A survey: What percentage of your time is spent with what software for SB-related work?

[gerald_d]

Reckon it will be interesting to find out what software other SB'ers are using. In our case we would be lost without the following 5 programs (and keep off-site backups of these).

Our estimate of time spent per program is as follows:

AutoCad LT 2000 - 80%
Vector v8 - 12%
VCarvz - 6%
Shobot v2.2 - 1.5%
TurboCad 2D v6.5 - 0.5%

You may well ask why TurboCad features in the list while we have AutoCad? Well, Turbocad is not so fussy in opening DXF files so we use it only to convert "unreadable" files into a DXF that AutoCad will always read.

The dominance of AutoCad LT is purely because it is a package that we were very familiar with before the SB arrived.

Would other SB'ers please tell us how much, of what, you are using?

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Turbocad 98%
Autocad 1%
Vector 0%
VCarvz 0%
Coreldraw 1%


Turbocad is just to simple to use for an 2d, and coreldraw is only used for the clipart.

Ron V

[bill.young]

Gerald,

Good question, though I'm not sure I really want to look this hard at my work habits and where I spend my time :^).

My software usage tends to vary with the type of work that I'm doing, but here's my best guess ..

TurboCAD 4.1 - 85%
Notepad Plus - 5%
Vector 9 - 5%
Misc (Rhino, Turbocad 7.1,...) - 5%


Bill

[gerald_d]

Ron & Bill, thanks for the replies so far (hope we get more).

Maybe a clear message?: By far most of the time is spent using a CAD program! The "newbies" must realise that they have to understand CAD before they can understand CAM. Get the CAD right and the rest is easy.

Could more SB'ers tell us how they spend their time on software please?

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

AutoCAD LT 97 80%
Vector 8 15%
Stlwork 2 2%
Rhino 1%

[danburk]

Paint Shop Pro (Edit Raster) 15%
Wintopo (Raster to Vector) 2%
TurboCad (Clean up Vector) 70%
Vector (CAM files) 10%
Shopbot (Edit SBP files) 3%

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Bill Did you say at 1 time that Turbocad 4 will do more then 1 offset at a time if more then 1 is selected? if so I need to install 4 again.

Ron V

[bill.young]

Ron,

With Version 4.1, the free upgrade for 4, you can select all the entities that you want to offset, but you have to click on one side or the other of each one individually to do it's offset. It's still much easier than the "select one at a time" way you have to do it with newer versions.

Vector is much easier still; just use the SHIFT-SELECT feature to select the whole chain, and then offset the whole thing in one shot.

Bill

[jorgy.tucson@worldnet.att.net]

Gerald,

This follows your observation about understanding CAD to understand CAM.

Design CAD 3D, for its layering and other functions, will occasionally output dxf for conversion. 40%

BobCAD, complete design and cutting of panels using its autocut CAM feature, output g-code. 35%

SB for straight forward simple cuts. 25%

John Jorgensen

[gwb]

G Cadd 6.1.5 - 85%
Vector 9 - 10%
Shopbot & Word (edit) 4%
Misc (conversions) 1%

[jim_melton]

ProfileLab 3D 80%
Vector .5%
Word Pad 9.5%
Vinyl Express LXI Master 10%

[watswood]

Vector 9 80%
Word Pad 10%
Turbocad 7 10%

[dmdraper]

Vector 9 - 65%
AutoCad LT '98 - 15%
CorelDraw 9 - 10%
ShopBot - 7% (I make small files called by one master file to handle pauses for bit changes)
NotePad - 3%

[annetts@mb.sympatico.ca]

Mastercam 100%. Education setting so the price was greatly discounted. Unbelievable program!

[ldgin@pacbell.net]

Rhino - 70% (3D design & deconstruct into cut files)
DesignCad - 15% (quick 2D )
Rams - 15% ( quick shopbot cut files )

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Windows OS
CorelDraw 60%
Signlab 3%
Autocad 5%
SB 2%
------------
Linux OS
Coreldraw 25%
Dos Box 5%
RTM 5%

[shuttle]

I have been concentrating on getting images/ graphics into my 'Bot
Photoshop to knock colors down, sharpen lines 5%
CorelTrace to export .eps files 5%
trueSpace to clean up and export as DXF 10%
3D Explorer to clean up the DXF files further 5%
Vector 9 75%

[gerald_d]

We see a couple of new "faces" on the Forum, can we have some more guys telling us what software they use with their ShopBots?

