3ds to G-Code or better yet, SB

[webbhead]

Hi all... What's the simplest way to carve up my 3DS meshes? I'm trying to determine what additonal software I'm going to need when I get my Bot. This seems to be a bit of a trivial question in this section I've noticed. Using 3ds MAX to generate .3ds files, but it will also output .DXF & .STL. Which format works best & what is the preferred translation software? Price? Also, what is the problem with "lack of smoothing" when translating from G-code to SB? - John

[bjwat@comcast.net]

I use Mill Wizard to do 3D stuff and covert it to ShopBot G-code. You can take a 3DS, DXF or STL and 'massage' it a bit by slicing it along an axis and scaling it, but you can't really modify/carve/smooth the shape. You'll have to do that before you output it to 3DS, DXF or STL.

The main highlight of Mill Wizard is letting you do the tool pathing and the ability to make it machinable by cutting a 3DS in half.

For $250, it's a pretty good deal. I am not sure what is next in price besides Insignia for $3500 and ArtCAM for $7500 with increased editing features.

Anybody know if you can use BobCAD for 3D toolpathing?

-Brady

[johnandrhondawebb@netzero.net]

Yes, I was planning to "slab" or "cross section" my models along the z axis (or whatever axis is most appropriate) in MAX- to the depth of the material. This would be done before bringing the file(s) into the CAM program. Any word on TurboCADCAM yet? I noticed some posts, but it didn't sound like anyone was using it for production... just a few demo reviews, & one post mentioned it was too complex. Any other reviews out there?

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

I would check out VisualMill and RAMS also.

Vector, if one can get past the learning curve will do this also. VisualMill and RAMS import "Rhino", 3dm directly.

One can also 'slice' a model with planes and use a variety of progrrams to to take whatever line one has into a multitude of programs and convert them to .sbp files.

Ron

[shuttle]

trueSpace is what I use for modifying models and laying out and nesting. It inputs many formats, and has good modeling tools. www.caligari.com
I also use 3D Explorer, but mostly for conversion of models www.righthemisphere.com

[johnandrhondawebb@netzero.net]

Thanx again guys for your insights.

Which milling program will save the most cutting time? I've gathered that MillWizard can only do "raster" tool paths, not contour paths, and does not have 4th axis capabilities.

I assume that 4th axis control means that you can do angled cuttting such that the deepest part of a pocket can be larger than the mouth... kinda like an inverted lip. Is this right? What about 5th axis control? What does this mean?

If 4th axis control & contour pathing are requirements, where's the most bang for the buck?
VisualMill looks the most appealing thus far. ModelMill & ArtCAM seem hard to cost justify.

Any VisualMill users out there with successfull/ unsuccessful stories of their 3D projects? - John

[bjwat@comcast.net]

John,
I assume you are talking about 4th and 5th axis toolpathing for a ShopBot machine, right?

Generally 4th axis machining refers to a rotary table in conjunction with a 3 axis CNC. The Indexer accessory is essentially a 4th axis or all intensive purposes. 5 axis machining is a 3 axis machine where the cutting head/spindle articulates and allows angled milling. I hear that there is a 5 axis ShopBot in R&D at the moment, but if you think that $7500 is a lot for ArtCAM...then wait until you see how much 5 axis software costs...Prepare to take out a 2nd mortgage. I think at the moment the cheapest 5 axis toolpathing software is $15,000-$25,000...that's just for toolpathing. 5 axis toolpathing is incredibly complex to do and that is the main thing that keeps an affordable 5 axis machine out of reach at the moment. Maybe SB will work out a deal with DelCam to get cheap 5 axis software...Who knows.

In the meantime, use what you have. Get a PICZA scanner from Roland and play a bit with that or at least get the 3D probe from SB. With a PICZA and Millwizard, you can do a LOT of stuff before you need ArtCAM. You can go a long way with some patience and ingenuity. You will find as I did, that 3D stuff is a PITA a lot of times & it's hard to make money just doing the 3D stuff because it takes so much time. But that's just my opinion.

Hope that helps...
-Brady

[johnandrhondawebb@netzero.net]

Thanks Brady,

Sounds like the 4th & 5th axis stuff is way down the road. The 3D stuff would be more for building moulds or prototyping from which moulds would be made. Actual objects would come from casting various materials in these moulds (my friend has an art glass shop with a very intense furnace).

