Archive through February 19, 2000

[studio@renc.igs.net]

I was talking to a Bob Tyrell on the phone and he mentioned a quick release chuck for the Porter Cable routers. Does anyone know of these? He said there are 2 kinds, one being far better than the other.

Richard

[timwing]

Richard,
Woodcraft sells both of them Jacobs power chuck & Eliminator RC. I tried the Jacobs and did not like it. A friend has the Eliminator and has had good luck with it (Requires 0ne allen wrench).

www.woodcraft.com

Hope this helps,
Tim W.

[studio@renc.igs.net]

Anyone else tried either of these chucks?

RB

[dthorpe@gte.net]

we have the rc eliminator, not impressed caused too much vibration, too much metal spinning at 20k plus rpms. stick with the standard porter-cable collets, keep them clean and keep them tight.
den

[scottncs]

Ditto to Dennis' comments on the eliminator. I stopped using mine because of the vibration and noise.

[Ron B]

I called Jacobs today and inquired on the availability of the "Hand-tite" chuck for my Hitachi. After talking to four people in 'marketing', I was informed they had no plans on building one to fit the Hitachi router.

I did learn they build 1/2" collets for Porter Cable, DeWalt 626, Makita 3612 and the Bosch 1615, according to my scratching. I wouldn't take those model numbers as the gospel truth. The collets did come with a 1/4" adapter.

I guess when I buy my next router, I will have to check the retailers and see which ones will fit a Jacobs chuck.

Ron

[birdsofplay]

Since this thread is a bit old I decided to update it a "shade" ...

I just treated myself to the new Jacobs Quick Chuck with a push/pull snap action closure.
I have the Porter Cable 7518 ... ~$44 at Trendlines ( the chuck only )

It comes with a 1/4" collet adapter too.

Mine seems to run concentric and adds little or no vibration. Theres NO offset or keys to tighten.
Just he ring that pops out for loose and pops in for tight.
Of course we loose a little "height" or Z capability but it seems OK so far. However you still have to have access to do the open/close operation and a dust collector will still be in the way.

Happy New Year all

[bruce_clark]

Bob:

I have to second that recommendation except that
the 1/4" collet "adapter" is not worth a damn (at
least mine was not). My 1/4" adapter would pull
right out while cutting! Anyways, I replaced it
with a Porter Cable 1/4" to 1/2" adapter and it
works GREAT!

As for loosing Z capability, actually, I have the
exact opposite situation. Before, my router bits
would not reach the "sacrificial" board unless I
was using a LONG bit. Now, ALL my bits reach. So
for me, it has been a boon!

I highly recommend it. Now, if I could just
figure out how to work it into an auto tool
changer, that would be awesome!

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[saintjohnbosco@yahoo.com]

How easy does the bit drop out when you pull on the ring? Does it just fall out? Just wondering since I've had the same asperations of making an auto tool changer. It sure would be nice. :-)

[birdsofplay]

Well ... for the few times that I've had ocassion to use it, YES the 1/2" bit falls out.
Now the 1/4" adapter collet does not and is a little bit of a job to align when inserting it.

I spoz a 4th channel tool changer tray positioner would be a possiblity, eh ? :-)
Or
some unused table space that you could accurately position over. No 4th axis needed.
I'd expect that the Z axis has enough push/pull power to do the snap-action necessary to do the open/close.
I'll hafta test that out next :-)
Some kind of tool grabber could help pull bits out too. Like a hard urethane lined clamp
Certainly the 1/2" toolchange idea is doable ...

hmmm ? I'll have to think about this a bit and get back. You've piqued my interest, now also.

[bruce_clark]

Bob,

Actually, what I had in mind was fairly simple.
Something like a two prong "fork" that would
project out at a fixed location. This would be
a certain "height" above the work, so that there
would be plenty of space for the chuck to clear
with the current toolbit sticking out. The chuck
would then raise up between the fork causing the
bit to drop out. Then, depending on which toolbit
was selected (they would be in a certain fixed
location) the router/chuck would move overtop of
the new bit and plunge down. The nice thing about
this is as the chuck plunges down, it would also
self close. The only thing lacking is a way of
automatically turning off and back on the router
for this to be totally self automated.