[Curt Bartel]

I have done alot of small redwood signs and for this I use:
Corel (50%) - draw the design I want
Vector 9 (47%) - mainly for the cam portion
assorted clipart(3%) - for clipart not available in Corel

I also have been making an assortment of restoration parts to match old parts on existing houses and new parts for new homes(e.g. spindles, overhang brackets, snack bar brackets, repetitive stuff....) for this I use:

Vector 9 (95%) for cad and cam
shopbot software (5%) master file calls up subfiles when doing repetitive work.

[beacon14]

95% of all layouts/drawings done originally in DesignCad (it's what I was very familiar with before my ShopBot came along). Of these, 50% go to Shopbot via the dxf converter, 45% go to EnRoute for a tool path, 5% go to Casmate for lettering or something else I can't do easily in DesignCad, then to EnRoute for toolpath.
The other 5% (mostly the drawings which I get from clients) start in Casmate, then go to EnRoute for, you guessed it, the toolpath.

[garbob]

I use Corel Draw 9 for all of my sign and other design layout.

The 3D cam package that I have been using for the past year is from Rams Software. I just got the new upgrade to v1.5 Enterprise edition (thanks Santa). With the newest features it is even better than before, hard to believe.

By the way, I was just talking to David Ford at Rams software and he is offering a full 90 day free trial of the complete Enterprise Edition with the purchase of the $49.95 training CD. You must phone directly for this unadvertised special. With the training cd and the full 3d package for a full 90 days, you will be amazed at what this thing can do, easily and at a reasonable price.

[gerald_d]

It's been 4 months since this thread has been added to. Any more volunteers to tell us what percentage of your time is spent with what software for SB-related work?

[tonyb]

I use Vector 90%
TurboCad 10%

[alano]

Vector 9 - 80%
TurboCAD 7 - 5%
SB commands - 15%

[debekker]

Repairing or reloading Windows ME 95% After that....
Signlab/Engravelab 60%
ArtCam 4 25%
3DS Max(makes stl files and 3d dxf)10%
Trying to learn Mastercam 2%
Vector and accesories 2%
Edgecam 1%

[Jeffrey Brown]

VectorWorks (used to be MiniCad) for 2d drawing - 40%
ModelMill for toolpaths and 3d-58%
Shopbot-2%

[studebaker]

Autocad 14 for precision DXF.....30%
Corel Draw 8 for Artistic DXF......30%
PhotoPaint 8 for Raster editing..05%
Vinyl Master Pro for Misc DXF.....05%
3D Studio Max for 3D DXF.........05%
Vector 9.3 for DXF conversion....15%
Shopbot software.....................10%

[studebaker]

Bill, I do think upgrading to Vector 9.3 is a worthwhile use of $150.00, but I use it in a very limited way. Since the GUI was not upgraded with the new version (I had hoped they would, because the "old" one was not very intuitive) I still use it as an interpreter / path generator between my other software which I use to generate the DXF files and the shopbot software. If you want to upgrade Vector because you need a better tool to design with, don't bother.

I, as well as Dan Hammerstrom, recommend using CorelDraw 8,9,or 10 to create your designs... There is A LOT of training and support groups with this software that you can ALWAYS find an answer to any of questions about using CorelDraw software. And It's easy to use! You can find new copies of CorelDraw 8 or 9 on Ebay for about $35.00.

[david@thecarpentershelper.com]

Vector 0%turbocad 10 % Inspire Pro 75% Flexy Pro 15%

[kaaboom_99]

Vector -10%
Shopbot -10%
CorelDRaw ver 8 -80%

[gerald_d]

This thread has been dead for nearly one year, and quite a lot has happened on the software front since: ShopBot co-developed Part Wizard and has stopped shipping Vector. TurboCad launched a CAM product, etc.

Who uses what software these days? Anything changed? What are the new ShopBotters using?

From our side, it is still roughly the same:
AutoCad LT 2000 - 85%
Vector v9.4 - 10%
VCarvz - 5%

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Rhino 2 - 88%
Vector 8 - 10%
Manual programing - 2%

Ron

[mikejohn]

Again, slightly off topic,but........
what percentage of overall file making is done before you touch the computer?

[gerald_d]

Before touching the dusty old computer loaded with SB software? 100%. The whole .sbp file is produced on non-SB software in our case.

[ssmith@skeeball.com]

I’m looking for a better way but:

95% of my files are created and offset in AutoCAD, DXF converted in SB software, and cleaned up with Word Pad.
5% are drawn and dimensioned in AutoCAD and manually written in Word Pad (The cleanest files I have done).
.001% in part wizard. Any arc or circle makes the SBP program pages long and impossible to edit.
0% in vector. I would love to try it but my bot was purchased after ShopBot quit including it with the machine.

