Simple vacuum jig(s)....

[billp]

Here is my offering for the holiday season; I've figured out a way to get vacuum capabilities without all of the plumbing..To save all of us the ordeal of reading a lengthy description I have added some pix on my web page-http://www.baycraftdesigns.com/Shopbot.html
Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday season..

[flyboy]

Nice site!! And thanks for sharing the info on the vacuum table.

[jkforney]

Bill
You rascal. You're too smart. Have a Merry Christmas. See you in Vegas.


John Forney

[mayo@difsupply.com]

Screen printers who use vacuum tables regularly do this:

After aligning the piece to be printed with the silkscreen, they simply use paper or cardboard over the excess vacuum areas.

You can accomplish the same thing on your set up using posterboard or vinyl flooring cut offs or pieces of sheet metal, or anything flat and non-porous. Something like those rubber backed floor mats in offices might work pretty good also, and be easily rolled up when not in use.

Any modules you make from wood also pose a storage issue, not to mention the time to build them.

As far as making the set up adjustable, provided your air channels are parallel and right angled to the tool travel, all ya really need is some half inch or 3/4 inch (whatever the width of the air channels is) plywood strips that fit within those channels and extend just high enough upwards to butt your sign blank against. These would align your sign blank or other material.

Whattya think?

[billp]

I have tried similar steps, but there is always real air leakage at the points the wood and 'screens'meet. It could be that the kind of vacuum I'm pulling will not tolerate these leaks ( sort of a high volume/high airflow?).In fact there have been times I've been cutting out full sheets of planks, and one small slit in the outer veneer of the ply will be enough to let the entire sheet lose it's vacuum and start "lifting" on me.
I think it Is the most straight forward solution though. I am thinking about making some sort of "channel end caps"which might be sleds of "plugs" that enter some/all of the existing vacuum slots on my table. Then I could try to slide the sleds right up to/under the edge of the piece being cut and have a better chance of blocking that edge air flow. if this works any better I'l let you know..

[mechtron@iafrica.com]

I have not installed any form of vacuum hold down system on my PRT96 yet, but have been considering the most economical and "flexible" way of achieving this. Maybe my approach is a little too simple at the moment and you are invited to shoot me down before I go too far!

1. Generally, our workpieces are fairly rigid, more than 10mm (3/8”) thick, and so they need only to be carried on bigger than 100mm (4”) spacing to maintain their flatness.
2. The maximum cutting force of the Shopbot is remembered at around 80 pounds, so, if we have the cutting area enclosed within at least 2 (or 3) clamp points, each clamp point needs to hold no more than a 80 pound horizontal force.
3. The horizontal force resistance depends on the vertical clamp force and the coefficient of friction between the surfaces. For smooth surfaces, rubber gives one of the best coefficients of friction onto wood – the coefficient being about 1.0 – which means that you have to apply a vertical force of 80 pounds to resist a horizontal force of 80 pounds. Smooth plastics have a very much lower coefficient of friction – much less than 0.5.
4. A perfect vacuum creates 14 lbs/sq.inch., therefore we only need about 6 sq.inches to hold 80 pounds. According to all the above waffle, a 3 inch diameter rubber suction cup will hold 80 pounds, either horizontally or vertically, if all the air is expelled and it has a dry mating surface. I think we can all accept this from our own experiences. In addition, we know that plastic is not as good as rubber for a suction cup, and any air leakage is disastrous.
5. Why not have the ShopBot table full of suction cups . . . . . ? Well, if they work correctly, we would not be able to get the job off the table afterwards! But we do not expect them to work okay because of air leakage caused by dust, and porous/rough surfaces. However, we all expect to have vacuum pumps to compensate for the leakage, but we cannot achieve the perfect 14 pound/sq.inch vacuum economically.
6. There are two parameters which determine the performance (also cost and size) of a vacuum pump: a. The vacuum (negative pressure) achievable and, b: The rate of air removal (volume flow per minute). If we expect many air leaks, it is probably more economical to go for a high volume, low vacuum system like a ShopVac. On the other hand, with low leakage, we can go to the low volume, high vacuum systems like the vane and liquid-ring pumps.
7. My intention is to experiment with “O-rings” ie. Suction cups where I can compensate for air leakage with a vacuum pump. I simply intend to lay normal O-rings of about 4-8 inch ring diameter, with about ¼” rubber diameter, over vacuum points in my plain smooth table and then take it from there.


