Upgrade

[ccwerks]

I'm working with a PRT Standard V4.17 control board.
Vexta motors
It seems to be running fine other than the limitations of the bot itself.
If I were going to upgrade it for better performance what would be some suggestions that the group might have.
Thanks

Mark

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Mark. While I have an old PRT Alpha, I will be interested in following your thread. If you make the upgrade, maybe you can make a video showing what you did, and what improvements it made. Good luck, Chuck

[Brady Watson]

It depends on what your expectations are for that machine.

Without knowing what you need or want in terms of performance (cutting throughput - speed/torque/resolution), it is difficult to make any kind of recommendation.

What's your budget for upgrading your machine?

-B

[ccwerks]

Brady
What I'm looking for is stable. As in losing steps that sort of thing. Better performance overall.
Im told I cant fire the spindle up from the software because of my older version of control board.
Mark

[Brady Watson]

What's your budget to upgrade your machine?

[tlempicke]

Take a look at this http://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html

(http://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html)

[tlempicke]

I am planning on replacing all of the wiring, motors and controls on my Buddy this Winter. I was ready to order a custom made system and then could not make satisfactory business arrangements so I have decided to do the job myself.

These control boards look to be pretty successful. They have a forum similar to this one but not nearly as active. They offer two big things from my perspective. They do not rely on a USB connection but rather an Ethernet cable, which is a protocol that really is designed to do the job. Also you can get a touch screen setup, which should be a big step up in a dusty shop.

Look at a couple of their videos, they have some good hand holding available. Also you can buy a kit with one of their Acorn boards and experiment with it on a table top for less than five hundred bucks. You don't have to take your machine down until you are satisfied that you will be able to do the job.

BTW spindle control is built in to the board.

[Brady Watson]

I was ready to order a custom made system and then could not make satisfactory business arrangements so I have decided to do the job myself.

If you contract to have a custom control box and system made for your specific application, it is customary to either put down a 50% deposit or pay 100% up front. No different than buying a ShopBot or anything else in this world that is custom. So by saying that you 'couldn't make satisfactory business arrangements' with an outstanding member of the CNC community, who would lose major face if they shorted you, is really lame.

Yes - Centroid is good stuff. I have 3 of them so far. However, if you decide to sell your ShopBot one day, be sure to hold on to your original control box because once you convert to another control system, it won't be worth as much as with the old system when you go to sell it. It would be like trying to explain why you have a Ford engine in a Camaro to a buyer. I think it is in bad taste to have an Acorn spec'd out for you (when you had no clue what it even was at the time) and then to come here shouting how it's the best thing since sliced bread as if you knew from experience.

There are a number of paths to upgrade a PRT Standard and retain the ShopBot front end (SB3) that you are familiar with or to change to a GCode system such as Centroid. You have to decide what you want and what you are willing to give up. To some, retaining the ability to run SBP code is important, to others it isn't a big deal to learn GCode.

The question that few are prepared to answer is, What is your budget for upgrading your CNC?

Some believe it should cost $50 - when the reality of the situation is you could spend $1500 alone for quality motor gearboxes without motors, drives etc just to replicate the ShopBot gearboxes on those Vextas. It's a little cheaper but not a whole lot to do belt reduction. So no matter what path you choose, you can't get around the cost of gear/belt reduction when you replace motors. Just tallying up numbers in my head, it would cost about $3k for ME, just in parts, to build a replacement system for myself that was similar to an Alpha in performance. I get OEM pricing, so plan on it costing more for Joe Sixpack.

Just so we're clear, I am not selling control systems at the moment, unless they are original ShopBot controls that I get in on trade and test etc.

Another option would be to sell your PRT and just buy another machine that has the features and performance you want. The newest PRT is about 12 years old now...that's ancient.

-B

[robtown]

Brady
What I'm looking for is stable. As in losing steps that sort of thing. Better performance overall.
Im told I cant fire the spindle up from the software because of my older version of control board.
Mark
I'm not sure if they're still available, but the resurrection (sp) system looks interesting.

One of the regulars here makes them I believe.

Of course by the time you get one of those, update to hardened rails, and put an upgraded Z on an older PRT your looking at almost enough to purchase a much newer model second hand.

[tlempicke]

Dear Mr watson

I owned and operated an FAA certified repair station for avionics for many years. We were certified for everything up to Radar. In addition for nearly forty years I have held a certificate as an FAA designated Airworthiness Inspector. So if I wanted to recommend something electronic I think I have the chops to do so. I was ready to order a setup from your friend but we could not come to terms as far as payment and time for delivery. I felt that paying 100% up front with no specified time for delivery was not something I was willing to do.
I bow to your knowledge and experience and to that of your friend. Both of you are pretty big fish, but this is a really tiny pond.

