RhinoCAM

[rustnrot]

The Rhino3D with RhinoCAM package for $1000 looks like a good buy. Comments?

[stevem]

RhinoCAM is a plugin for VisualMill ($4000). RhinoCAM will not generate tool paths, but Rhino and VM are a great combination.

[rustnrot]

I am very new at this, but I thought I read it right it generates tool paths from Rhino3D. It was just released last week, Dec. 14, 2004. www.rhinocam.com (http://www.rhinocam.com)

[stevem]

I stand corrected. This is the first time I've read about RhinoCAM as a toolpath generator. I've been using Rihno and VM for two years and really like the software. RhinoCAM looks to be a real bargain for what it can do and ease of use.

[rustnrot]

I'll probably buy the combo very soon as I have been considering Rhino3D for awhile!

[normand]

http://www.mecsoft.com/cgi/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=203 &forum=Support here are more info. rhinocam is visualmill basic and rhino in one

[normand]

and for you Steve I think that it would cost $125for the plugin since you have rhino and vm

[jemelby]

Help me to understand

I am a non-SB owner. I understand that there is proprietary control stoftware that actually runs to SB. Correct?

So this combo of Rhino and VisualMill... It generates a tool path for the SB control program to read?

Has anyone actuall tried this combo? Other than VisualMill?

After reading the promo material on the web site, this sounds an awful lot like the "holy grail" of CAM/CAD. Is this as close as it gets to a "wood printer?"

Thanks for any input.

[dingwall]

James, what you are asking is if there is a post-processor to output Shopbot code.

I'm curious too. What's involved in outputing Shopbot code?

[rustnrot]

Acording to the Visual Mill site, Visual Mill will output a .sbp file (shopbot file). I would hope that RhinoCam, a derivative of visual mill, would do the same but I will call them to verify. On second thought, I will load the trail software and report.

[stevem]

James,

I have been using the Rhino/VisualMill combo for 2 years.

The process works like this:

The part is designed in Rhino. The part file is exported to VM to generate tool paths. The VM tool path file is exported to the SB control software. The SB control tells the machine how to move.

The post processor is a program inside VM that adapts the tool path code to a particular machine control. In the case of ShopBot, the post processor would output SBP files.

Both Rhino and VM are very easy to learn and use. My understanding is that RhinoCAM will allow you to design your part and generate tool paths without having to export the part file out of Rhino. RhinoCAM looks like it has most of the features that you would need to get good use out of a CNC router.

[jemelby]

Yes Yes Yes...

That's exactly one of the things I want to know. Thanks Sheldon.

Is there a post processor for SB included.

Another question has to do with spaceballs. I've been to some other sources of discussion on SB in general, and rhinoCAM in particular. One point of discontent that crops up is lack of "spaceball" support. When I first read this, I thought "great! what the heck are 'spaceballs' and why is everyone so put out about lack of support?" So I figured out what spaceballs were, and they look a might spiffy! Does anyone else here use "spaceballs?" I can see where one might get a bit particilar about them, once they started using them.

I don't want to derail the original topic, but I'd like to hear some more about these.

p.s. spaceballs are multi-dimentional input devices with a big ball on them

[don_ask]

I was ready to purchase the Rhino3D with RhinoCAM package and thought about the quality of the user manuals. Has anybody purchased the combo package at $999.00. I don't use my ShopBot very often and find that I need a good manual. The VectorCam manual(s) damn near had me sell everything. If the manual is good for learning and a quick reference, I think I will purchase. I have been using turbocad and PartWizard.

[srwtlc]

Has anyone tried the demo of RhinoCam? I can't try it with a demo of Rhino 3.0. It sound/looks like a good deal, but I'd like to know what it's capable of. Can it v-carve designs and letters like ArtCam Pro/Insignia?

[joel_schuman]

It's not that great a deal, and it doesn't make sense. I've used Rhino and VM (full, not basic) for two years, and to effectively realize Rhino models in wood or foam with a Shopbot you NEED THE ADVANCED 3-AXIS milling functionality. Unless the upgrade path from RhinoCAM to full VM makes the total less than buying Rhino and full VM separately, RhinoCAM won't keep you happy long term.

Printed documentation for both Rhino and VM is the same as the programs' help files. Rhino's is decent. VM isn't as good, but I found it easy enough to master by trial and error.

If all you've used is Part Wizard, VM could be an eye-opener. Even for 2D work VM gives you more options and is simpler/faster. More control = better results.

TurboCAD and VM is also a slam dunk. I use TCAD for 2D and I've seen my design/toolpathing times shrink since I put them together.

I don't think RhinoCAM and ArtCAM are directly comparable because they are best used for different things. You can use Rhino to do v-carves and signage, but if time spent on a project matters to you, get ArtCAM for signage and Rhino for everything else.

[don_ask]

Thanks Joel. I will do some more home work and see what the diference in cost is for the full VM plus Rino.

[normand]

last summer I bought Visual mill basic for 1000$us.If I had wait a bit longer I would have got Rhino include for the same price. Wait no this deal is for american only. Rhino alone sale for $895 Artcam ? $5000 Visual mill full $4000. Some swear by Rhino And millwizzard deal, wich has less options and is more expensive.It was good then, now this is better, but for how long. For $1000 I would not expect a $5000 deal of course.If I found a need for "advance 3-axis milling" I would pay the $3000 upgrade to full vm.Vcarving and postprocessing is easely done with vm basic.There is a lot of software between millwiz and artcam pro.

[don_ask]

The tech at RhinoCam helped with my Homework. The difference between RhinoCam and VM full when talking about 3 axis machining.