232

8. O-rings are expensive, but I am also thinking of plain rubber strips, sponge rubber strips, surgical latex tubing, . . . . . . . . .
9. The rings or strips need not be circular. . . . . . . .
10. If the workpiece sags too much, then distance pieces (supports) must be put down inside the o-ring. These can be solid, or small chunks of old o-rings . . . . . . . .
11. The tooling can hit an o-ring with no damage to the tool, but the job will probably release off the table! (Same as with any other vacuum system where the tool breaks the vacuum)
12. The table surface can stay smooth (and sealed) without a channel system. Unused vacuum points can have bath-plugs fitted . . . . . . . .

As I said in the beginning, this is all speculation on my side. But I was hoping that someone had already tried this, or was willing to try it with their existing vacuum systems, and would give us some feedback. Even speculative feedback, from the armchair critics, is welcome. I want to avoid having to make up vacuum masks for every job and I think that bits of rubber are a lot more “flexible” (in more ways than one)

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

I like your idea, its the best I have seen yet
the only change I would make is to 1/8 in. rubber rings, I have seen oring kits that have long lengths of black rubber in various sizes with a
cutter and glue to make your own rings, It looks like you have thought this out well.
Danhamm

[davidallen]

you might look at round weather stripping instead of o-rings. you can cut the ends square then tape them with vinyl tape to seal the joint. if you need an odd shape, you could 'tack' it down with hot melt glue.

depending on the thickness of the piece being cut, you'll want support blocks scattered every 2 to 6 inches. simple strips, like square trim, should work well.

da

[mechtron@iafrica.com]

Alternatively, for those who enjoy routing channels, why not combine “O-rings” with your grooved board approach?


233

Dan: Thinner rubber 0-rings are relatively hard and may not have enough “give” to fill the grain of rougher materials. The fancy kits (with cutter & glue) are normally intended for zero leakage at 3000 psi plus – we will probably get away with overlapped ends and a wad of chewing gum!

David: “Weatherstrip” is a reasonably foreign concept in this part of the world – we do everything possible to get the air to move through our buildings! We do get some rectangular foam strips here with one sticky edge, but these are meant for dust (open-cell) and are not easily reusable for different layouts. If you have a round, closed-cell, foam strip without any sticky edges, this sounds ideal.

Okay, so far we have 3 guys (myself included) who THINK that the “O-ring system” will work, but anybody out there with hands-on experience?. As I said, I don’t have any vacuum system hooked up yet, so maybe I should look in the broom cupboard for the wife’s “Hoover” and drag it to the garage for some serious experiments!

[davidallen]

woodworkers supply is now selling the parts to make vacuum hold-downs similar to the mini-mach vacuum clamp. of particular interest are the pressure actuated ball valves. they only pull vacuum when stock presses them down, if a small part is cut out, they close and stop air flow in order to maintain vacuum on other parts.

da

[Robin]

David,

Does Woodworker's Supply have a website? I made a search for it with no success.

[info@woodworker.com]

not sure, the only contact info I found was:

Company Woodworker's Supply, Inc.
Phone 800 645-9292; 505 821-0574
Fax 505 821-7331; 800 853-9663
Email info@woodworker.com (mailto:info@woodworker.com)
Mail Woodworker's Supply, Inc.,
1108 North Glenn Road,
Casper, WY 82601 USA

but I've found another product that may work better.

West Oaks Woodworking (www.wow-woodworking.com) is
selling a vacuum 'puck' system that looks very interesting. I saw it demo'd at the woodworking show in Jersey and got the intro system. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, when I do, I'll post the results.

da

[billp]

I was also at the Woodworking Show in New Jersey today, and stopped at the West Oaks booth. I had spoken with them about their system last year, and they followed up that conversation by sending sample kits to Shopbot's headquarters.They said they have been waiting for feedback.... I'm hoping someone will give this system a real test, because even though it is more expensive the our home made rigs, it is much more versatile, and it had very good holding power when it was demonstrated at the show.
Another option exhibited was the Carter "Mini Mach" vacuum hold down jig. If you get any woodworking magazines you have probably seen it before, but it is pretty impressive in person. the basic unit is 24 x 13 inches, but they claim you can expand the range of the tool by using 'spacers'to hold up the edges of larger pieces while the unit holds it in place at the center. their web site is-http://www.carterproducts.com the price on this unit is 99 bucks, and for many people it would probably be a good answer.West Oaks has the advantage of being adapable to just about any shape, while the Mini Mach is ready to go right out of the box. So it looks as though we are finally being given some choices...

