What software for these letters?

[stickman]

I found this lettering on the internet and I am interested to know if anyone else is doing this. If they are, would you clue me in, to what software you are using.


5609

[joe]

Jay,

I think you can use the new Vetric program that's made for V carving.

You could do as I have been doing. I use almost no stratedgy. Perhaps you could look at my post here "New Project" where I used a round over bit. You could use a V bit instead. The process is an offset of .25 with a V bit then change out to a .25 strait bit and run it at the same path. Your done.

You can do this at no extra expence

This will not give you the sharp inside corners. You'll have to sharpen them up with a Chisel.

J
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[paco]

If you look carefully, you'll note the inside corner sharpening...


5610

I have not yet found a software that do this in one glance. I only been able to do this "manually", that is, a combination of more than 2 toolpaths or more (that's only for the raised edge part of this) and a bunch of added vectors to the design (shape, letter)...

You can achieve this easily in PW (?!?!?), Insignia, VETRIC and many more IF you don't need the inside corner sharpened... maybe Intanglio can do something similar to this too?... still, not in only one step.

[donchapman]

I created this rendering in VCarve Wizard.
I offset outlined a Times Roman Bold M in my LetterArt9 signmaking program, imported it into VCarve Wizard, v-carved the outlined area with a 60degree v-bit, and removed the waste with a straight bit cutting on yet another offset outline. To come as close as possible to the M you're trying to duplicate I'd need to know the bevel angle, width, height, and thickness of the letter and how much of the thickness is beveled and how much is straight.
Note that the face surface v's are sharp, but the interior v's are limited by the radius of the straight bit. Also, I can't tell from my rendering whether the serif corners are rounded or sharp on the beveled portions, but we can see they are sharp on the surface.


5611

[mikejohn]

The photo in the first message appears to have no straight sides (unlike in Dons' simulation).
To achieve this, offset your letter to the outside by the desired depth of material (if using a 90º bit), and v carve the area between letter and offset, and you will achieve your sharp corners. For different angled bits you need to calculate the offset.
If you do want straight sides, you need to vector cut around another line offset the appropriate amount.

.............Mike

[gerald_d]

As Mike spotted, Jay's sample at the top has no vertical faces - it is all bevel right down onto the background (look at the shadows onto the blue). It is all done with a V-tool, so the sharp inside corners are not a problem. I agree with Mike's method: First "enlarge" the letter by drawing an offset all around it, draw the same amount of offset inside the letter, delete the outline which is now in the middle between the offsets, do conventional V-Carving between the offsets with software of your choice.

[paco]

V-Carving an outline produce another interesting result... but now, notice the outside corners...


5612

Have a look at this one;


5613

Vertical sides shouldn't be a limiting factor to produce any of those types of carvings.

This is all interesting results... just not "easy" to get both the outside AND the inside details carved.

[mikejohn]

OK
V carve the red triangle areas by offsetting the correct distance to ensure the depth you want, then profile cut along the green line with the same tool to the same depth.

5614
I am trying to recreate the picture in the first post.
Nothing to stop you V-carving every corner, if you wanted to do something different.
If your not cutting right through the material when v-carving then cut out tle letter with straight sides by offsetting the green line by half the bit diameter. You will, howevr, have 'rounded' corners along the straight parts.


.........Mike

[Brady Watson]

I did this in ArtCAM. The bevel goes all the way down to the letter base and has corner sharpening. I Area Cleared around the letter for clarity. I didn't see letter thickness or XY dimensions clarified so this is a 6" letter done with 60° V.


5615

-B

[Brady Watson]

You can see a little bit of the wall left by the profile cut. Anyone who has done primatics or this type of cutting before knows that you have to play with V-bit angles to get what you are looking for...

Close-up


5616

-B

[paco]

With Insignia (can be done in V-Carve Wizard too)...


5617

...what can be done in PW (as long as the V tool bit CED allows it; if not, trig. involved for stepdown/stepover pass)...


5618

[paco]

Brady,

I'm curious...

"Anyone who has done primatics or this type of cutting before knows that you have to play with V-bit angles to get what you are looking for..."

...what did you meant?

Have you done the above into a singular strategie?

I haven't tried Enroute; I wonder who it does about such...?

[Brady Watson]

Paco,
You will find 'Bevel Carving' in the toolpath tab of Insignia...same as in Pro.

-B

[gerald_d]

In a simple application, like this single M, you do not need V-Carving software. Using a simple CAD program, draw the M (yellow). Draw offset path around M (red)and set its z-depth deeper by the offset amount if it is a 45 degree bevel.


5619

Manually insert the 3 white lines joining red to yellow- these are inclined in 3D and give the detail points.


