first cuts with new shopbot - ragged edges [Archive]

View Full Version : first cuts with new shopbot - ragged edges

Rocco.G

12-02-2021, 05:27 PM

Hi all,

After much trials and tribulations i've finally gotten this beastie up and running. While I'll be doing mostly aluminum cutting for signs, I had some HDU to play with. See the attached photos of a Phila Eagles logo that I just cut. It was done in Aspire and the original 2d was imported from Corel as a PDF. The preview didn't look as bad as the final cut. I've used this artwork to cut sign vinyl before and it came out with smooth curves. Is this just a case of the machine following the paths more exactly that my sign plotter or am I doing something wrong? Maybe I just need to smooth the curves better. I did forget to include a last pass so that might help and also should be using a smaller bit to get further into the tight spots.

Bits used if that matters.
1/2" 2 flute straight bit - roughing
1/8" ball nose - 'final pass'
1/4" end mill - profile pass

Thanks!

3481034811

scottp55

12-02-2021, 05:54 PM

Rocco,
Lots of stuff on the Vectric Forum to reduce "Jaggies"...here's just one thread;
https://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38107&p=277553&hilit=jaggies#p277553

A LOT has to do on the job setup Resolution and job size to pack as many pixels in a given area to "smooth" pixelation....here's just one thread on it;
https://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?t=29972

Resolution MUST be done on 3Ds Before you import them.
(changing resolution after import does nothing to anything already imported)
Hope I'm understanding your problem correctly.

LOTS more on the subject in the Vectric forum!
scott

OH..... forgot for a second....the 2 highest Resolutions are Not visible unless Shift key is held down when pressing Start a New Job;
https://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?t=32398
I use 50X a lot...and really does slow down toolpath calculations, but with time saved sanding and prep afterwards, it's Worth it!

chiloquinruss

12-02-2021, 06:12 PM

"Normally" - don't you just love that word. . . . in my limited experience this is caused because the imported image came from a DXF file and not a vector based file. The DXF does not support smooth bezier curves such as those from most cad programs. In Aspire switch to the "NODE" mode and look at that same toolpath. It is probably exactly what your machine just cut. Just a thought, Russ

dlcw

12-03-2021, 02:45 PM

Russ, you are right on the money. Files without smooth curves makes for a pretty ragged looking carving. I always take any imported projects and go into NODE editing to smooth curves and eliminate the MANY points associated with imported files.

srwtlc

12-03-2021, 03:48 PM

Nodes that bad would be easily seen without going into node editing.

"1/8" ball nose - final pass" Was this final pass a 3D toolpath?

Rocco.G

12-04-2021, 09:25 AM

Hi all,
Thanks for the info. I've attached a screen shot of the nodes from a small section. They "look" smooth enough. If you zoom in you can see how jagged the original imported file was. This is from the original artwork I got from the Eagles (I did a banner for them for my wifes school back in '12) and it was an EPS file.

What I did was just import the file from Corel and then made toolpaths from the various layers. What I did NOT do for the first cut was make a 3D model, which I have since done (screen shot below) with smoothing applied. I should have realized that I needed to do this because I had cut another 3D model that I'd made of my daughters school mascot. That one (while still not perfect - which I don't expect at this point), was much smoother.

I'll re-cut it over the weekend and report back.

34813

34814

srwtlc

12-06-2021, 10:45 AM

The "jaggies" you see in the one screenshot is pixelation due to model resolution. A 3D toolpath will follow this and depending on bit diameter and stepover, will yeild poor edge quality. Tips to reduce this....bump up the modeling resolution in job setup and make the job size as close as possible to your part size. There are two higher resolutions than the normal three that can be accessed by holding shift when clicking on the job setup icon. This will make the pixels smaller, thus smoothing out the edges, and the ballnose tool will leave a better edge. Along with that, use no more than 8% - 10% stepover, and apply a slight draft angle to the walls to allow the tool to ramp up to an over the wall instead of coming to a stop at the wall edge before raising up.

chiloquinruss

12-08-2021, 10:57 PM

On the left is a 225 point capitol letter S saved as a JPG, brought into Aspire and shows the segmented line interpretation. On the right is 225 point capitol letter S showing that a vector S will give you smooth edges and the other . . . . Russ

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34826&stc=1

Rocco.G

12-09-2021, 08:50 AM

Folks,

Lots of food for thought. Thank you!

i did rework the file and made it a baked 3d model, then re-cut. It would have been just about perfect except that I forgot that when I baked the model, it came out much shallower. The original was about 1.4" (cut from 1.5" HDU) and cut fine - no machine issues I mean. The baked model, being shallower caused the machine to bottom out, the dust foot came off, teh skirt got chewed up, etc. The parts that were cut before the foot came loose looked much better, though still not perfect. I'm too busy with work right now to do (the sign business gets crazy at this time of year) a third test cut but next week I'll try again and report back with the result.

I know that this is just the beginning of a long journey but at least I've started. It took nearly a year from delivery (due to covid and all electrical contractors being swamped) to get the 3 phase power run and hooked up. i have another question about speeds on ball nose bits but will start a separate thread on that.

Thanks!