[Gerald D]

The Mini Mach can be seen at:http://www.northwestpowertools.com/vac/0100.htm

By the way, the loose "O-ring" concept mentioned 6 January also works fine.

[srwtlc]

Hi,

Has anyone ever tried a vacuum clamping system dedicated for smaller project or a production run over and over that consists of a venturi valve/compressor setup like the one featured in ShopNotes issue #40 and at Woodhavens site.
http://www.woodhaven.com/framesets/onlinef.html
Just a thought I've had for quite some time and now that I have a Shopbot I've thought about it some more because of some of the things I do.

[davdallen]

the West Oaks system uses a similar setup. the biggest problem that I see is that they're low volume systems. any leakage from porous wood or cuts into the clamping area may diminish the clamping strength. one reason I like the West system is that they use multiple 'pucks' with self-closing valves. if the vacuum on one puck is comprimised, the valve closes and the others are maintained. you could make something similar with the ball valves from Woodworkers Supply.

da

[jkforney]

I just purchased a Vac-u-clamp system from Wests Oak Woodworking. I am so impressed with it I am getting info on being a dealer.

I seems that I will be able to raise parts to do edge routing. The issue of air leakage may not be a problem for us since we use hardwoods. I bought the large rectangle system with the straight edge (cheaper than buying it without) and will be able to place the "pucks" anywhere on the 96 straight edge or screw each of them where I need to. I will have them up and running tomorrow and will give a report on them.
You can see the different systems at http://www.wow-woodworking.com/vac-u-clamp_index.htm


John Forney

[dan@burningimpressions.ca]

John, how did your vac-u-clamp system work out?
Are you having so much "fun" that your not going
to share, with us..I personally am very curious.

[jkforney]

Dan
Just cut a 36 x 36 solid surface table top with 2 inch radius edges. Put it on my vac hold downs from West Oak. Made 3 passes and a final pass .05 in at .75 inches per second. Held great. No movement at all. I have a large number of jams to cut (we are 7 kitchens behind) and will let you know how it works for plywood.

I made 10 hickory corbels and cut them with the hold downs also. They needed two hold downs per piece, one flexed. Since I got the screw down type I can put them anywhere and so far I like them.

One note: I dropped the vacuum thingy (don't know what they call it) and the plastic fitting into the muffler broke. I have replaced it with a brass nipple. They should fix that.

More as I use them.


John

[Howard Andersen]

Does anyone know how an old milking machine vacuum pump would be for vacuum tables?? Maybe it would have a good combo of degree of vacuum vs. volume??

[jrconca@innernet.net]

Have just finished making my vacuum table based upon design concepts I have gleamed over the years as well as on these forums. It works extremely well. Although since I've been racking my brain as well as precious time working out the problems I've been having with my steppers over-stepping that I haven't had the time to experiment. Anyway, my setup consists of running a file that drilled/routed 45 1/2" hole through my first 1-1/8" particle board subtop. Then we ran the same file using a 3/8" bit cutting 45 holes through my second 1-1/8" subtop. From the under side of the table we pressed 3/8" poly tubing (the kind used for refridgerator water line)into the 3/8" holes previously routed, we then trimmed the excess protrusion with a chisel and coated top with a sealant (lac sealer). Clear silicone helps seal the tubing in place although just like the second subtop, I don't think the silicone was really so necessary as the tubing was a bugger to push through. These tubes were to be tied into a copper manifolds via barbed poly "T" fittings. That was until I realized we needed somehting like 45 "T's" at $1.49 ea, not to mention that 45 was more that both local Lowes and one Home Depot had in stock. So instead, I bought 1 piece of 3/4" x 6" x 6" plexiglas, cut it into 4 pcs 3" X 3". In three pieces we drilled two sides with 10 3/8" holes and connected them with one 3/8" hole. The fourth piece of plexiglas has a total of 16 3/8" holes in it (5 holes in 3 sides plus one connector hole)! To put that many holes into such a small space took some figuring but, it worked. So, next we tied all 45 3/8" poly tubes into the (4) plexiglas manifolds and those manifolds were in turn tied into four copper nipples on the main 1/2" copper manifold. On the copper manifold I sweated four shutoff valves (this is so I can have any combination of hold-downs working. We connected the end of the copper manifold to a rotary vien vacuum pump via a 3/8" poly tube. I've been TRYING to make 45-55 4" melamine disks that will have closed cell tape around the preimeters of both sides, but the aformentioned Bot problems are causing me such grief. Anyway, the few disks I do have completed work quite well. With the pumps on you absolutely cannot pick up one up however you can slightly slide it, hmmm, me thinks its the foam sliding.
At only 7sq. inches and pulling 15 in of mercury thats what, only 70lbs holding force? But a rectangle measuring 6" X 14" is both impossible to lift or slide. I too, plan on experimenting with various other forms of sealants.
I personally like Gerald's great idea of soft surgical tubing, am definitly gonna try that. However if my experience with using fom tape is any indication, then just overlapping the surgical tubing should work, and yes possibly bubble gum or tape.
The neatest part of my concept is that I am going to make a file that has the exact placement of all 45 of my 4" disks, i'll svae it as a .sbp file and by running it in preview mode, it will appear on my computer screen then I'll simply run the file I'm gonna cut also in preview mode and Volia, the former file of the "disks" will still be there and I will know which disks to place where...half disks will go where there are close calls. BTW I have pics of my system. E-mail me at jrconca@innernet.net (mailto:jrconca@innernet.net)}
JRC

