Wireless and LAN Networks

[stickman]

I am having a rough time of getting anything to work. I am wanting to have my laptop on a wireless network. I am using a D-link wireless router at the design computer and I have a netgear wireless card in my laptop (it was given to me. I was working on it the other day, I got the internet to connect at the laptop, it updated my virus programs, everything was working fine.. but I couldn't get the file sharing to work. Then I messed up something and now I am back to square one. Both computers will find each other, but when I try to get file sharing to work, I can get access to the files or I can't get access to anything but the computer name. Is there any good place to find a simple step be step instruction for this. As far as I am concerned Windoze, setup up Wizards are nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I'm not even going to get started on my Bluetooth device that will not connect...

[paco]

Maybe you could have a look at this site (http://www.homenethelp.com/) that I've founded for basic networking.

Just a quick tip about this kind of trouble; go back to basic... are you administrator, are config set correctly, what work and what won't work...

[seana]

Jay,
Make sure that the folder that you want to “share” has had sharing enabled.

Go to the folder that you want to share on your hard drive and highlight it (click once).
Right click and select “Sharing and Security”.
Select the “Sharing” tab
Select the “Network sharing and security”
Check the box “Share this folder on the network”
Give it a name that you will recognize later.
Check the box “Allow network users to change my files”

You will need to do this for each folder that you want to share on each computer.
Or you can just select the “C” drive and all the folders and subfolders will be available to all computers on the network.

The only other thing is to set up wireless security otherwise your neighbors will have access to your stuff as well.

Hope this helps.

If not let us know what operating system you are using on both computers.

Sean

[richards]

Jay,

You might have the same problem that I'm having. Before I finally got DSL service, I used wireless between my Alpha and my design station. Everything worked great - for over a year. As soon as I got DSL, which had a wireless router, the Shopbot to network wireless connection started acting up. Replacing cards didn't help. Turning off wireless in the DSL router didn't work. Adding a bridge didn't work. Wireless just didn't work anymore. Since I'm not willing to give up DSL and go back to a sloooow modem, I finally ran a cable from the network switch to the Shopbot computer.

I have no idea what's going on (and I'm supposed to be somewhat of an expert in networking - having built and maintained commercial networks for a number of years).

-Mike

[dvanr]

Jay,

From my own experiences, update the wireless drivers for all your computers to the latest version really helps.

When setting up and trying to get it to work, turn of data encryption. It can cause problems if a dynamic IP address is being assigned. If your going computer to computer you need to use "ad hoc" not infrastructure. Once your setup turn data encryption back on.

Try picking a channel not used (or near) to someone else . I discovered that being in the flight path to the local airport, drops the connection for channels below 5 here when a plane comes into land.

If your using "ad hoc" try assigning an IP address for the connection on each side, the network connection can still be dynamic (probably needs to)

No guarantees any of the above will work. Some of it did the first time I installed , after my re install after a crash I am still trying to get back to where I was....its all a bit of a mystery..

[dvanr]

Forgot to add..

If you have a firewall running , you need to go into "trusted zones" and add the IP address range that your two laptops are using to communicate. Still no guarantee as I can only get my win98 machine to push and pull files to my xp machine but not the other way around.

[stickman]

Guys,

Thanks for the help, I will work on it again, when I have time. I spend too much time getting it to work.. and not enough time painting and cutting files.

Right now I am burning files to a CD and then taking them to the shop computer. I had bought a USB flash drive, but it will only work on a windows 98SE <---- SE? What the? Second Edition.. when did that come into play. I am just considering updating the shop computer...

Jay...

[richards]

A few posts ago I said that as soon as I started using DSL that the wireless connection became flakey. The blame can be placed squarely on the ACTIONTEC DSL Modem/router furnished by QWEST.

Yesterday when I started playing with port forwarding the ACTIONTEC modem wouldn't forward the port on the private network to the public network.

This morning I installed a CISCO 678 modem and a Netgear 614 router on my network. Everything started working just as it had before the DSL line as added. (The Netgear 614 took hours to setup because some engineer wanted to 'simplify' things. Twice I had it back in the box to return to the store and twice I decided to try just a few minutes longer. It probably serves me right for all of the times that I released code/hardware that only I knew how to operate.)

Bottom line: the wireless connection to the computer that runs the Shopbot works great.