Scott Smith
P.S. Been a botter for 7 months. Love it!

[fitz943]

Scott, I have Vector that I don't use. Why don't we swap software if you don't use Part Wizard?

Just kidding, unless you really want to!

[ssmith@skeeball.com]

I just found out that if you change the machine output to ShopBot(arcs)(inch)(*.sbp) Part Wizard will make the part file with CG code rather than point to point M2 codes for circles. I may have to give Part Wizard a 2nd chance.
Scott

[valensign]

Signlab %40
Artcam Pro 40%
Rhino 20%

[beacon14]

In spite of all the less than enthusiastic posts about PartWizard, I have found it to be invaluable. I do all of my design work (not just the ShopBot parts, but all of my shop drawings) in DesignCad, from there it is simple to grab the part(s) I need into a new file, edit out what I don't need to cut, arrange onto a 4x8 (or whatever size) sheet, then export as a .dxf into PartWizard. PartWizard does a fine job offsetting, pocketing, drilling, etc. and outputs the .sbp file. A little (emphasize little) hand editing to insert output switches to turn router on/off, and it's ready to cut.
The key for me is that I don't try to do any drawing or editing in PartWizard, it's much faster and more accurate in DesignCad even if it means re-exporting a corrected/modified file. I am mostly doing 2D and 2 1/2D pattern cutting.

So, to sum up, not including the 95% of the DesignCad work I draw which doesn't need to be cut on the 'Bot:

DesignCad - create parts: 94%
Part Wizard - create toolpath: 5%
ShopBot - tweaking/previewing: 1%

[bjw]

TurboCAD v7.1 Pro = 80% - For Design, Layout(nesting), Toolpath & Conversion to DXF
Note Pad & Word Pad = 10% - Editing & Adding instructions and commennts
SB Software = 10% - Converting to SB Code & Editing
Part Wizard = 3% - Quick Prototypes
Manual Programing = 2%

[shimpj@bellsouth.net]

Signlab - design 10%
Profilelab - 80% create sign

[rookie432]

Until recently 60% Vector
30% PartWizard
Then I cracked open the Vinyl Master Pro software I bought a little over a year ago and went through the tutorials( awesome live teaching tutorials on the software). Took about five hours total to learn how to do everything. I don't do much in vinyl signs, but for carved signs and any other layout work I have found it to be Awesome.
Best raster to vector converter I have used and I have Flexi6.5. The program allows me to do full color layouts. Exports a stable dxf file to both partwizard and vector. I can quote projects right from the software. E-mail my customer a viewing module that allows them to look at several layouts in one module without printing it and giving my layouts to the competition.
When designs are done I just export to partwizard or vector and set cut paths and depths. I've been jammin ever since I started using it. Totally stoked!
And the price was great for the power and capability.
Oh and it incorporates two great nesting capabilities that allows me to optimize my sheet goods on parts.
Forgive my jubilation but I have bought high dollar software and used Corel for years and nothing has been and equivalent bridge between design and milling softwares than this for my purposes.
I still think Vector is great for cad design and Partwizard great to set milling paths so I use all three.
Ummmmmmmmmmm...... what was this post about again?
Oh
50% Vinyl Master Pro
20% Vector
30% Partwizard

Bill

[ron_cleaver]

Bill,

Can you compare Vinyl Master to Corel and Vector for design work? Are the included fonts suitable to wood sign making (i.e., stroke fonts)?

[papadaveinwy]

Bill, I use a vinyl design package called VE Lxi Master, in it I can do cut paths, if you look in your edit or tools or effects pulldowns you will see a choice called something like path or direction, mine give the choice of either automatic or reverse, I use this for 100% of design for signs, and then save as dxf then fill in sheet from shpbot dxf converter.

99% VE Lxi (vinyl software)
1% shopbot converter


Ron, The included fonts in any vinyl package are great for signage and you can import any additional fonts from any package. David in Wyoming

[gerald_d]

Can the "vinyl" packages do an offset toolpath to allow for the cutter diameter (as opposed to a knife running on the outline)?