Rocco

coryatjohn

12-09-2021, 08:54 AM

What machine do you have? Did you actually buy a brand new Shopbot?

scottp55

12-09-2021, 10:29 AM

John;
Under "about me"
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/member.php?10508-Rocco-G

coryatjohn

12-09-2021, 10:51 AM

John;
Under "about me"
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/member.php?10508-Rocco-G

Oh my. That's a big one.

scottp55

12-09-2021, 01:41 PM

It would take up a third of my tiny space!
Desktops have their place. :)
2 and 2.5D with smooth curves and different form bits would be the way to go at that size!
3D would take forever, as even mine has 19 hour cuts with Tiny bits.
Each machine has it's own place. :)

Rocco.G

12-09-2021, 04:09 PM

Yes, I bought a new machine. 6' x 10' PRS-alpha with a 5hp 3 phase spindle and ATC and vacuum hold-down plus the Aspire software. Buying American made (even if they outsource the motors, etc.) is important to me. I make outdoor electrical signs and wanted to be able to cut 6x8 sheets, 4x10 sheets, etc. TBH I should have gotten the 6' x 12' machine but that would have meant COMPLETLY re-arranging my shop. I'm small fry but the big sign shops have machines up to 10' x 20' or even larger. The first order I got was for an 11' long sign. My machine wasn't up and running yet so I sent it to one of my suppliers who routed it for me. Yes I know that I can panel/tile jobs but 12' sheets are fairly common (if expensive) in sign materials - aluminum, HDU, plastics, etc. I really could have used this for a job earlier in the year when we made 54" illuminated letters with a 72" lit logo.

At first it was going to be a buddy, then a buddy with the extra length arms (to cut 4x8 sheets). However that would take up too much floor space (for what it cuts) because of moving back/forth. Plus it can't have a vac hold-down. Then it was supposed to be a 4x8 gantry, then 5x8... I did a lot of research and kept hearing from sign people to "buy your 2nd or 3rd machine first" so I got the biggest one I could fit in here. As one example of what I do, I am cutting some 5' x 8' 0.125 aluminum sheets (just rectangles cut out of the full sheet) next week. Well, once the material arrives.

I've been using it as a manual machine until I can find the time to set up the ATC. I cut up a 4x8 sheet of ACM last night and the vac worked like a charm - even if I did have to cover up parts of the air zones with extra ACM cut-offs. ACM is a sheet of solid (supposedly recycled) plastic with a thin layer of aluminum on each face.

I really want to do 3D signs and get out of the electrical game. However, I'm realistic and the 3D stuff is just playtime for me. Well, at least for now.

I'll stop here before I write my usual 'novel'. Sign people deal in words and we do run off at the mouth/keyboard all too easily.

coryatjohn

12-10-2021, 09:09 AM

Rocco - Curious why you selected Shopbot over other manufacturers. Don't see many new SB owners on this forum anymore.

bill.young

12-10-2021, 02:15 PM

I've noticed that the ShopBot Facebook groups are more active than the forum has been recently, though not sure why that is?

And I can't speak for Rocco and his specific reason for buying a ShopBot, but we have shipped 20 tools this week so ShopBots are selling and shipping. This is a (sideways I'm afraid!) picture of one of the trucks being loaded today:

34827

coryatjohn

12-10-2021, 03:39 PM

dlcw

12-10-2021, 04:49 PM

Rocco.G

12-10-2021, 06:32 PM

I didn't know there was a FB page for shopbot. I really don't use FB all that much but will check it out. i really think that message boards are going the way of the dinosaurs because of FB and all the other social media options. The biggest US sign magazine used to have a rocking message board, but its very dead in recent years other than trucks for sale. I'm a dinosaur myself so...

i went to their basic training, saw how they make the machines, etc. And as an aside, have been jonesing for a Bojangles breakfast biscuit sandwich ever since. Also, their tech support is available til 9pm and even on weekends - and they answer quickly. Plus they are American made - even if certain components are imported. I'm a small manufacturer of signs (tiny actually) and am seeing an growing influx of complete signs from china. Even with shipping costs, now rising, a few of my customers buy signs from china. I do a LOT of installation work for national sign companies (some with HUGE CNC machines - like 10' x 20', maybe bigger) and even some of the "we'll never buy from china" have been getting things from there. I.E. one customer who has a 200,000 square foot facility gets small brass fabricated letters from the far east for less than what it would cost them for the materials here in the US.

As I mentioned above, i wanted to just buy a machine once and be done with it so I got as large as I could fit in my workshop (2500 sq ft). And I still wish I'd gotten the 6' x 12' machine. I know someone who has a Laguna and while he doesn't complain about the machine, he does say that getting parts is a PIA. One time I bought a vinyl plotter on the cheap from a company that only sells imports and it was a nightmare getting tech support and parts. it took six months to get an interface card. Recently I damaged my dust foot (totally my own fault) and Shopbot sent me one under warranty and I got it in two days. Their salesman, Buddy Warner, even called me and helped to walk me though a few steps of getting the machine going for very first cuts. Thanks buddy! It's nice old Southern hospitality on their part. And I just felt comfortable dealing with them. Even if it costs a bit more it's worth it to me to have good customer service with a supplier.

And before I run off at the mouth/keyboard anymore than this I'll stop here.

coryatjohn

12-10-2021, 08:57 PM

Rocco - I had the same opinion when I bought mine back in 2013. I've had virtually no problems that weren't caused by fluctuations in the actual power so I'm a happy camper.

If your machine is setup and grounded properly, then you should get years of excellent service from your machine. The support, as you've already found out, is very good. I haven't used them much but when I have asked, I got a good answer quickly.

bill.young

12-11-2021, 05:06 PM

I'm glad to see Shopbot is still shipping some larger tools. :-)

Don't worry....we still sell lots of big tools. About 60% of the tools we ship are gantry tools

Gary Campbell

12-12-2021, 10:43 AM

I've noticed that the ShopBot Facebook groups are more active than the forum has been recently, though not sure why that is?

I did a facebooks group search for "ShopBot" thinking it could be a more "polite" way to advertise my replacement controllers, but the search didnt show any more (maybe less) activity than this forum:

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34828&stc=1