BURL advice needed

[scottp55]

My plow guy also runs a tree service. A guy wanted an "UGLY" White Oak cut down...almost TOTALLY burl!!
Darn Shame it's White Oak, but cut a piece wet yesterday, as I know as little about Oak burl as he does.
I cut the smallest one so I could jig it fast.
TIGHT bark inclusions in interesting patterns. no idea on the rest of the bigger ones.
About Half have burl on 3/4s of the tree...rest circle tree trunk 100%
I bought 3 full ball one's, and got 3 free small odd shapes,
BUT How much do you think he could get for the truckload(Ball Park Guesstimates VERY welcome!)
Most have 3-6" of trunk attached, bu almost whole tree was burl, and he's older than me, so not always possible so he can lift it.
RAIN all day yesterday,and he'll seal end grain and saw cuts today....cut 2days ago in drizzle with 4" of snow on ground.

At least now he knows how to cut burls, and will keep a sharp eye out now(and bring it here first:)
He's been offered $200 for the truckload by a guy who does odds and ends for LLBEAN, but turned it down as it's too much hand work for that price.
His brother DOES own a WoodMizer FYI.
Here's the very smallest piece I surfaced, to see what was what.
Truck pics next.
scott

[scottp55]

Truckload pics.....There's also a piece as big around as the biggest in pics included, but over 6' in length and 100% burl and no good place to cut, and he could NOT lift it into the truck.
I've recommended asking Huston and Company(just down the road),My wood turning friend, and contacting wood turning clubs, but thought some of you guys would give me good advice.

Too bad it's not Sugar Maple, Black Walnut, or such:(
ANY advice welcome about truckload price(most desirable for him) cutting, selling individually, or slicing(but slicing is last option) welcome!
Seeing a truck come up the drive with a load of burl was kind of a nice distraction :)
Happy holidays t all!
scott

[bobmoore]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but white oak doesn't take a back seat to any species when it comes to durability or strength. Merry Christmas

[scottp55]

Thanks Bob!
Certainly heavy enough Green, while I was shifting the ones I bought , so I could seal ends with Linseed/wax butter!
Picking up a couple more pieces for myself, after surfacing a base for a shallow "banana" shaped bowl?
Going to also pick up a "scrap" piece we jokingly called called a 4' "dog bone"....has a 2 inch Ball burl at one end,a nd then 3.5' of branch, and ends with a 5" ball burl.
In shape and size it Highly reminds me of a "1800's "Indian War Club" I bought at auction in a lot of 1800's Inuit Soapstone carvings.
May use it instead of a baseball bat at front door:)

pics are of a second small Free piece. so I can suss this burl out a bit. Bark inclusions are very tight, and soak up almost no oil....wood "looks" soft, but only place my thumbnail can even mark it is in the RAPIDLY shrinking Cambium layer(given me hopes bark will remove easily?) Some bark from standing deadwood branches is coming off with fingers...and leaving beautiful solid wood shaped I associate with burl. Gotta make me a good hardwood spud, and see if bark will come off easily in a few months.

Steve offered me a deal for the entire truckload plus the two man to lift piece still at site..for a VERY reasonable price....but don't feel like loosing a garage bay or large portion of 32X8' greenhouse with BIG burl I'd have to saw up for Desktop, OR go into the Burl Biz. Never mind doing it from a wheelchair and a bad back!
Somebody could get a good deal now, as he doesn't want to clean a shed out, AND wants full use of his pickup back!

scott

[bobmoore]

Get a burl you don't like as much and put it in the driveway for people to drive over with their cars. It might debark your piece with a lot less work. Caution I haven't tried this on work pieces since I don't work much with burls, but when I drive over branches in my woods the bark gets peeled pretty fast.