For production of finished product, the SB would only be used for 2-2.5D sign making,... & perhaps some small & simple, add-on 3d elements.

Indeed, the 3D stuff would be down the road. I'd need to get that Bot to pay for itself first. With MAX, the design phase would not be the challenge... it would be in the tool pathing & output.

VisualMill will do everything ModelMill will do (not sure about ArtCAM) & for considerably less, according to Bob Campbell (used to be a ModelMill dealer). All things considered with a grain of salt...

Check out http://www.campbelldesigns.com/.

[Roger Christensen (Unregistered Guest)]

I've programmed a 3DS Max->G-code script and can output variable resolution tool pathing, it's working well for me, using a 3axis milling machine, although I've only tested it on a small mill(MaxNC-10.. oh well, it was a start). I'm thinking about purchasing a ShopBot PRTalpha 96, and would like to continue using 3DS Max as my design/modeling program and path writing software, are there any special requirements needed for the output code, is there a list of accepted commands somewhere, do you have to use the Shopbot control program to control the machine?

[Brady Watson]

Roger,
If you already can convert 3DS/Max to G-code, then you can use the SB's built-in G-code to SBP converter to convert your toolpaths to run on the SB. You have to use the SB control software to control the machine.

I'd like to try your 3DS to G-code converter out if you'd like to e-mail it to me.

Thanks!
-Brady

[Roger Christensen (Unregistered Guest)]

Brady,

Thanks for the info, first off the program I wrote exports G-Code directly out of 3DS Max, (it's not something that converts .3ds files), so 3DS Max 5.0+ is required. I did download the SB control program and doing some conversion testing in the simulate mode, the SB software is a little sticky, but I have managed to get what appears to be valid converts from the G-Code to SB in simulate mode. Do you use 3DS Max?, what model SB you have?

Roger

[Brady Watson]

No Roger I unfortunately don't have Max. I often machine 3DS files using MillWizard. It costs $250 and can mill a 3DS, DXF or STL 3D file. Most of the time I use Rhino to create 3D files and to edit 3DS files to my liking. I have a 5X16 PRT with a Colombo spindle. Hopefully I will upgrade to Alpha specs soon...

-Brady

[Roger Christensen (Unregistered Guest)]

Brady, 5X16 PRT? is that like 5' x 16'? I'm kinda at home in 3DS Max, been using it for about 10 years. I've evaluated a lot of 3D programs, Rhino is a real nice, solid program. I've spent the good part of a day trying to come to grips with SB's windows control program, I've created some simple contours G-Code and SB's converter just doesn't convert them correctly, I've loaded the G-Code into several other programs and it loads and looks just fine, I can't imagine what the problem is, although I have to question the integrity of the software, personally, at first sight I think it's terrible, but obviously some people must be having success with it, or just tougher/smarter than I am. SB's look like a pretty solid machine for the buck, but the crashy/flaky software and non-standard control code has turned me off. Did you use a router before the Colombo spindle? You know, some people wouldn't know what a Monza is, interesting sight!

Roger

[Brady Watson]

Yes, Roger...5' X 16' machinable area
I guess I didn't want to outgorw a PRT96!

I bought my machine with the Colombo new from SB. After I got laid off from my day job, my very 1st paying job was milling hard maple. The job was referred to me because another botter couldn't do it with the PC. So, I'm glad that I made the investment!

Yes, I too am not exactly thrilled with the Windows version of the software and still use the original DOS control software. It never crashed on me ever. The Windows control software allows for the use of the mucho faster Alpha steppers, whereas the DOS version does not. I'm sure that as time goes on and improvements are made, that the Windows software will lose it's clunkiness and gain some stability. I just look at it as growing pains...There are a lot of bases that SB needs to cover to make the leap from a PRT to Alpha. The SB hardware is excellent. It's cheap to maintain and modify if you want to customize.

-Brady

[tope@qtm.net]

Has anyone started using the VS3D software from Designs Computed? I am doin a lot of 3D carving on my SB and need to come up with an affordable modeling prog. From what I gather Rhino isn't very good at letting you change shape of a model.
The VS3D looks like it may do a good job and is somewhat affordable.

[daniel_carr]

VS3D can generate ShopBot files from DXF or STL - no "slicing" required.

Here is a tutorial showing how to carve the Eiffel Tower in relief, starting with a DXF file:
http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/examples/model_relief.html