5620

Delete the original (yellow) M


5621

Export file as dxf

Using the free SB dxf converter in 3D mode, convert dxf to sbp. Cut with bevel bit.

This is more or less in line with the first two 2 replies (by Joe & Paco) right at the top of the thread - "special" software is not needed.

[Brady Watson]

Gerald,
That's a great example of how you can create one letter without any special software using a 90° bit. Well done. However, going through all of that to do a whole series of letters is time consuming, even for the those with good software skills.

If you have more money than time, it would probably make most sense to pay someone a few bucks who has the software to do the file for you...If you have more time than money, then try your hand at manually doing it.

-B

[gerald_d]

If I look at the website (http://www.surfixinc.com/) of the guys offering the M's for sale, I don't see evidence of them having very sophisticated software.

[neal@lasertechalaska.com]

Jay, I do this type of cnc work all the time. I use Enroute 3, kinda spendy but it's a good solid program.

[neal@lasertechalaska.com]

They show a Multicam Cnc Router with tool changer on their site. Most Multicam machines are sold with Enroute, that's what we use with our Multicam.

[kerrazy]

Jay I use profile lab, and I do this work all the time. Gerald solution is very simple though.

[wcsg]

I haven't tried yet, but can't artcam pro do this?

[paco]

Investigation show that so far, NONE is capable of doing this within a single strategie/toolpath/push button... please correct me if I'm wrong... with proof.

Do take a moment to study the difference between V Carving, Bevel carving/raised edge/prism and Intanglio strategie which can look alike thus confuse the concept of Bevel carving/raised edge/prism feature.

Again, I just wish to be proove that I'm wrong... with proof! 8-)

[mikejohn]

Paco
You have me confused.
A number of the solutions above appear to be a single strategie.
Don says V-carve Wizard can do it,Brady says ArtCam can do it, Gerald illustrates how to do it in AutoCad.
All the others will use Geralds toolpath type, its just that Gerald has done it manually.
Any method must follow this toolpath, however arrived at.
............Mike

[gerald_d]

Paco, your masochist tendencies are showing - I will refrain from indulging you.

[kerrazy]

Paco et al,
En Francias eh mon chum...
Not so hard With profile lab.
I scanned the above bitmap in Corel draw did a trace, saved as an eps brought in to ProfileLAb, applied an outline of approx .179 thendi a male pass with a 90 deg vbit, enabling 3d sharp corners. I believe thisis what you are trying to get???

5622


Dale
5623
5624

[kerrazy]

We could use a less acute bit like a 120 or a 140 to get a shallower or wider edge.

Dale

[kerrazy]

Here is my toolpath window
5625

[mziegler]

5626


5627

This letter M was cut out of MDF by using V-Carve Wizard.

Font is Times New Roman bold import from Corel Draw 12
Letter size 10 in wide by 7.5 in high by .5 in
In V-Carve Wizard for bevel cut, offset vectors .5 in with round corners for V-bit toolpath
V-bit 90 deg .75
Run V-bit first in the Z-axis
Cut time was 2.19 minutes
For profile cut, offset vector .25 with sharp corners for end mill bit toolpath
End mill bit .25
Run end mill second in A-axis
Cut time was 1.14 minutes
Hold down method - use pins, 21 gauge
The bevel is .25 deep on the letter and the edge is .25 high
The V-bit was just big enough to run the bevel cut in one pass
Mark

[paco]

Hey Dale!

Thanks for proving me that I was wrong (I had to trigger that kind of reaction to investigate about this...). Your last post show that Profile LAB can (?) do this in one single glance (kinda; you still have to work with vectors...). I have to look at ProfileLAB soon...

My points are that one can achieve similar results with different methods (sorry, I don't like they idea of skinning a cat!) and that one has to be looking to distinguish those differences... have you?! To me all are good but different; it's all about having control over your software to achieve the intended results.

Now I just hope Jay will get is letter done as he wish?!

[mziegler]

Here V-Carve Wizard preview image. It left in some waste material in the picture. Mark


5628

[pete]

Mark
Would you provide more details on your step to "Run end mill second in A-axis" please. I thought the A axis was used for functions like the indexer or drill. Thanks. Pete

[mziegler]

Peter, the a-axis is the accessory axis that is use to control an indexer or in my situation a second z-axis. V-carve Wizard has the Shopbot 2 head post processor file on their forum site for download if you have 2 z-axis Shopbot. Mark

[kerrazy]

Mark,
Good call, with the above.
For the people with one Z axis you do it in two tool changes, and use either a quater inch end mill, or even better an eigth inch end mill to get a tighter corner.
Dale

[kerrazy]

I will post some photos later of Prismatic letters I have produced for different signs.
Dale

[kerrazy]

Someone has requested a tutorial on this, I have just finished one this morning and I will try and have a link to it as soon as I can get it uploaded.