[bleeth]

As many of the oldtimers here know I started with a PRT 4896 standard w/5HP Spindle bought new shortly before the first Alpha's were introduced. Over the years I owned it I was constantly upgrading it. Started with some hardened rails on the y and echain replacing the bow, Changing the operating system to a Gecko style (Prototype to what became the 4G) then redoing the x rails and entire Y gantry with a modern PRS style gantry and z car, and finally replacing the control box (once again) and motors with Alpha's. As all of this happened over years it was a regular source of amusement (Thoroughly enjoyed the challenges of doing it myself). But, if I had an old standard at this point that had not been seriously upgraded there is no way that I would endeavor to do all, or even any of that to get a modern unit. Between time and cash outlay the efficiency and economics distinctly point to selling it and buying a more up to date mill.

The problem with increasing motor performance on an older PRT is you still have the limits imposed by the design of the frame and gantry. As an example, when I upgraded from the original control unit to the gecko drive unit I was able to increase my jog speed quite a bit but could only increase cutting speed around 1/2ips or so due to the gantry design and construction not being robust enough to handle anything higher. Same control box and motors and the new gantry and x rails increased cutting to 4ips. (BTW: I rarely went for the absolutely fastest cutting, but rather fast as possible cutting while maintaining high edge quality and accurate part sizing). No load speeds (jogging) did go up hugely.
Note that if you spindle is the Columbo with Delta VFD some of their older ones will not play nice with speed control regardless of your SB control panel. You don't have to ask me how I know!!

[pro70z28]

I'm about to upgrade my older PRT. I've been accumulating parts as I decide what to do and what to leave alone. I have an e-chain, bought a string of LED lights for the gantry to light up the work area a little more, picked up a 4th axis. I plan to upgrade the VAC system to include a dust separator and a decent dust boot. Over the years I've already made upgrades. It has a 3hp Perske spindle with a, new a couple months ago, FVD. Out of necessity I've upgraded to the latest control board, after the original finally gave up, and the computer is just a few months old. I don't do production work with it so speed really isn't a concern. The rails are original and do show some wear. I may change them at some point, but for what I do, I don't notice it in the finished work. I used to make a lot of aluminum and steel parts. I suppose if I were still doing that I would see issues from the wear. I plan to "semi" retire this winter, so I'm not looking for the latest and greatest, I just want to keep the machine running long enough to outlast me. :confused:

[Gary Campbell]

Rob...
I do not make REZurrection control system upgrades that run on the ShopBot controller any longer. I make replacement systems that run on other controllers. The difficulties of acquiring SB OEM parts, the cost of those parts and the instability and inconsistencies of the SB controller drove the costs of producing and supporting the product far beyond acceptable boundaries. Other controllers, such as the Acorn that I recommended to TomL are much more robust, have features tenfold over SB3 and are stable. So they just work every day.

to tlempicke...
I would take exception to the "could not make satisfactory business arrangements so I have decided to do the job myself." comment made earlier in this thread. I have been a participating member of this forum for almost 12 years. Had I engaged in unscrupulous business tactics on this, or the other handful of forums I participate similarly on it would be more than evident. I will stand by my practice of requiring a 100% deposit on one off, custom control systems that are spec'ed out by the customer. It is the industry standard. My sales are promoted only by recommendations from past users. Having derogatory comments about my business practices will always get a reaction from me as I have worked hard to be fair in both price and practice.


I find it interesting that you feel the need to list decades of experience and mention the word "chops" when defending your qualifications to post a link to another controller on ShopBot's forum. I am surely not here to question your abilities, nor to give other forum users an opinion. But, when I read back thru your emails and find one from July 3, just 25 days ago, that said:

"I am using Shopbot 3.8 as the drive program. I see it being used in your videos but it looks like Mach 3 would be a better solution. What is Acorn? is that something you are developing?"

I feel the best solution would be to simply post the question in your own words and let others draw their own conclusion.

[JimmyD]

.... My sales are promoted only by recommendations from past users....


I don't post often, but I feel the need to in this instance. Gary has designed, built and provided ongoing support for multiple items I have purchased from him. I have always paid the 100% deposit upfront without hesitation. Gary has always provided 100% of what he promised, without hesitation.

[joe]

It's good having experts like are Gary making updates and supporting SB users. I've watched him for years and he's the real deal.

Joe

[EricSchimel]

I'll agree too Jimmy. Gary did a custom system for me and it's absolutely fantastic. He is definitely the real deal.

[ccwerks]

wow step away for a few days and the neighborhood went off the deep end.

As my original post stated I'm researching the possibilities. as I'm not that familiar with this machine.
I own an PRT Alpha. This one is owned by the company I work for. Its an older machine that I had to rebuild from the ground up. just back to stock.
I heard that it had a habit of losing steps. I'm trying to circumvent that issue. and possibly get a little more performance out of it.
My budget is non existent at this point. but I have no illusions about the cost. I have owned and operated my shop bot for the better part of 14 years.
I do get it. all that said I thank you all for your input and Ill see where this takes me.

Mark