[benchmark@tesco.net]

After many hours of R & D for a vacuum table that works, I have come up with the following design.

It is easy to build and use, has automatic vacuum bed table sizing, minimum amount of parts and low in cost apart from the vacuum pump.

The base is a sheet (8 x 4) of 3/4” MDF screwed to the shopbot base frame, a suitable hole is cut in this for your vacuum attachment. Then screw a perimeter frame of 1” x 11/2” PAR softwood and cross bearers on 12” centres, these are 2” short of the outside frame.

Seal all the inside of the sheet and framework and the back of a sheet (8 x 4) of 3/4” MDF and let dry.

These wood spacers are then machined with our shopbot file (skim ) which will level and flatten the table.

We then attach the sheet of 3/4” MDF sealed side down to the softwood with a few screws , turn on your vacuum pump or shopvac to hold the sheet onto the softwood frame, and then run Shopbot file (Fix1) which will machine a series of holes with a 1/2” cutter 1/2” deep, through the bottom of these holes you screw the top sheet to the framework , then remove the few screws you fixed the sheet with. These 1/2” holes can be later used as holes for short pieces of 1/2” dowel as location pegs.

Then run Shopbot file (Pod32) this will machine a series of 32 pods into the top sheet, the run Shopbot file (VLV32) which will machine a series of 32 stepped recesses to take the valves we have made

Insert the 32 valves and your vacuum pump and away you go

The principle is that you can operate any number of valves from 1 to 32 just by placing your material over the valves which then operate the vacuum automatically for each pod.

If you are not machining all the way through the material working directly on the table is OK , but not recommended as accidentally hitting a valve will damage it and the cutter, also damage to the top sheet will need to be repaired or replace the whole sheet (a long process).

This is the easy bit. Place a sacrificial sheet of 1/8” MDF the same size as your material or slightly larger (to the next sized area of pods) over the valves, place your material on this and turn on your vacuum the holding power even with a shopvac is immense and seems to work better than directly on the bed .

For larger parts I machine slightly into the sacrificial sheet and cut out completely, for smaller parts I use a tab function and a few blobs of hot melt

The cost of the 1/8” is minimal and is charged out the job, I always use one even when not machining through the material. I keep my sacrificial sheet for regular jobs and use it over and over again.


I am awaiting delivery of my side channel vacuum pump but the results with a 1100W vacuum are excellent

The number of pods is not fixed as they can be suited to your application, but I found that 32 covers each square foot of the sheet and will work in most situations.

If any one is interested in the valves let me know as the more I can sell the cheaper they will cost

What more can I say

It Sucks

Paul

[Gerald D]

Paul, are you telling us that the 1/8" MDF is porous enough to act as an air diffuser? If this is the case, then we have a whole new heap of possibilities.

For example, why have valves at all? Why not just have a big sacrificial sheet and cover the unused areas with Kling wrap?

[Gerald D]

Paul also see message from Mayo Pardo above on December 27th. I think your method is okay for relatively large parts. For small parts you will probably need something more "rubbery" with less air resistance.

[paul]

Gerald

Yes it is, I was amazed myself

The principle is to concentrate the vacuum to the area you are working on, to cover any area with Kling wrap or any other material is just another job to do and will create more leakages. The Idea is to keep it simple, slide the material and sacrificial sheet on the bed switch on the vacuum and away you go. Besides Kling wrap does not like dust.