If this description is unclear, maybe I can draw
something up and email it to you. Also, since
this is just a "fixed location" changer, it could
be implemented by a simple program added to a
regular shopbot file.

Anyways, this is just a thought. Anybody who gets
it working, PLEASE send me pictures of your setup!

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[edcoleman]

Bruce:

I don't know much about the mechanics of an automated tool changer, but as far as turning the router on and off to facilitate the change, that is simple. I've been using an X-10 controller to turn the router on and off. It is pretty simple, there is a unit that will accept the 0-5 volt output switch signal and in turn activate a 20 Amp receptacle. I plug the router into that receptacle and voila! you have automated the router.

Up till now I've been using this with output switch 4, to simply turn the router on when a project starts and turn it off when the file is done. It would be just as easy to add explicit output switch controls within the sbp file using another output line.

I don't have the part numbers in front of me right now but can post them if anyone is interested.

I got the parts at:

www.smarthome.com

cya

Ed Coleman

[birdsofplay]

OK , great ideas Bruce & Ed.
and of course the solid state relay or x10 delay is a must.

My consideration was that the forks would have to be positionable somehow, both up and down as well as out of the way, heres why ...

I have lots of different lengths of bits.

Lets say you already had a bit in,
next you move over to the tools changer,
put the bit in it's hole and want to letgo.
The fork would "have been" in the way while returning the bit. Next the lock ring has to be popped down. I wouldnt want to rely on the
bit simply falling into it's holder because it has to be fairly tightly held to be able to locate it for the next time you want to pick it up.
Think about the wobble of a ball end or a dove tail bit in a "simplistic" holder. It'd be hard
to pick it up again.

correspondingly, a fixed fork would have to out of the way while positioning to the next bit moving down on the bit for it's insertion and then the forks would have to move in and push up the locking ring.

I dunno but I may be making this too complicated
or too ambitious.

WEll it's almost Y2K ...

Oh my gosh !!! my SB is now doing everything in the 3rd quadrant ...
up is down, left is right, push is pull, + is - ...
and, and, and, the router is spinning backwards ahhhhhhhh !!!

See ya on the flip side :-)

Bob

Just kidding :-)

[birdsofplay]

OK I've done up my tool chager ideas in 3Dcad and rendered the view and put them up on my site for you inspection.
Yep it's a bit crude but the idea is sound IMHO.
take a peek at ...
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/bitchangi.jpg iso

http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/bitchangr.jpg right

http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/bitchangf.jpg front

http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/bitchangt.jpg top

The tool holder tray is held out by the purple spring.
You position over the bit, plunge down, then move back into the dowels. Next you Z up to lock the bit, then back out then up and away to the cut.

To put it back you position to the holder, plunge down, move back, Z down to release and then back out again to lift away from the bit.

All this is predicated on the bits Easily coming out of the chuck, however.

No extra electronics positioning mechanisms !!!
Just a lot of programming in SB language.

The views should be fairly self explainatory, however, this set up only is usefull for bits
of similar length and shank dia.

[birdsofplay]

Hold off on the tool changer idea :-(
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/jacob1.jpg

I just broke the damn thing trying to get it to RELEASE
a bit inserted with the 1/4" adapter.
It seemed to "snap in" a little hard and later it would NOT COME OUT !
I made a 3/4" oak fork to just fit on the collar and used it to attempt to release ...
Instead the thing came apart, popping apart where the thin edges mate !
That is all that keeps the lower plastic cup in place with the upper part.
A snap fit !!! ??? what the hell ???

I am also retracting my statement re the Z axis having enough power to do the on/off action.

Oh it still works but the nice finger pulling area is toast ! It appears the it also keeps dust outa the insides too.

I will be greeting the Jacobs engineering folks with an empassioned e-mail FER SURE !!!