[matt_r]

Mike,
Sorry to hear about your experience. I have the same QWEST Actiontec wireless router, and it all works great for me. I have a Netgear card on my SB computer, and I have a Microsoft Wireless Lan Card in my laptop. Both work very well. Its nice to be able to transfer design files out to the shop over the network rather than by jump drive or disk. Glad to hear that you got it worked out.
Matt

[richards]

Matt,
The Actiontec saga was a strange experience. The wireless network (controlled entirely by the Actiontec router) was totally flaky. When I toggled the Actiontec's wireless function OFF, it still showed up in the SSID listing. Putting the old Linksys 'B' series access point didn't work at all. The Netgear 'G' series PCI card would not connect with either the Actiontec or the Linksys. In desperation, I connected the computer in the shop to the network with a standard CAT-5 cable, knowing that eventually I would get feedback that would adversely affect the rest of the network.

After replacing the Actiontec with a Cisco 678, the original Linksys access point worked perfectly, and the Netgear router also worked as an access point (after messing around for several hours). This evening, all twelve computers that are currently powered up on the network, are working properly.

Most likely I just had a marginal Actiontec modem/router.

[marshawk]

I thought about using a wireless network but was concerned about how it affected other wireless things like phones - or how it was affected by outside signals.

Another concern is the transfer rate. Does wireless transfer as fast as copper?

Chip

[stickman]

I have had no luck at all with my wireless connections.. on minute I have a connection.. the next.. my computer is only talking on way.. the next I have nothing.. and lets not even go to the internet.. it will log onto the PC, but the LAPTOP says there is an internet connection but there isn't.. So much for Plug and Play..

[dirk]

I Like wire
It goes through walls easier and connects faster. It's a lot less time consuming for me than trying to get a wireless working and keep it working

[fleinbach]

I agree with Dick

I have worked with electronics all my life and have tried every type wireless gadget out there and as far as I'm concerned I will run hardwire be it old fashioned copper or today’s fiber optics, but in either case a physical connection. Unless you are purchasing extremely high dollar equipment you will most likely experience problems from leaking RF frequencies.

[danhamm]

I have my own wireless system..50 miles of it,
starting with a service provider in the local town...not city..5 radio's 4 bridges and one a.p.
I have never had a problem..other than lightning, killing one bridge,"but" the wireless routers for home use..I don't have much use for..
I finally put a building to building A.P.in and now even my lan works good..it seems the home use routers can't seem to handle the WAN and the Lan with more than one or two on wireless. ...Dan

[Towersonline]

I have 5 computers on a wireless network with no problems. I am using all LinkSys gear including the router. My total cost about $175.00. Got most of it on E-Bay. We previously had a wired system in the offices but we were moving things around so much it made sense to switch. ... Bill T

[richards]

Wireless can have a lot of 'gotchas', but if handled correctly, and with reliable equipment, it usually works quite well.

At a lab south of Salt Lake City, where I'm a consultant with responsibility to keep the company's computers running and wireless service operating to the entire city, I've had little trouble, other than on rainy/snowy days when the moisture in the air causes lots of interferance. We usually keep the single T1 line saturated 20+ hours per day.

Here at the home shop, things are less controlled. In my neighborhood, within range of my wireless are six other signals. The trick has been to pick a channel that no one else is using and to encrypt the data. Other than having problems with the Actiontec modem/router/wireless, mentioned above, wireless has worked very well for me.

Throughput is substantially less with wireless (802.11g) than it is with copper. However, the SBP files that I use are small enough that it makes no practical difference.

I do NOT like to run copper to any computer that is around industrial equipment, like the Shopbot. Things happen, usually things that destroy electronics. Loosing fifteen computers due to an 'accident' in the shop is not worth the risk. Running fiber is an excellent way to isolate the shop from the rest of the computers, but at a minimum cost of $300+, it's a little pricey if only one computer is in the shop. When I was having problems with the Actiontec, I hardwired the shop computer to the rest of the network, but only had the network cable plugged in when I needed to upload files to the shop computer. It was a bother to plug/unplug the cable several times a day, but keeping the network safe made it necessary.

(Totally off topic, but perhaps interesting, was a computer failure that I had during the night. Before shutting things down for the day, I blew out the shop computer with the shop's air hose - 90-125 psi, something that I do regularly. One of the blades on one of the computer's case fans must have cracked from the pressure because this morning, when I opened the computer's case to see why the computer had stopped during the night, I saw that one blade from the case fan had broken off and had been sucked into the CPU fan. The CPU fan was blocked, causing the CPU to temperature fault, and everything stopped. Of the hundreds of computers that I've built and maintained for various customer over the years, this was something new.)

[marshawk]

I run a copper network with 8 computers and a networked printer. The copper has never given me a problem. Some of our SBP files are over 100MB, so I need the extra speed that the copper provides.

I really don't see the need to change what I have now, but may in the future when Wireless becomes faster and more reliable.

FO would be great, especially with the newer connectors. The early ones were a real pain with the ceramic and the epoxy... But, as you said: $$$.

I AM thinking of changing to a gigabyte network, mainly so that backups will run a little faster.