[Jerry Carney]

My plow guy also runs a tree service. A guy wanted an "UGLY" White Oak cut down...almost TOTALLY burl!!
Darn Shame it's White Oak, but cut a piece wet yesterday, as I know as little about Oak burl as he does.
I cut the smallest one so I could jig it fast.
TIGHT bark inclusions in interesting patterns. no idea on the rest of the bigger ones.
About Half have burl on 3/4s of the tree...rest circle tree trunk 100%
I bought 3 full ball one's, and got 3 free small odd shapes,
BUT How much do you think he could get for the truckload(Ball Park Guesstimates VERY welcome!)
Most have 3-6" of trunk attached, bu almost whole tree was burl, and he's older than me, so not always possible so he can lift it.
RAIN all day yesterday,and he'll seal end grain and saw cuts today....cut 2days ago in drizzle with 4" of snow on ground.

At least now he knows how to cut burls, and will keep a sharp eye out now(and bring it here first:)
He's been offered $200 for the truckload by a guy who does odds and ends for LLBEAN, but turned it down as it's too much hand work for that price.
His brother DOES own a WoodMizer FYI.
Here's the very smallest piece I surfaced, to see what was what.
Truck pics next.
scott
SCOTT
How good of a job does your sealing mixture do? What are the ratio mixtures?

[scottp55]

Ha Bob.....a Burl "corduroy" road......12-18" chunks of wood on my dirt road would pretty much eliminate visitors, and make a snow wood mountain shortly with plowing:)
No vehicle myself, or I MIGHT try it on the front grown up lawn.
I think enough freeze/thaw cycles in garage would do it, but going to put them in my attached 32X8" "Plant Torture Room" (greenhouse:)....where temps this winter will range from 20-130F.
On small Yellow Birch burl Bobtail Farm gave me....I coated the flat chainsaw side with 80/20 Linseed/Beeswax "Butter" then floated in sink bark side down for 24 hours, then in and out of freezer 3 times....and it popped off with a small wedge and my smallest dead blow fast!
3235632357
May try spud soon, as cambium layer is very soft and shrink fast as it's so soft and porous...I think a Winter of freeze/thaws will do it.

Jerry, really depends on what I'm trying to do. If green logs, then recut to rid of any checking if fresh cut, then the cheapest almost "anything" to slow the end grain moisture loss will work....house paint/basement concrete sealer/almost anything will help. I happen to have a pickle jar full of the above LinWax mix left from children's blocks...so that's what I used on the fresh chainsaw cuts on the burls. I do virtually all oil finishes, so always coat fresh cutoffs with it and it won't interfere with my finish.
50/50 Food Grade Mineral oil/Beeswax,regular paraffin, or micro-crystalline wax is a non-drying non-toxic food safe finish called "Wood Butter" for cutting boards and wood utensils is good..but needs regular Easy refinishing, BUT will mess up any other finish.

For plain Vanilla wood without any outstanding grain, I mix up an 80/20 Earthpaint Linseed/Beeswax mix in a double boiler(kind of using canning jars) in simmering water(beeswax only needs 150F,so not even simmer is needed)...and then stir as it cools to homogenize. Use that as my go-to finish...Beeswax will only give you a satin finish, but sanded to 600G previously..darn close to a semi-gloss with 3-5 coats....ALL excess taken off....and then rub AGAIN with a totally clean cloth or Viva Brand paper towel.
Tung can be used also, but jells to soon for me except in very small batches.

These burls and fancy grains and exotics are getting1-2 coats of a 30/30/40mix of Earthpaint 3D Illuminator/Earthpaint Linseed/D-limonene (Milk Paint, but almost any good citrus thinner will work).
**Warning**in August, last gallon of Earthpaint takes 3-4 days to dry(used to be one coat a day with a fan), and 3D Illuminator used to be about the consistency of a brushing lacquer, and SHOCKED me when it came out like blob of cold molasses!!! Worked FINE once I added enough citrus thinner for my liking(stretches it wonderful!)

