:


Colombo Manual Page 5.02 (http://www.maxymtechnologies.com/Maxym%20Support/Spindles%20Motors%20and%20Inverters/Colombo%20RV90%205HP%20Collet%20Spindle.pdf)

Warm Up procedure

The procedure described in the table refers to the
unit daily operation and start-up any time the
spindle cools down up to room temperature (68F).
The described pre-heating cycle is to be carried
out the tool holder fitted when not machining is
started yet.

No compliance with the above-mentioned
prescriptions cancels the guarantee. (No warm up = no warranty)

Spindle Warm up table

Rotation speed-----------Single Cycle time(min)
50% max speed-------------------5
75% max speed-------------------3
100% max speed------------------3


WarmUp operation after stock period (*) :
* - See page 3.01

Rotation speed-----------Single Cycle time(min)
20% max speed--------------------25
50% max speed--------------------10
75% max speed--------------------10
100% max speed-------------------15

________________________________________

HSD Manual Page 88 (http://www.cancam.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/HSD-9KW-5801H0056-ENG-Rev04-ES-9XX-88X-SERIES.pdf)

6.3 PREHEATING
HSD S.p.A. uses high-precision angular contact bearing pairs, pre-loaded and lubricated for life
with special grease for high speeds.
When the machine is switched on for the first time every day, allow the electrospindle to perform a
brief preheating cycle in order to allow the bearings to gradually attain a uniform operating
temperature, and hence to obtain a uniform expansion of the bearing races and the correct preload
and rigidity.

The following cycle is recommended, without machining operations:
50 % of the maximum rated speed for 2 minutes.
75 % of the maximum rated speed for 2 minutes.
100 % of the maximum rated speed for 1 minute.

The preheating cycle should also be performed every time that the machine is inoperative long
enough for the electrospindle to cool down to room temperature. (68F)

I start my spindles as low as they can go and just let them sit. The 5hp and 3hp Colombos run at 1000 RPM in a cold shop for a few minutes and I graduate from there. The HSD on the DT runs at about 2500 (less and it stalls/doesn't like it) and also gets graduated in RPM over time.

Note that the SB speed control will not permit RPM lower than 5,000. If you like rolling manual like I do, you can spin it down as low as a few hundred RPM on the larger spindles.

When I replaced the bearings on my Colombo years ago, my friend who has been in the industrial electric motor repair business for his whole life (and his father before him) told me to spin it as low as I can for warm up. It'll eventually warm up. The replaced bearings have lasted longer than the originals since I adhere to a strict warm up routine.

It would be $80k to replace my Duramax truck...and half that to replace my diesel tractor. I'm going to continue to warm up the 10+ quarts of oil in each before I put them to work, despite what Popular Mechanics or the parrots on Facebook advise. :rolleyes:

-B

[ron_moorehead]

One of the first things I did on my VFD spindle was set the ramp up time from like 1 second to 5 seconds. I did not feel that the spindle needed to be up to full speed so quickly and the router pause for 20 seconds before it starts moving anyway.

[knight_toolworks]

Dude...not sure where you're getting that half-baked info from, but I've been building engines for a long time. You change your oil often and you ALWAYS warm it up before you start beating on it. That's how you spin a bearing or throw a rod through the side of the block. It goes double for turbo or supercharged engines.

Warm up your spindle. It'll last longer. Or not & throw it away if money and common sense are no objects.

-B
engines with carburetors yes. but new engines add more fuel to compensate for the cold and that causes the oil to ge used up faster so lubrication is worse so if your idling the engine your running it with less lube. I wish spindle bearings lasted as long as car bearings.

[dlcw]

Here's the *official* word from both spindle manufacturers:

I start my spindles as low as they can go and just let them sit. The 5hp and 3hp Colombos run at 1000 RPM in a cold shop for a few minutes and I graduate from there. The HSD on the DT runs at about 2500 (less and it stalls/doesn't like it) and also gets graduated in RPM over time.

Note that the SB speed control will not permit RPM lower than 5,000. If you like rolling manual like I do, you can spin it down as low as a few hundred RPM on the larger spindles.

-B

Ok Brady, how do you get the spindle to run at less then 5K RPM? Is it a G-code file you wrote to do this? I'd love to start mine out in the morning at less then 5K RPM. Thanks!!

[Gary Campbell]

Don...
Since you are out of warrantee, I'll tell you that in order to have the spindle run at lower rpm you will have to change the ShopBot factory programming. They are programmed this way so that inexperienced users don't try to run them slow, below an appropriate torque level for cutting. For warming up, no issues.

Notice I told you what to do, not how to do it. How is in the VFD manual.

BTW: I agree with both the factory recommendations and Brady's. The factory method is just fine assuming a somewhat normal room temperature environment. If you shop gets cooler than 60* at night, I would go with Brady's numbers, for sure. And remember, while you are reading the HSD manual, note that they are not intended to run under 45*F

[dlcw]

Thanks Gary!

I will brush the dust off my manual and read up on it. I thought maybe it could be done with some G-Coding work. But since the SB Control software gets in the way, I guess the VFD is the only way to do it.

[knight_toolworks]

Thanks Gary!

I will brush the dust off my manual and read up on it. I thought maybe it could be done with some G-Coding work. But since the SB Control software gets in the way, I guess the VFD is the only way to do it.

if you have the speed control installed it is easy to set up. I can send you the toolpath to run.

[nat_wheatley]

My original spindle is sitting on a shelf as proof that the warm up makes a difference. It lasted about 2 years with no warm up routine, while it's replacement (always warmed up) is going on 8 years under heavier use than the original. 10mins at 5K RPM.

[knight_toolworks]

My original spindle is sitting on a shelf as proof that the warm up makes a difference. It lasted about 2 years with no warm up routine, while it's replacement (always warmed up) is going on 8 years under heavier use than the original. 10mins at 5K RPM.

ya that sucks. I just replaced mine after about ten years.

[dlcw]

if you have the speed control installed it is easy to set up. I can send you the toolpath to run.

That'd be great Steve. Thank you!!

I'm over 8 years on my original spindle. I religiously warm it up before every use. I guess longevity is the proof that warm ups work, just like for our bodies before we start working hard lifting plywood (yeah right... LOL).

Who does 20 minutes of warm ups before a day of cutting plywood or other heavy material? Hahaha :D

[BowenJ]

Wow, I had no idea! <insert some adage about not knowing what you do not know>
Thanks everyone! I’m now converted to the ways of spindle warning. ;)

[knight_toolworks]

here is the file well the text but it is easy to make the file.

'Spindle warmup
TR,5000,1

SO,1,1 'Spindle on
PAUSE 210
TR,13500
PAUSE 210
TR,18000
PAUSE 210
SO,1,0 'Spindle Off

MSGBOX(Spindle is now warmed up and ready to use,64,Spindle Ready)

END

[dlcw]

Thanks Steve.

Here's the spindle warm up routine I use.

' ************************************************** ************************************
' DT_Spindle_Warmup.sbp
'
TR,5000
SO,7,1
Pause .5
SO,7,0

SO,1,1

Pause 60

TR,9500
Pause 60

TR,12000
Pause 60

TR,15000
Pause 60

TR,18000
Pause 60

TR, 11000

SO,1,0


The pause numbers are the ones Frank gave me to use. Seems to be working well. No spindle problems in almost 9 years, KNOCK ON WOOD!!! I hope I didn't just jinx myself... ;)

[ADAPT_Shop-Brady]

Did I miss it? I just run a C5 (built in spindle warmup routine in ShopBot 3 software) before I start running cut files.