I am still amused by the fact that, on a 100MBPS network, it takes about 45 seconds to transfer 100MB.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion! I am staying put for now.

Chip

[richards]

Chip,
Often misunderstood is the speed system used on networks. The term is 100Mbps, with a lower-case 'b', which means 'bits per second' (not 'bytes' per second). Each 'byte' is eight 'bits'. In addition, each 'byte' has a 'start' and a 'stop' bit encapsulating the byte. And then to make transmission even slower, the bytes are packaged into packets with 'header' information. Sometimes the header contains more bytes than the data in the packet. Most computers can't handle a steady stream of data; meaning that the computer has to take some time to process the data which can significantly slow things down. Finally, packets are frequently dropped, due to data collisions, requiring the sended to resent the packet. The 100base-T system that is normally used, allows any or all computers on the network to transmit whenever there is a lull in data transmission. If two or more computers start to transmit simultaneously, a collision occurs and each computer has to wait a finite period of time ( the delay is hardwired into the network interface inside the computer) before resending the data. Multiple collisions can occur requiring multiple delays. So, in a perfect world where data packets could be sent without headers and collisions never occured, a 100MB (megabyte) file would take about 10 seconds to transfer (8 bits per byte plus start and stop bits). Getting it there in 45 seconds is doing pretty good, all things considered.

[marshawk]

Oh, I know. I've been working with and building networks for about 15 years now. When I was stationed at the Naval Western Oceanography Center in Pearl Harbor, I was tasked with trying to move information from our new unclassified LAN to the new Secret LAN. Information could flow one way, but not the other. Nothing I tried worked except for bringing the data rate down to 75bps with no handshaking, plain text. Even then it took about an hour to force one page of text into the other computer.

It's just the whole network speed folderol that makes me cackle. Usually there is a disclaimer giving the reasons for speeds slower than face value. But there has never been a need for one. It's like the "plug and play" folks just push the "I Believe" button and continue happily on their way...

[stickman]

Okay, here is one for you. I am looking at location options. I want to be able to design at home, if need be and I want to be able to access these files from the shop, which might be blocks away. Any suggestions? Is this possible?

That or I could just be saving to my flash drive and carry both the machine files and the ART files with me.

[kivimagi]

http://www.cantenna.com/

I've been exploring this option.

[benchmark]

Jay

How about an email account at each location, then as soon as you design and create your Art files just email them to the workshop....it also means you have a backup at another location.

Paul

[andyb]

Jay,
I would look at using FTP (File Transfer Protocol). You can download FTP server software for free from the internet. As long as both locations have a broadband connect to the internet it will be quick. You can use the software to sync the folders on both PCs.

There are our options but they would cost more than you may want to spend. Wireless is not one.

Ryan,
I support a wireless network on my 9 to 5 job. Our building is 2 1/2 acres. I have 7 antennes that have a 360 degree radius that is stronger than the standard home/office wireless router to cover the area. Each antenne cost several hundred dollars. For Jay to be able to get a signal several blocks away will require a very strong signal. I looked on the Cantenna website and do not see any mention of distance. I may be missing it. I would be surprised if you would send or receive a decent signal 75-100 yards away. Unless you are in site of both locations that you are trying to connect to, I wouldn't waste my money. Two building that are close together it may be useful.

Andy B.

[stickman]

Andy,

The Cantenna is a Line Of Sight (LOS). That might not be possible at the location I am looking at. Unless the cell tower that is near it would allow me to place it up there. That is in my line of sight. LOL

I was hoping to get away from having two DSL accounts, with the phone company and we are too small of a community for G3 wireless.

Thanks for your help.

[mikejohn]

Flash drive seems both simple, straightforward and inexpensive to me.
................Mike

[ron brown]

One might consider something similar to a "gmail" account. The files would be stored on Google's server and be at one's computer anywhere connected to the internet.

Ron

[stickman]

Mike,

That is the direction I am bending.. Using my flash drive, good thing it comes with a lanyard.. so that it can become a part of my anatomy.

Jay

[mikejohn]

Believe it or not, my old laptop which runs the ShopBot will not take a flash drive, the CD's gone bust, so I'm transfering by floppy!!
20 floppys today for a days work (which didn't happen because my router died
)
Guess what I want for Christmas?
(For those who said Kylie Minogue,you're close)
............Mike

[gerald_d]

.....a spindle to replace your router?
.....a PC to replace the laptop (the dust blows out easier)?

[dvanr]

An alternative to wireless or running another network cable.

Homeplug networking , Transmits and receives over the power line, works great on the same phase, and through CCT breakers.

The computers are optically isolated from the power line and the connection is transparent to the router. You do have to set the two up encrypted if your concerned with network safety.

Currently using a NetComm device and it works great.