GOT to do a test of old vs. new and write them...maybe just got a bad batch that didn't get up to temp? NO heavy metal salts like hardware store "Boiled Linseed" IT'S NOT BOILED!
Cadmium and other heavy metal salts are NOT good for you or kids! Probably lost a couple years using "Japan Dryer" :(

THINK I cover it Jerry?
If not e-mail me from my contact list.
Oh....and merry Christmas back at you!
scott

[scottp55]

Played with the "bowl side" of that burl...still need to decide actual shape of the "Bowl" inside this one.
Pics are with a coat of 3 way seal on them.
Fluting toolpath and "MN"ing down to interesting wood at 1/8" depth.....and then gradually increased depth of 100% "smooth" flute, until I got the shape I kinda like.
scott

[bleeth]

A truckload of Burls cheap? Steve Glassel: Are you on the way???

[scottp55]

I was hoping for an expert opinion from Steve:)
Probably because it's White Oak and wet?
Pretty sure he'd go for $500USD.
It's his plow truck, and he has to use another truck, OR clean a shed spot to store.
He's anxious for a quick turn around...or may not keep looking for burls for me in the future.
Needs truck for blow downs from windstorm we just had.

May just buy myself and store in greenhouse... Price would DEFINITELY go UP(but DON'T want to go into Burl Biz) :)
I'd consider storing it for an immediate offer, on my front lawn....but SNOW will be a PITA shortly.
Greenhouse storage I'd charge $100 on top because of moving stuff, bu then you'd have to lug through house after snow falls.
Be a bear because of the size of some pieces...but then one 60+ yr old moved it by himself in the first place:)
You scratch my Cherry trim...YOU fix it:)
scott

[scottp55]

Only dealt with small free pieces with 50-75% burl wrap....bigger pieces still have bark inclusions even in 360 degree 14-16" ball burls in White oak?
NOT all burls are perfect smooth spheres!
Oh...last piece was cut with a Whiteside 1.25" Mortising bit at 3,1,16K up to .1" pass depth...bark inclusions stayed PUT.
Same settings for most rough cuts on the 2 pieces until I got to where I wanted, then a .02" pass depth same settings for final pass.

[steve_g]

A truckload of Burls cheap? Steve Glassel: Are you on the way???

It’s funny how life changes over night! My business partner decided to retire, sell all and live on a boat… The kiln was on his property… Lately, the most profitable thing I’m doing is cutting UHMW parts for a conveyor company… talk about a mess!

I have a few burls but can’t make myself cut them into projects, they’re so interesting just setting on the mantel!

I have zero experience with white oak, red oak, yes, but still most of my work is in Pecan.

SG

[scottp55]

Aah..That is a major change Steve:(
You DO still have your "Stash" though...right?
Your woodwork is always very nice to look at!

Did you Solar Kiln all your Red Oak burls?
Did bark stay tight....or with a little work could you get it off?
Finding just a Hint of spalt in a couple...would one Winter out help bark come off if end grain coated?

Thinking it won't take much to change my "Greenhouse" into a solar kiln, as in March/April can hit 130F before the White Oaks leaf out.
Usually can shut furnace off in house on March 1 last 15 years, just opening 2 atrium doors and turning a fan on.
Or sell any green to turners?

May just buy myself if I can dicker a couple chainsaw hours, and one or 2 slabbed on his brothers Woodmizer.
Need to cut one of my "Ball Burls" in half and cut before I go for it though.

Thanks for all help people!
scott

[scottp55]

Does anybody recognize the lathe this wheelchair guy is actually cutting on in his 'Chair?
https://vimeo.com/74453432
The height of everything looks good.
Of course the sweeping looks like a PITA:)
scott

[steve_g]

“Did you Solar Kiln all your Red Oak burls”

Sorry I miss-led you… I wasn’t talking about burl, but wood in general! In my experience, bark stays on wood that was cut during the winter and falls off spring and summer cut. My next observation is that burl is weird and doesn’t follow normal rules! Now if you ask about spalted, I can go on forever!