I quote: "RhinoCAM 1.0's 3 axis has the same functionality as VisualMill Basic. VisualMill Basic includes 3 3-axis methods as compared to 14 different methods of finishing in the full product. VM Basic is sufficient if you are not so much concerned about optimizing for machining time or having detailed control on your machining. However, if you need exact control on your toolpaths VM full is the way to go."

Because ShopBot is a hobby and I have lots of time, I may not need the full $4000 version plus the cost of Rino!

[joel_schuman]

I use my ShopBot professionally, but for me the reduced machining times are just gravy. The real benefit of VM full is CONTROL. I do sculpture and furniture. Some of the exotic woods I use are difficult to machine - the additional 3-axis methods often make the difference between salable product and expensive firewood.

[tim_howe]

Today I called MecSoft and asked a lot of questions about RhinoCAM. Here are my
notes from the conversation with a very helpful and knowledgeable representative
. I'd post her name here but I don't like to post people's names without asking
them first.

how long the $999 RhinoCAM 1.0 sale?
till Jan 31 till 5 pm phone or fax from RhinoCAM.com
is it returnable?
one month returnable starting from receipt of box
RhinoCAM 1.0 is VisualMill (VM) 5.0 Basic CAM Engine + Rhino 3.0
Basic has "some 3d"
just horizontal roughing, and paral or horiz finishing toolpath
parallel does multiple parallel passes, varying z
horizontal moves horizontal to benchtop, constant z
with those you can cut anything, though Pro is more efficient
-> talk to tech for more info on Advanced Machining
has tool definition, which understands shape of cutter
has simulation mode, which shows the machined virtual block
Pro includes advanced 3-axis, plus 4th axis, and 5th axis indexed
Pro includes user-defined cutting tools, though Basic allows .csv de
finitions
Basic is $1000
Pro is $4000, not integrated with Rhino yet
if you buy RhinoCAM, you can run VM Basic inside Rhino or outside Rhino
MecSoft offers special prices only at product-release time
upgrade privilege?
no charge for tech supp or service packs
once a year -- major release, it was $500 from VM 4.0 Pro to 5.0, $350 f
or Basic
the $999 special gives full upgrade privileges with Rhino and MecSoft
for Rhino-side upgrade prices, talk with Rhino
we're "very good" at bug fixes
"we've not had custs stuck with a bug and had to upgrade only for bugfix
produces .sbp?
yes, also Roland, Fanuc, Fidel, Haas, etc.
the demo version does not show the buttons for choosing .sbp
how to install the demo?
"The demo file is all you need. The plugin was from before".
the demo file is RhinoCAM1.0DemoInstall.exe

[daniel_carr]

Another option is VS3D (currently $975).
VS3D has many of the PRO features (user-defined 3D cutter shapes, full cutting simulation, .sbp file output, etc.). VS3D also compares favorably to ArtCam PRO. And VS3D has elaborate Virtual Sculpting tools not found in other software.

For 3-D "V-bit" carving and signage, I think VS3D is the best all-around tool. But I'm biased, of course, since I wrote VS3D.

http://www.DesignsComputed.com/vs3d

[rustnrot]

I am still considering the Rhino3D RhinoCam deal. Presently I have no CAD experience, I have been programming the shopbot using the shopbot language. Since "misery" loves company who else is seriously considering taking this plunge (pun intended) that may be a novice like myself.

[kgomez1@lsu.edu]

I own a shopbot alpha 96,however, I have never done any 3d work with it. Is there an easy way to learn how to generate 3d toolpaths? Also what would be the easiest program to try to learn on? I have downloaded a trial version of millwizard, but it is a puzzle to me. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[daniel_carr]

Karlo,

I think VS3D is fairly easy to learn. It has a whole different approach than other CAD/CAM programs. You can also get a free 30-day trial, or just try it out in "demo" mode.

There are several VS3D self-guided tutorials for learning how to use it. Here is the general tutorial (also available from the VS3D "Help" menu):
http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/docs/tour/index.html

Here is a tutorial on embossing and carving a digital image:
http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/examples/img_emboss.html

And this tutotial shows a couple ways to design & carve a logo with text:
http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/examples/text_carve.html

And lastly, here is a tutorial showing how to carve a relief model of the Eiffel Tower:
http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/examples/model_relief.html

[normand]

Rhinocam pro special deal http://www.rhinocam.com/Store/Store.shtml warning for adult no friendly wizzard inside

[hespj]

What's all this "Available only in USA and Canada" nonsense? I don't quite follow the logic of this. Either they want to sell it or they don't, why does my location (UK) alter the price? I enquired about upgrading, but upgrading would cost the $2000 you can buy it outright for in the States. Result - one lost upgrade sale, and lost PR credebility.

[normand]

what can I say?

[chris_booth]

There seem to be 2 main reasons for selling at difference prices in different countries. The first is related to the overheads of dealing with a place with different laws, rules and regulations from those you already know in your home country - just paying people to tell you if you can sell using your standard practices and if not what you should modify can be expensive. The second is language. When a software dealer wants to offer their software in a foreign language, they may pay a distributor to translate everything - the software, the user guide, the tutorials, the advertising - and that's on an ongoing basis. The distributor needs to be paid for this.

I can't say I really agree with it - but I don't think its easy to get around! Sorry John - if its any consolation I have to pay higher prices than our American friends as well!

[bleeth]

John: You should see what my wife has to pay for Wine Gums over here. For a couple of so called "allies" the prices we each pay for many of our cousins goods has no logic.

Dave

[dingwall]

VS3D looks pretty interesting. I think I'll take it for a spin.

[normand]

Hi Sheldon I also think that Daniel's VS3D is pretty interesting and he is having a special deal now http://www.designscomputed.com/vs3d/pricing/index.html
John I know how you feel but since they include canada this time around I am in a bad position to complain. The goal here is not to compare software or advertise for them but to notify shopbotters of a substantial saving opportunity