Exterior sign advice.

[gundog]

I am trying to design and make a new sign for my church. Signs are not something I usually make. Cost is a factor we have a small church and funds are tight. The existing sign is broken but has a very nice brick base to work with.

Can an exterior sign be made from insulation foam and sealed effectively?

The sign will be about 68" x 47" overall. I will post some pictures of the existing sign and the current design that I made with my Pastor.

I tried to post the image of the simulation that showed texture but the file was too large and it would not let me upload it.

Thanks Mike

[joe]

Michael,

"I am trying to design and make a new sign for my church"

Wondering if this is Christian. The design doesn't look very spiritual. No matter what material you end up with, it's the design that rules.

There's a world of decorative scrolls and designs that can be incorporated in the background. They are often used to support for a beautiful font. Your design needs a little Soul.

Joe
www.normansignco.com

[EricSchimel]

I'd take a look here for some information on sign foam:

http://www.signfoam.com/technical.html

That should get you headed in the right direction.

If you're having trouble posting images take a screen shot of Aspire and post that.

[Jerry Carney]

Michael,

"I am trying to design and make a new sign for my church"

Wondering if this is Christian. The design doesn't look very spiritual. No matter what material you end up with, it's the design that rules.

There's a world of decorative scrolls and designs that can be incorporated in the background. They are often used to support for a beautiful font. Your design needs a little Soul.

Joe
www.normansignco.com



Joe I totally agree, He could spruce it up spiritualy. Just a fyi

[robtown]

Big Box insulation foam is NOT a viable choice. Too soft, too porous. Even if you could manage to get a decent finish on it, you'll just be replacing it a lot. Plus all the insulation foam available at the Big Boxes in my area is prescored for breaking it apart.

Sign Foam or HDU is a decent choice, but you'll have to get it from a sign supply, and it isn't cheap. It does carve and finish well, but it is also susceptible to damage in high winds or hail.

Home Depots in my area sell 1/2" pvc sheets (like Sintra or Komatex) which would work. it's not as dense as what you can get from a sign supply, but it carves well and finishes well. There's a lot of info out there on the webs on how to finish it. I wouldn't ask for advice on how to finish it here since you mentioned the "d" or "v" word.

[gundog]

Michael,

"I am trying to design and make a new sign for my church"

Wondering if this is Christian. The design doesn't look very spiritual. No matter what material you end up with, it's the design that rules.

There's a world of decorative scrolls and designs that can be incorporated in the background. They are often used to support for a beautiful font. Your design needs a little Soul.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)



Hi Joe,
I feel the same way my Pastor likes it but to me it looks very amateurish I am not very artistic.

6:8 is a Christian church the 6:8 is from Micah 6:8 "He has shown you O Man what is good to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God".

I was hoping you would see this and give me some advice to make a better sign. I don't like the font in the circle with 6:8 but it is the logo for the church. I did have some texture in the background but the bitmap image was too large to upload on here. I don't plan to go into sign making but I would like this to look as good as possible.

Thanks Mike

[coryatjohn]

Why not repair the old sign?

[gundog]

Why not repair the old sign?

It is in bad shape and hand painted over the old church sign (Whipple Creek Church). It is made from 1/4 plastic of some type and painted it has a large corner broken and was designed to be lighted from inside but we have lost power to the sign and the electric service runs under the church parking lot. The plan is to light the new sign with some solar LED flood lights. The brick base is in good shape and looks nice.

[gundog]

Here is the image the software created. I have the latest version of Aspire. I have not added any color to anything but the font so it would stand out. I plan to carve the sign and let one of the other members paint it. This is not a paying job it is just me helping out the church. I normally machine mechanical type parts from plastic & aluminum.

[gundog]

I was hoping to make something like this http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24648-my-first-3d-sign-with-imported-wood-texture&highlight=carved+sign

What material is this made from? My artistic ability leaves me a little short I know what I like once I see it but actually designing it is something else.

[bobmoore]

Mike in my opinion as a sign maker the story that your sign is trying to tell is about God or Jesus and how your church interacts with them. It is not about the logo of the church. Minimize the logo and move it off to a corner somewhere and get the main image for the sign to instill love or mercy or whatever your main message is. People driving past that sign need to visually see a story in about 3 seconds. I hope that helps. Bob
P.S. I will have your vac pump ready on Wednesday the 13th

[robtown]

I was hoping to make something like this http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?24648-my-first-3d-sign-with-imported-wood-texture&highlight=carved+sign

What material is this made from? My artistic ability leaves me a little short I know what I like once I see it but actually designing it is something else.

Pretty sure that's HDU (High Density Urethane). There's different brands and densities. I've used green stuff like that before, but I don't recall the brand name. Call any sign supply and ask for pricing on Sign Foam or whatever brand it is they carry.

Does aspire do reliefs from photos? (I can't recall)
If so you can just get some decent high res photos of wood grains and do a blasted wood texture like that using those photos.

[gundog]

Thank you the advice it really helps I would like to tweak the design and I have sent a link to this thread to my Pastor David it is not too late to change it until I start cutting. I am leaning towards using sheet PVC and make it using layers.

[joe]

Mike,

Out of all respect for your pastor It's doubtful he's a designer. I would suggest you put materials, textures and mechanical steps out of your mind and concentrate on the image. Attached is a photo by Sam Staffin. He feels, as I do, church signs are most responsible of our work.

After all, churches are the place we where we gather for the precious steps in our lives.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32562&stc=1

[Chuck Keysor]

Mike, I am totally with Joe on this one. I don't think I have ever seen such a cryptic sign in my life, let alone one for a church.