SG

[scottp55]

Thanks Steve.
Cut at 50F rainy day, and next day was 58F! Now frozen...may get lucky and bark will loosen.

Out to shop to cut a standing dead wood double burled branch...and cut a green ball in half before I consider buying the whole darn truckload myself.
Must be half convinced, as just bought a Japanese Log Saw, that won't be delivered till March:(
https://www.garrettwade.com/japanese-pattern-crosscutting-timber-saw-gp.html?SCID=W4011000&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv92bor-43wIVkQuRCh38AQgjEAQYASABEgKpD_D_BwE
Gonna make my own darn sheath:)
Thanks!
scott
Some may be spalted...be prepared:)

[Jerry Carney]

Ha Bob.....a Burl "corduroy" road......12-18" chunks of wood on my dirt road would pretty much eliminate visitors, and make a snow wood mountain shortly with plowing:)
No vehicle myself, or I MIGHT try it on the front grown up lawn.
I think enough freeze/thaw cycles in garage would do it, but going to put them in my attached 32X8" "Plant Torture Room" (greenhouse:)....where temps this winter will range from 20-130F.
On small Yellow Birch burl Bobtail Farm gave me....I coated the flat chainsaw side with 80/20 Linseed/Beeswax "Butter" then floated in sink bark side down for 24 hours, then in and out of freezer 3 times....and it popped off with a small wedge and my smallest dead blow fast!
3235632357
May try spud soon, as cambium layer is very soft and shrink fast as it's so soft and porous...I think a Winter of freeze/thaws will do it.

Jerry, really depends on what I'm trying to do. If green logs, then recut to rid of any checking if fresh cut, then the cheapest almost "anything" to slow the end grain moisture loss will work....house paint/basement concrete sealer/almost anything will help. I happen to have a pickle jar full of the above LinWax mix left from children's blocks...so that's what I used on the fresh chainsaw cuts on the burls. I do virtually all oil finishes, so always coat fresh cutoffs with it and it won't interfere with my finish.
50/50 Food Grade Mineral oil/Beeswax,regular paraffin, or micro-crystalline wax is a non-drying non-toxic food safe finish called "Wood Butter" for cutting boards and wood utensils is good..but needs regular Easy refinishing, BUT will mess up any other finish.

For plain Vanilla wood without any outstanding grain, I mix up an 80/20 Earthpaint Linseed/Beeswax mix in a double boiler(kind of using canning jars) in simmering water(beeswax only needs 150F,so not even simmer is needed)...and then stir as it cools to homogenize. Use that as my go-to finish...Beeswax will only give you a satin finish, but sanded to 600G previously..darn close to a semi-gloss with 3-5 coats....ALL excess taken off....and then rub AGAIN with a totally clean cloth or Viva Brand paper towel.
Tung can be used also, but jells to soon for me except in very small batches.

These burls and fancy grains and exotics are getting1-2 coats of a 30/30/40mix of Earthpaint 3D Illuminator/Earthpaint Linseed/D-limonene (Milk Paint, but almost any good citrus thinner will work).
**Warning**in August, last gallon of Earthpaint takes 3-4 days to dry(used to be one coat a day with a fan), and 3D Illuminator used to be about the consistency of a brushing lacquer, and SHOCKED me when it came out like blob of cold molasses!!! Worked FINE once I added enough citrus thinner for my liking(stretches it wonderful!)

GOT to do a test of old vs. new and write them...maybe just got a bad batch that didn't get up to temp? NO heavy metal salts like hardware store "Boiled Linseed" IT'S NOT BOILED!
Cadmium and other heavy metal salts are NOT good for you or kids! Probably lost a couple years using "Japan Dryer" :(

THINK I cover it Jerry?
If not e-mail me from my contact list.
Oh....and merry Christmas back at you!
scott



Scott, thank you, Wow you are busy guy at the key board.