Dale

[kerrazy]

if interested please try this link : http://www.traditionalsignwerks.com/prisamtic2.exe

[matt_r]

As Paco was pointing out earlier, I wish that V-carve wiz did sharp outside corners on the bevels. While Mark's letter looks nice, I prefer the look of the original letter, a true prismatic. So, the question to any of you smarties with VCW is, can you devise a method in VCW to achieve the beveled outside corner. Maybe its a better question for the guys at Vetric.

-Matt

[paco]

Hey Matt!

As long as the bevel of the prism/raised edge is not larger than the radius of your V tool bit, just machine along (on) the vector at a specific depth and you'll get outside corners square. Right now, in VCW, if your V tool bit is not wide enough, you'll have to make some trig for step over/step down pass (this is done automatically in ArtCAM; that's why it's easy for any size). Say you have a 2" CED 90 deg. V tool bit, than you won't be able to create a larger bevel than 1" large and 1" deep. On 1" thick sheet good material, that still can give quite a large design letter. That why, PW can do this too... if you don't care about inside corners you'll get this (the lower one).

If you care about the inside corners being sharpened, send a mail to VETRIC team first to request this feature. Next you can add some vector to V Carve specific area to create those sharp inside corner manually. I can teach how I do this but... try it first... hi, hi, hi! More later gotta program on TV; I need a rest from the PC monitor!?!?!?

Now, to add some more confusion, you can get two types of "prism" kinda stuff; lets call it full prism/raised edge (that come to a point) and truncated (material is not thick enough to allow full prism/raised edge or you just prefer it that way; as seen in all above).

[matt_p]

Paco,
I think that it is possible to do this strategy in one quick step in Enroute. To create a return on the side would necessitate a second toolpath tho. Enroutes prismatic function is pretty powerful, but the 3d capabilities are mindblowing. It allows me to create a fixed height prism, meaning that the skinny parts on the stroke of the letter will carve at the same height, and even create a convex/concave side to the shape. From what I've seen so far, Enroute Pro has got a leg up on Artcam Pro. Too bad so few botters are using it, compared to Artcam.
I will check for sure tomorrow and verify my claim.

[paco]

Hummm... sound like a 3D design... that would require 3D toolpathing strategie thus plenty of time to carve. Keep us post...

ArtCAM is already VERY expen$ive and not up the support claim; how are you happy with Enroute support?... and the price you paid for? Nothing sarcastic here; just plain critic!

[matt_p]

OK, as far as one strategy, it seems Enroute will not carve sharp outside corners in 2d prismatic function, but it will do anything you like in 3d!
As far as support goes, I haven't really used or needed it in 3+ years of use. A couple of times and they were ok to work with.
It was easy to learn and use, because of the similarity to Gerber sign software that I was fluent with. The 3d upgrade is taking a little more time to master tho, there is just SO much to play with.
Cost was a lot, but thru hook-ups by suppliers using "competitor software" deals, I have paid half price. It has paid for itself tho in time saved and ease of use. I couldn't get any hooks on Artcam so thats how I ended up with Enroute.

[paco]

If you can profile (cut out) and/or machine along vector(s) and V carve, then you can get outside corners sharp as well as insides. You might just have to figure your way out of the software buttons and functions...

[matt_p]

I have to admit that I didn't run a cut to verify this, only checked the cut in ortho view. I couldn't find any letters handy that I have cut in the past. I even cut some for a customer this week! and I still couldn't verify the sharp outside corners. I will run a cut tomorrow and check for sure. But machining along a vector, both ways will give you rounded corners each way.

[paco]

Not if the vector corner (outside) is square... Intaglio have this "habit" to rounded outside corners (even if the outside corner(s) are square).

One aspect to consider about all this is that pretty much all the above machine the bevel OUTSIDE the vector boundaries while some other "technics" create the prism effect on the INSIDE boundaries... More than often Bevel edges/Raised edges/Prism strategies work on the inside boundaries while Intaglio work on the outside boundaries of vector(s).

[David Arde (Unregistered Guest)]

I just created the letter with the outside corners square in Rams. It has a function to turn on square corners and skeleton to get the sharp inside corner.I just used a 3/4" dia. 90 deg v bit and gave the tool path a 3/8" ofset then cut it out with a 1/4" dia. straigh bit with an extra ofset of 3/8". It looks exctly like the examples in the simulation. I just can't remember how to do a screen capture of the simulation to post it here.