Cutting small parts from small pieces of material will always be a problem even with a large vacuum pump on a universal vacuum bed.

Cutting small parts from large pieces of material is not a problem providing you use sensible cutting speeds or tabbing.

[alton]

Instead of kling wrap, I use two peices of shower
liner material that I purchased at Home Depot.
The material is about 1/16" thick and is like
rubber. Comes on a 36" roll cut to your length.
Handy for me, since my table is 36 x 48.
I'll overlap one peice over the other one.

Alton

[alton]

Sorry couldn't get the image to upload.

Alton

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

I was at a glass shop on thursday and watched them
pack a large plate glass with handels attached to the plate glass, I new what they were using and
a light came on,I asked where I could get a couple
they said they had some that were not dependable
and they gave them to me..I have a little 1/25 hp.
vacuum pump,and have removed the over center
vacuum thingy and put tapped it for a fitting,
Now with a little metal work for a base..check out your glass shops fellas..

[jccwrks@aol.com]

All this talk about spoilboards and vacuum pumps is getting rather complicated. I build at least 50 acrylic and foam signs a week using a 1" thick sheet of gatorfoam as a spoilboard. I simply clamp acrylic sheets to the edge of the table with 5 or 6 spring clamps and cut. No vacuum, no problem. I'll use the same spoilboard for at least 50 different patterns, then flip it over and use the other side. It's clean, easy to handle, and provides absolutely no resistance to a bit that may protrude through the cutting material. A quick touch on a nearby 12" disk sander removes any trace of an entry/exit mark on the acrylic. I've learned that if I need to cut smaller, more articulate lettering, I can slow the cut speed enough to melt the gatorfoam spoilboard to the protective paper backer sheet on the acrylic. After cutting, I lift the letters off the table with a putty knife. Again, no vacuum, no problem. Of course the spoilboard needs to be replaced a little more often when you fuse acrylic backer to it, but it's still a reliable and simple way to hold down intricate acrylic components. And after listening to my router and dust collector humming all day, the last thing I need to hear is a screaming vacuum pump.

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

If you are in to small box or jewel box or heart shaped item making, and want to round over and
pocket and cut out then round over the bottom
you can't use clamps, it has to be elevated,
and it has to be very secure.A good vacuum is sure nice in this situation...

[dturner]

To those of interest .you can call standard router in dallas tx.And they have close cell foam
gasket to make your o-rings.take hot melt glue and glue the ends together.route a 1/4" groove in your spoil board take the gasket place it in the groove you will have a good fit and the gasket will stay in place.

[gerald_d]

For the record, some vacuum jigs also mentioned here (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/2/1641.html?1056153532#POST9645).

[norm]

A previous message in this thread mentioned the vacuum clamping kit from Woodworkers Supply. Does anyone know of a source for the individual pressure actuated ball valves like in the kit? Thanks for your help.

[toys]

Norm, I've been looking for some time and the only thing I've found was from Anver. It is not a ball though and it requires very thick vacuum jig, I think over an inch and a half.

[norm]

David, Thanks for the response. I guess I'll just get one of the kits from Woodworkers and keep searching. If anyone finds a source, please post it for us. Thanks again

[norm]

This is a site with a picture of the Mini-Mach vacuum clamp:

http://www.m-powertools.com/products/u-mach-kit/u-mach-kit.htm

I'm looking for a source for just the valves used to control the vacuum for each individual cell. Thanks for any help

[phil@m-powertools.com]

Hi Guys -
The ball valve components you are looking for are manufactured and available from M-Powertools Ltd.
Our North American stockist for this item and the other vacuum hold down products is Eagle America.
They recently became our full product range stockist and will have the items by the second week in Aug 03'.
I hope this helps.

[norm]

Phil, Thanks for the information. I'll contact them in August.

[shimpj@bellsouth.net]

Does anyone have the MINI-MACH on their router table? How about the 4 x 8 version? Does it work well? is it effective?I have a large Ridged Shop Vac. with a 4 x 4 version of the shopbot vac. vacumn table (removable from router table when not needed). Thanks - Roy in Fla.

[dirk]

Gerald,
What did you come up with for your vacuum table?
from some of the pics you had posted, it looked like you were using just several round vacuum holes in your table. Are you routing any channels? or using any gasket?

[gerald_d]

We only have 8 holes through the table (bath-plug size) to suck warped boards down flat. We don't use the vacuum force to resist the cutting forces - we use clamps and screws for that.