Cripes almighty, $44 for what ???
I'm starting to appreciate the simplicity of the wrenches !

[saintjohnbosco@yahoo.com]

Hi Bob, When you get ahold of the engineer ask him for some ideas about using the chuck with the shopbot. I spoke with Ted Hall many moons ago, and he said the Jacobs Chuck manufacture was using the shopbot to test their new chucks. Maybe they have already made such a device.

[chandler@n-link.com]

Bob,
When you get some info from Jacobs, let me know what you learned. I also had the ring pop off of my chuck. I also had problems, when cutting hard material, of a 1/2" spiral cut bit pulling itself out of the chuck a little bit at a time. I wondered for a short time why my Z depth was changing. I put a dial indicator on the Z axis while it was cutting and found the axis was not moving, so I tracked it to the chuck. Took it off and found I like the Porter Cable collets much better now!

[bruce_clark]

Don,

The inside of my Jacob's chuck looked very rough
and did not look well finished. Now this could
have been caused by the 1/4" collet pulling out,
but this is something you might check.

I took a round honing stone and "honed" the inside
of my Jacob's chuck. After cleaning it out, I was
getting .014" closure difference when empty.

Now, this may not be hard cutting by my bit did
not pull out while cutting more of the 2Deer
file (basically 2 sheets of 1/2" CDX with a 1/2"
shank 3/8" 2 flute carbide cutter--Porter Cable
brand--taking full depth in one cut--~.550").
No problems and no movement.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[birdsofplay]

Well, guys ...
No word yet, however, I figure that they'll be a while getting back to me, first of the year and all.

From Bruce and Don's experiences I've kinda lost
most of my interest in continued use of the danged thing, let alone a tool changer.
Yep !!! I too am starting to appreciate the solid utility of those two wrench chucks. Somehow they just dont seem to be as hard to change anymore !
What a Black Eye for Jacobs , too bad.

I will relay any info from Jacobs ( if any ).

For now, unfortunately, the "Quest continues" , eh ?

[bruce_clark]

Bob,

My commends were not so much a negative as more of
a "something to check for". I am personally VERY
happy with mine! If mine broke right now, I would
buy another one.

As for Jacob's quality, does seem to be going
down hill. Some of their older chucks were
unbreakable (pratically) but some of their newer
stuff is of much poorer quality.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[studio@renc.igs.net]

Maybe this will help.

Using the 2 wrenches, when you have the one in your right hand on top, when you squeeze the two together, it tightens the chuck.

When you have the wrench in your right hand on the lower chuck, squeezing the two together loosens the chuck.

OK, lets review-

Right top tight
Right lower loosen

Again:

Righty tighty
Lower Loosen

This made my life a whole lot easier.

Richard Bouchard

[Benchmark@tesco.net]

Diary of a Virgin Shopboter

I am about to purchase my shopbot but have been an avid Forum reader for some time, there are two topics that I would like to contribute my thoughts on.

Tool changers & Quieter routers (See Quieter routers)

My thought for the future was to add a tool changer

I see the main problem is holding different size and shape cutters in a constant position. My theory was to have a large diameter collar on the shaft of the cutter , this would hold the cutter in the tool changer and present it at 90 degree to the chuck.

The other problem is alignment with the chuck over the cutter before loading this could be addressed by a bevel or point on the end of the cutter shaft to take up minor alignment

My plan was to use a rotary indexing head on the 4th channel to mount the tool holders.



The easiest way is to use the fancy Preske router with automatic cone chucks, Nice but very expensive !!! oh well back to plan A.

I hope this is of interest

Paul Amos

[hwcorian@gateway.net]

I have used and tested the Jacobs chuck. Ilove it. You have to be careful with the different manufacturers of bits because some of their tolerences vary. Some bits you can't get to snap in without using 2 hands and others snap in too easily and do come loose during operation. My work and testing for Jacobs was done with a Porter Cable router and cutting Corian (solid Surfacing material) Haven't put one on my new ShopBot yet but I intend to.