V Carve Router Bits

[joecrumley]

One of the most exciting areas for my company is the Shopbot armed with a V Carve bit and a true carving program. We carved V's most of last week as I watched customers and employee's stand around the Shopbot, slack jawed and mesmerized at the process, most of whom are slowely gooing deeeef.

Where's the right Bit?

When doing a very thick and thin letter such a decorative "Old English" or using a 45 degree cutter,the depth of the cut will go from skimming the surface, to plunging down as deep as 1" or more on 4" letters. The same 12" letter would require a flatter bit. So, we found a series of bits that go from 45, 60,90,120, and 150 degrees.

These cutters also have a special taper on the point that carves exact valleys. Check out Gerber Scientific. Onsrud, Bosch, and others leave a flat spot.

We use the Rams program to write the G codes because, it is soooo fast and windows friendly.
Cheep too.

One word of advice for you new SIGN guys. Too narrow body stroke on V carved letters makes for poor visibility. I have hand carved and gilded, gold leaf V letters for years to be dissapointed when the sign was erected to see how deceptively thin the stroke and how poor the visibility. Rember these letters have very little weight. The rule for me is to double the thickness on all V letters when possible.

Let me know if I can help.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe

[chuck_p]

Hi Joe,
Have you used Vecotor to create any V-tip projects? I would like to do more work with a V-tip but I'm not sure V-carv is the way to go. Another $400-$500 expense. Any suggestions on other software? I've breifely looked at Rams. I had to change a video setting to make it work on my system and as a result wasn't to keen on it.

Are you doing both incised and prismatic lettering? I think those are the terms for innie's and outie's - sunken or rasied V-tip lettering. Aside from the large variations in Z, does Rams work well? You might be able to set your Z up from from final depth to rough cut the part then reset Z to the final depth and run the program again.

Chuck

[gerald_d]

We use VCarvz. Our experience is that it is okay, but puts in too many surplus moves. A simple round "full-stop" should be only one plunge of the tool, but we find that VCarvz would do about 6 plunges, each from the safe height. Every edge is cut at least twice.

So, if we have to make repeated files, we often delete most of the extra steps manually. Our guess is that VCarvz was optimised for guys working in inches, while we work in millimeters. Maybe the inch guys don't have the same problems as us.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Gerald

I've never tried VCarvz, so please pardon my input if I'm way off.

I see that problem from time to time in Vector. It is usually two arcs that have either a very slight gap or a very slight overrun. Manually filleting or trimming them cures the problem.

[srwtlc]

Gerald,

I've tried the demo of VCarvz and would agree with you that it indeed does put in many extra moves. I work in inches, so that doesn't matter. One thing that does help is to play around with the filter factor, but it doesn't completely take care of the problem. I've tried the demo twice now, once on my shop computer and once on my laptop, and both times I got to work with it for a couple of hours and then got too busy to get back to it and the 30 days expired. Can't say I'd buy it for $400+ yet.

[joecrumley]

Dear Chuck,

Yes I did try Vector and was not up to the trouble. I'm not too computer literate, although I've been designing with the thing for almost 20 years, I do not understand programing or much any thing except how to get the design done and sold. Vector was too threatning for me.

Do we do both incised and the reverse,beveled raised letters? Yes. The big difference is like this. You must hatch out the letter first with a strait fluted bit. Now you insert the V bit and do the angles from there. This is a much more fineky process because you do not want to take very much off. Let me give you an example. Take a 6 in letter that has a body stroke of 3/4". Your bit should kiss the center line but not go deeper than 1/4" on the sides. Now if it has serifs that will be your test. Will it just take enoug off of those? When I do these by hand, the serifs get a light nudge with 120 grit sandpaper. That is all it takes. Really though the only reason to do chanfered letters is when you are doing 23k Gold. It's so suttle otherwise that it is hardly worth the trouble.

Your trouble with Rams is minor and a call to David the owner will solve the problem. Rams is a G code writing progam that doesn't mess around. It will process a skelaton v carve so fast it make my head hurt.

I'm sorry for my legnth description but seems necessary to me.

[joecrumley]

Dear Sheldon and Scott,

I was stunned when Alan, my part time assistant, programmed our shopbot for the first time to do V Carv letters. The tool path was co simple. We stood by to see the maching quickly route a couple of rather complex letters. Both of us just stood there looking at the router in disbelief. We couldn't believe it. So the lights above our heads went on. This is so simple and good looking. Compared to making most any other sign, this is a real time saver.

Perhaps other programs such as Enroute, or Flexisigns Scanvec will do a good job as well.

Last week I visited a couple of sign company's who have high priced CNC routers. Their V Carve was not really correct. The corners of the serifs were not sharp. So I say all this to say, be carefull about the claims made by software programs.

[joecrumley]

LOOKING FOR BIG V BITS

Do any of you Shopboters have a source for V bits wider than 2.5"?

I have looked through my catalogues in vein.

We have two signs in shop that will need large channels in the center of the letters. For years we hand carve them. I have a feeling we will be doing it again.

Perhaps someone knows of a company who will make some from HS steel. I have found that V bits shed heat better than better most other bit. I think it's the wings.

[pnielsen]

Joe

Have you looked at : http://www.magnate.net , they will also do custom bits....

Paul

[chuck_p]

Hi Joe,
http://www.amanatool.com/cat2000/CAT2000HTM/cat80.htm
This company has several tools. I seen V-bits up to 2 inches - not what you wanted but another place to call. I know they make custom tools also.

Question, what type of spindle are you using? One place I worked we cut MDF using and Anderson and CMS routers. They have 17hp motors. We cut with custom diamond tools up to about 4.5" in diameter. And I tell you what - those cutters pulled some amps. I say all that to say if you are using a 3.25 hp Porter cable router as a spindle you might have to make a few passes in order to cut with a cutter that large.

Chuck

[marcos]

Help me please,
I just got a job running a SB3 but i have a big problem when a cut circles whith the MOVE command the circles came out almost square out of shape , i have tried many different things but nothing happend the circles i am making are 3" diameter ,, so what do i do plese help me out thanks .