[scottp55]

A lot more mixes depending on use.....Andrew C. get's GORGEOUS finishes by a coat of Watco.....wait a week....and then spray a commercial finish(?)
Do e-mail if needed for something oil finish related, and thanks for all the kind comments this year!

Yep...do tend to ramble!

Steve.....When my Steve showed with the pickup load....one piece I made sure I grabbed was the WORST CASE in the truckload. PUNKY!!! Jigging now to see if any spalting or anything interesting.
Shoulda bought that wood hardener, but too cold in garage anyways:)
Spring will come eventually:)
scott

[scottp55]

Dang!
He offered me the load on the 24'th for $400.....shoulda took it, but not a wood turner and it was a lot of wood and money.
Did another piece yesterday, and decided to buy the load.
Didn't want to bug him on Christmas, and know darn well he works 6:30am almost every day.....BUT I was polite and waited till 9am, in case He WAS sleeping late the day after.
While I was being polite...the guy who offered $200 and got refused showed back up at 6:30am, and dickered.
Sold the entire load for $575, and was delivering it when I called:( :(
When you see special wood AND it's reasonable......BUY it!
Cleaned the greenhouse at least:)
STILL 5 cherry picked pieces CHEAP(and 3 free) are better than nothing.
Yesterday's cut decided me.
scott

[scottp55]

Cut the smallest burl left in half along the "Lobe" line, and on the better half, just cut a slight dish shape on the top for a gem display yesterday.

Tried 7 different arrays for a fluting toolpath with vectors Trimmed with the Trim Vectors tool, with 4 different bits.....and didn't like ANY of them because of that "fissure" that Mom said she liked...it broke the symmetry of the Fluting too much.
BUT Phill05 on the Vectric forum whipped me up an .STL in Aspire as a favor for some wildlife pics he's modeling I've been sending:)
Worked a treat!

Now just to determine if it's mine and leave the way it is...or if Mom likes it...then have to flip and machine base(Dome shape with 3 vectors for legs with a .5"BN maybe?)....
As she does NOT like a lot of bark.
Bark is TIGHT!!!
So far all this playing has only cost $10:)
I'll get nervous on the 2 big burls left to saw!
scott

[scottp55]

Getting to the last 2 biggest White Oak burls now....handsawed the buggy one after baking at 160F for 6 hours to Kill everything!
NOT liking wood boring bugs!!
That'll teach me not to pick burls on a cold December night with a flashlight in a HURRY!!
On first cut I had to set VC AND VCP to Safe-Z's of .005" or it hit Z-prox....And first cut with low stepover on the 1.25" Whiteside was STILL .4" thick!

Wound up with a 2 and 4" thick slice when finished. May still cut some more after exploring the bug cavities...was hoping for a shallow bowl shapes for mineral specimen display.
Maybe not..OR Maybe a good chance to carve stones to fill holes? Who knows yet:)

White Oak burls will never be my favorite burl....but it kinda grows on you:)

Funny....Close to the bark when you start surfacing....it looks like what you think of when you think "Burl"....the closer to the pith...less so.

[dmidkiff]

You have all the fun.

[scottp55]

NOW David:)
The year and a half prototyping dozens of Dad's ideas and learning was ok, the the 18 months of production with people showing up 5 days a week and saying "Let's GO Scott", and only playing maybe a half day a week STUNK:)
SO much happier playing/learning and doing whatever, when the urge hits me!
Never knew burl shrinks as it dries so much more than the pith of the tree. REALLY interesting tactile ridges and shapes when cut wet, and letting it do it's thing.
Trying to make something useful with bug holes is straining my brain! With Aspire it would be so much easier creating shapes!

Had 2 medium Maple branches fall this past Winter....maybe get 3 small crotch pieces and some more Critter wood out of them:)
Out cutting them today.
scott