What kind of paint to use?

[tuck]

Greetings fellow shopbotters & sign makers,

I've got a job to cut, prime and paint (120) 10" x 20" x 3/4" MDO panels for a local sticky shop where they will apply vinyl graphics to one side. I have to prime both sides and the edges, then paint over all primer with gloss black paint. Normally I would use Behr exterior latex enamel for the black paint, but not in this case because (1.) Vinly doesn't like to stick well to latex for some reason and (2.) I have to stack all of these panels together for transport. Latex paint, even after drying for 24 hrs., will stick to itself like crazy glue if you stack panels together. Ask me how I know! :-0

Oil based alkyd paint would work but it takes forever to dry and I need to bang these things out fairly quickly if I'm gonna make good $$$ and I can only paint 18 panels at a time in my small shop. I thought about acrylic, but I've not used that before. In any case, Home Depot does not offer either the alkyd or the acrylic in a pure black gloss. It was too late this afternoon to drop by Sherwin Williams, so I thought I'd take a few minutes and ask the experts!

Hey, experts,...what say you? Thanks in advance.

[tuck]

Well, after further research, I think I've answered my own question:

http://www.alumapanel.com/view_product.cfm?step=1&lines_ID=74&name=BE021%20B lack

[steve4460]

Think automotive paint and primer . It drys fast .
just stinks a lot when sparying.
Bot on

[Gary Campbell]

Mark..
You might want to look into a 2 part automotive type urethane. You can get a couple coats on in a half hour and can stack them the next day.
Gary

[tuck]

Thanks Stephan and Gary, but I sho' nuff didn't price this job with automotive primer & paint in mind. ;-)

[jben007]

Hello, in the cabinet industry for MDF we use Sherwin Williams Kemvar primer surfacer followed by conversion varnish, dries pretty quick very hard stack in 24 hrs. Covers mdf in two coats sometime a second sealer coat on machined edges if I don't use glue sizing to seal them.I'm not sure if it comes in black though.This yields may yield a better finish than you require.Probably similar price to polyester urethanes in auto industry

[tuck]

Thanks James, but that still sounds too fancy for this job. Anyone ever use acrylic for a job like this? Raymond Chapman, are you there? :-)

[joe]

Howdy Mark,

If you have a paint dealer which handles PPG, they offer a DTM (Direct To Metal) water based latex black. It's a gloss which goes on just about anything and is very tough. Few people know of this product.

I'd spray it on to get a very smooth surface.

Raymond will tell you to use Porter Paint. It's in his blood. I hate to bother him with his advancing age.

[tuck]

Hahaha! Thanks Joe. At the risk of sounding like a complete novice, what is PPG?

Edit: Nevermind, I googled PPG DTM. This looks like awesome paint! Hopefully I'll have a dealer near me.

Man, you old guys are amazing! :-D

[joe]

Woops,

"Older guys"

[tuck]

You're 12 years older than me, Joe. That makes you an "old guy". LOL!

Picking up 2 gallons of the DTM paint tomorrow. Ever used it on HDU? I believe in quality but I also believe in the environment, my lungs, and easy clean up. That's why I prefer a water based paint if I have to spray and if I can help it.I'll use oil/enamel for a roll/brush-on, but I hate to spray that stuff.

Thanks again Joe, I appreciate it. Raymond must be on vacation? Down in Hawaii, no doubt.

[joe]

Good luck with this paint. It's different from any latex I've ever used. Get it on your hands and see how tough it can be. Be sure to wash out the spray gun soon after use. It's really tough stuff.

Ray's been busy lately shopping for bargain rocking chairs.

Good to have you back.

[benchmench]

Wax paper between the painted panels will allow you to stack them (in small quantities) without sticking.

[tuck]

Yeah, Dan, I know about the wax paper trick. Matter of fact, I just bought 3 rolls! I'll use that when I prime them with latex primer, but the top coat can't be latex because vinyl won't stick to it well.

[joe]

Mark,

Vinyl is our favorite top surface over latex. We haven't used oil paint in years as a background paint.

If a silky smooth latex surface is desired, which is seldom for us, some 400 wet/dry with a mist of water is the ticket.

[tuck]

Joe,

I don't do vinyl copy/graphics. I have some experience cutting it on an old Signmaker IV many years ago, but I never applied it, I just had to cut it (run the machine), weed it, put on the transfer tape and give it to the guys and gals out in the shop. This particular job that we are talking about required that I supply a sample to the sticky shop. I used Behr latex enamel, high gloss, for the sample because that's what I had. They complained that they had a hard time getting the vinyl to stick to the panel and I have read before (somewhere), that vinyl doesn't adhere well to latex paint. Not true? In any case, the DTM paint you turned me on to should be fine. I'll rather fight sharks with toothpicks than to spray an oil-based paint in my small shop.

[joewino]

Well, it seems like the deal is already done, but I thought I would at least show up to let y'all know that I'm still on the planet. I've been out of the studio for the past week working on a project for a high school about 120 miles from here.

So, how did your process work out? Like Joe said, Porter would have been my answer.

You didn't ask, but I will state my opinion anyway. It seems that you priced the job and then tried to figure out how to do it to fall within that price. Sometimes that will come back to bite you.

And just for information purposes....vinyl will stick to latex. We've been doing it for years. Just use high performance vinyl and top quality paint (like Porter) and there's no problem. Most of our finishes are satin. There might be a problem with flat latex and vinyl but I've never used that combination.

[tuck]

There you are, Raymond. The DTM paint worked out great and was only $10.00 more per gallon than what I would regularly buy, so 2 gallons cost me an xtra $20.00. I got $1,200.00 to do the job and they supplied the MDO. I'm tired of watching paint dry but I'll make good $$$!

Perhaps it was the "hi-gloss" in the latex I did a sample with that caused the sticky shop problems, I don't know, but alls well that ends well. :-)

[joe]

Mark,

The gloss latex is an even better substrate for vinyl that the flat.

I guessing but it could be the Vnyl shop has had a poor textured latex which caused them problems in the past. Anyway I'd encourage you to give vinyl a shot. Order it in and apply. As you know acrylic latex lasts much better and is user friendly even if you have a whole box of toothpicks.

[tuck]

One last note about this job: When the sticky shop first told me about it and asked for a price to cut, prime and paint the 3/4" MDO, I said; "Hey, this would be a PERFECT job for Polymetal! http://www.alumapanel.com/products.cfm?step=1&lines_ID=292 I can cut it faster and no painting necessary! It comes up to 6mm thick in black with a factory baked-on enamel finish and we can sure get this done faster as well as save your client some money for these small signs that get screwed to a metal step-stakes and stuck in front yards!"

Nope. They insisted on the painted MDO and now they are crying because their client is crying for them and I'm still painting the damn things!

Nobody listens to me.

[seana]

I'm sorry Mark, did you say something????


Sorry couldn't resist.


Sean

[tuck]

No,...I didn't say a damn thing! LOL!

[khaos]

Petit paint 1 part epoxy paint. this does not require primer. also layes out to a great gloss! virtually indestructable!! I use this on walking marine surfaces!

spray, brush, or roll.

Joe.