[rookie432]

Ron,

Forgive me but our terminoligy may be different and considering I'm still learning with my signmaking, I'm not sure what you mean by "stroke fonts"
As far as comparison I have been an avid Corel fan for years for it's ease of use. This is always my primary concern before investing in a piece of software. I belive Corel is up to version 10 now and I can't comment on the current features because I'm using an older version. However Vinyl Master has all the great features of Corel (ie: outlines /inlines color renderings drawing tools etc) The difference I see is a very powerful welding module and that drawings in VMP are looked at by the software as something that is going to be machined ultimately. Like Partwizard, VMP "see's" the seperation of oulines and inlines as you would "see" them for machining purposes (ie: pocketing, cutouts etc.) Also altering a drawing or scanned image is superb. No offense to partwizard but the node editing tools are extraordinary, where I have found Partwizard's to be rather lacking in freeform design capabilities. Custom logo's or drawings can be designed in half the time if you are so inclined to do these things.
I may be a little biased towards Vector because I went to the training. But if I am going to design a part or a piece of furnature I like the very literal design capabilities of Vector. I'm sure that some of the other cad programs discussed here are of equivalent qualities and capabilities. Vector doesn't have the nice touchy feely pictures that some of the other programs have but it is a solid piece of cad software that outputs to my Bot. I have succesfully designed some nice pieces in Vector and if I need to alter a design to meet more exacting measurements this is where I will use Vector.
As for signmaking. I have decided that VMP is the only way to go for me. Included fonts as well as any fonts I have currently don't seem to be a problem thus far not to mention the welding capability of script fonts. The program Auto Kerns all fonts and with the click of your mouse instantly welds scripts.
Finally the VMP people are far from paranoid about their product. They will send you the full working program with all live tutorials for FREE. Yes that's right FREE. You can print your designs just not export to a plotter or as a different file. If you like it just give 'em a call and they will give you a registration # over the phone.
The one drawback thus far! Haven't had much success importing DXF files yet. Discussed this with tech support( excellent by the way) and they advised me that a module may be available for this. They were also willing to send me out a few demo copies to bring to the Jamboree if anyone was interested.
Sorry for the long winded answer but you had a big question


Bill
P.s. I just really like the program. The folks at VMP aren't paying me to tell you this.

[rookie432]

looks like I got a couple of other questions while telling my life story above. HAHA

Dave,Gerald,
I haven't tried the cut direction editing yet. Usually I will just export the design to Partwizard or Vector then set my directions, paths, offsets, and depths etc. This is where milling software such as these shine anyway so I use their best features.
I understand the program you're using David is pretty good sign software. I have FlexiSign pro which is also extremely powerful software but the learning curve and price is up there too. For the $500 bucks you have invested in VMP I have all the features an bennies of the $4000 dollar and up sign software ad they are fairly ready for the milling functions.

Bill

[gerald_d]

Thanks Bill.

Can we try and steer this thread back to the percentage time issue now please?

[gerald_d]

David has kindly opened a new thread for the discusion on "vinyl" software over here (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/31/1459.html?1048647727).

[kfitzgerald@graphicmetalsinc.com]

OK, I'll add my .02:

Create original dxf: TurboCAD 7.1 Pro (awaiting arrival of 9.0 Pro any day)- 55%

Trace existing bitmaps (clipart, etc.)to create dxf (and do other stuff easier than in TCAD): Rhino 2.0- 30%

Create tool path: Part Wizard- 10%

ShopBot software- 1%

Misc.: AutoCAD LT 2002, HiJaak 5, WinTopo, Corel Trace, Mill Wizard, ATTCALC32, Notepad/Wordpad- 4%.

Regards,

Kevin Fitz-Gerald
Project Manager

Graphic Metals, Inc.
P.O. Box 31
715 East Perry Street
Bryan, OH 43506
Voice 419-636-5757
Fax 419-636-6404

kfitzgerald@graphicmetalsinc.com (mailto:kfitzgerald@graphicmetalsinc.com)

CNC laser cutting up to 14 ga steel
CNC routing wood and plastic

[CAPRONARTHUR@HOTMAIL.COM]

I am a sign maker, fermerly a hand letterer and pinstriper. For the past ten years totally caught up in the vinyl craze. I purchased a shop botover two years ago and have not used it.Seeking detailed training instruction in its use. Extremely interested in comments of Bill Jarvis.Would be delighted to obtain further insight and information from him.

[rookie432]

George,
Tried to e-mail you a couple of days ago but noticed you had hotmail so it may have gone to junk mail folder. Be happy to offer any insight that may help in acclimating shopbot into your business. feel free to e-mail me back.

Bill jarvis
Rookie432@aol.com (mailto:Rookie432@aol.com)
wbjarvis@hotmail.com (mailto:wbjarvis@hotmail.com)