My conclusion was that, if we wanted a truly universal vacuum clamping table, we would need to go to 10 horsepower plus on the pump, and even then there would still be some jobs that need to be screwed or clamped. Or we could use smaller pumps with fancy channels and gaskets and try to run a clinic-clean shop, chasing leaks for much of the time.

So we stuck with screws/clamps, and concentrated on techniques for using very few screws/clamps. The key is to plan exactly where the cuts start and finish. Here is an example of an 8'x4' board to be cut into more than 200 parts, the smallest parts being 4"x1.25". There are only 3 clamps on the left edge. No tabs are used. The cutter is 1/4" and the parts are nested to within 5/16" of each other:


234

I cannot imagine a universal vacuum system of under 15-20 horsepower that will do this job.

[elcruisr]

I would tackle your sheet of parts on my table with our 15 hp vacuum blower. I do take a different tack on production flow, though. I tab my sheets together for more reasons than just parts hold down. As soon as the cut is done I pull the whole sheet off as a unit, clean the table and start the next sheet. While it's cutting we flip the parts sheet and trim out the parts with a laminate trimmer. In my market I'm competing with some "big iron" and I've learned that to stay competitive the machine needs to stay busy cutting, not waiting for us to pull parts! Working this way we will run 30 to 50 sheets of nested parts a day.

We have a 5' x 12' table with six zones. Our spoil boards are usually LDF. We do run occasional jobs with jigs that will be screwed or clamped in place.

Different ships, different long splices....

Eric

[ron brown]

Well said Eric...

There are many different approaches to a similar problem. The choices involve the bit, the machine, the size of the workforce, the hold-down system available, the need for accuracy, the abilaties of the file program - and programmer and the intelligence of the operator/owner.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is "Pallet Loading". This is where the parts are loaded on a jig and the jig is changed. While the second jig is being cut, the first is being unloaded/reloaded.

There is no one way or better way IMO. Each shop and operator will have a method they believe is superior to another.

Ron

[gerald_d]

Eric, we start the bot in the top right corner and work our way progressively down to the bottom left 0,0. The operator's job is to stack the cut pieces, and clear the table while the bot is working, so there is very little to do once the bot gets to the end of the sheet. Plus, the job is ready for despatch without further processing. Remember that a ship's crew over here is cheap, and our bot is not as turbo-charged as yours, so there are are various factors why we do things like this. Plus maybe that full nested sheets are a smaller part of our business, and our power supply won't handle a 15 hp motor......

Edited to say that I was typing while Ron was posting, plus the phone rang, etc. In agreement with everything said.

Eric, how do you insert tabs so that one part is tabbed to the next? And how do you get your tabs strong enough to survive turning the board over?

[elcruisr]

Gerald, we run Artcam Insignia for CAD/CAM. In it you can position tabbing at will and control tab length / height and either ramped or square sholdered. Very handy for sheets with combinations of part sizes especially. Also allows straight or curved lead ins and lead outs combined with ramped entries to extend bearing life.

We would typically use tabs between one and two inches long and .022" thick. If there are lots of small parts like your sheet we also slide our sheet onto the outfeed table which has a 4 x 8 of cardboard on it. Place another sheet on top and flip it. We've had lots of practice and the guys have really got it down!

Eric

[gerald_d]

Ron, a variation on the "pallet loading" is to have a double-length table, enough for 2 sheets end-to-end. The machine runs on the one side while the other side is being unloaded/loaded. One of my steel suppliers has 6 flame profile cutters (oxy-fuel steel cutting) with 75 feet long x-rails - the gantries move continuously, while a lot of cooling/handling/clearing happens at the same time on the remainder of the "tables".

[mrdovey]

Norm...

You can use cabinet ball catches. See the photos at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/assembly.html and the tenth photo from the top at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html

Morris

[jumbaugh]

Does any one know if West Oak's vac-u-clamp is still available. Phone number no longer valid and can't bring up their old web page. In lieu of that, any one have any suggestions about an alternative??

[jkforney]

Jim you rascal
Give me a call.

John Forney
419 947-8186

[fleinbach]

Try this:

http://vac-u-clamp.com/

[Brady Watson]

Jim,
Here's the old site with contact info on it. You may be able to call or write them:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030811215752/wow-woodworking.com/vac-u-clamp_index.htm

Aside from that I think there are a few setups out that will essentially do the same thing. Morris has a nice little setup on his site (link listed in his post above)

Hope that helps,
-Brady

[jumbaugh]

Problem solved! Thanks John, Frank and Brady

JimUmbaugh