Another approach might be to just look around your town, and on the Internet for pictures of church signs. Find something that looks like it conveys a welcoming invitation, as well as some graphics that suggest what type of church it is. (Crosses, doves, traditional Christian symbols, etc would be in order as fundamental elements to include.

It may be providential that your old sign was damaged. It can give you and your church a new opportunity for an improved outreach to your community.

Chuck

[robtown]

Mike, I am totally with Joe on this one. I don't think I have ever seen such a cryptic sign in my life, let alone one for a church.

Another approach might be to just look around your town, and on the Internet for pictures of church signs. Find something that looks like it conveys a welcoming invitation, as well as some graphics that suggest what type of church it is. (Crosses, doves, traditional Christian symbols, etc would be in order as fundamental elements to include.

It may be providential that your old sign was damaged. It can give you and your church a new opportunity for an improved outreach to your community.

Chuck
It could be one of those churches working to attract a younger crowd.

[joe]

I'm sure Rob is correct.

It's always a challenge to build a comforting and inviting image that captures the spirit of a particular denomination. It's almost like capturing light in a bottle but that's the job. One thing for sure it shouldn't look commercial.

[coryatjohn]

>> One thing for sure it shouldn't look commercial.

or a BYOB Gentlemen's club...

[Jerry Carney]

Mike,

Out of all respect for your pastor It's doubtful he's a designer. I would suggest you put materials, textures and mechanical steps out of your mind and concentrate on the image. Attached is a photo by Sam Staffin. He feels, as I do, church signs are most responsible of our work.

After all, churches are the place we where we gather for the precious steps in our lives.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32562&stc=1

Joe, this sign sure looks inviting ,presintation is everything. JERRY

[joe]

There are times when symbolism will show the way. It's ever so easy to design for the Greek Orthodox with Byzentine historical images. But the youngsters feel more comfortable with current images. All of this proceeds turning on the router.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32570&stc=1

[GeneMpls]

That looks to me like Duna Corafoam to me, used to be hard to find and others and I went together to buy a couple thousand dollars worth to enable shipping [from Texas I think] but it is lovely to work with and at that time was way better than the HDU foams on the market.

[robtown]

There are times when symbolism will show the way. It's ever so easy to design for the Greek Orthodox with Byzentine historical images. But the youngsters feel more comfortable with current images. All of this proceeds turning on the router.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32570&stc=1
I do agree that, even if the intent is to look more contemporary so as to try and attract the younger crowd, you could and should find some ways to include more traditional symbols in the design.
There's a number of Churches in my area that cater to the younger crowds, they have rock shows, electronic extravaganzas, a lot of man buns in the audience, coffee shops, etc... One or two of them have logos and signage that don't make it readily evident of what they do, or why they do it.
Here's some examples of more "modern" looks:
http://sojournwoodstock.com/
https://jubileechurch.com/
https://www.hishandschurch.com/
https://piedmontchurch.tv/
https://www.livinghopega.com/
http://northstarchurch.org/

[gundog]

Thank you so much for the feedback I just had a conversation with David about some of the things brought up in this thread. He was asking if I knew of any examples of church signs we could look at. We are also talking about construction materials. He wanted to know if we could layer MDO for some of the elements then using PVC for the areas to carve and if there were any examples of signs made this way. I was wondering how the edges of the MDO are sealed.

Thanks Mike

[joe]

Rob,

Thank you very much for the time and effort to gather and post all those fine examples. I know what it takes. Your posts show some excellent and thoughtful concepts. All professionally done.

Joe
www.normansignco.com

[bleeth]

I would not use MDO in this way. Signs made today using MDO typically use only MDO as a flat base to be painted and/or built up with another material like PVC overlaid and bordered within a frame to prevent moisture from getting in the edges. Not saying it can't be done. It is just not best practice. Although it is an exterior grade product the edges are difficult to seal cosmetically and functionally. PVC however does not absorb water and that is why it is a preferred material for exterior use when carving or building up overlay layers and being much more impact resistant than the usual density used of sign foam (15-20LB). The only real caveat for PVC is too avoid painting it black.

[robtown]

I would not use MDO in this way. Signs made today using MDO typically use only MDO as a flat base to be painted and/or built up with another material like PVC overlaid and bordered within a frame to prevent moisture from getting in the edges. Not saying it can't be done. It is just not best practice. Although it is an exterior grade product the edges are difficult to seal cosmetically and functionally. PVC however does not absorb water and that is why it is a preferred material for exterior use when carving or building up overlay layers and being much more impact resistant than the usual density used of sign foam (15-20LB). The only real caveat for PVC is too avoid painting it black.
Taking it back to one of Joe's original points.... I would suggest you design the sign, then select your materials. Not design the sign around your material selections.

[gundog]

Taking it back to one of Joe's original points.... I would suggest you design the sign, then select your materials. Not design the sign around your material selections.

The design of the sign will not change a lot from the original I posted but the elements and what the sign says may change it is still going to be a multi layered sign and choosing the proper construction material is important. The construction is on my plate I am also designing the sign with the input of Pastor David I plan to try and spruce it up with the advice gained here.

[joe]

Perhaps you'll attempt to give your sign a "churchey" look. What you have now looks like an entrance to a Bowling Alley. A third grade attempt. Layering won't add much without the spiritual message.

Look forward to seeing the final.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[gundog]

Perhaps you'll attempt to give your sign a "churchey" look. What you have now looks like an entrance to a Bowling Alley. A third grade attempt. Layering won't add much without the spiritual message.

Look forward to seeing the final.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

Thanks Joe that was really helpful.