Sign Not Sticking

[matt_r]

Greetings fellow botters,
I need some input from some true sign guys. I did a sign back in February for a friend of mine, and its having problems now. The sign is 10ft wide x 3ft tall. It has a background slab (10'x3'), which consists of 0.040 aluminum sheet bonded (contact adhesive) to 1/2" PVC. Then 18 letters, made from the same aluminum/PVC combo mounted on the background slab. The letters are roughly 8" tall.

The problem comes in sticking it to his brick wall. The sign is only about 8" off the ground, so there are no 'falling on somebody' issues here. But when I put it up, I just used Liquid Nails, and clamped it. We didn't want to see fastners on the front of the sign. Now its peeling away from the brick. Any ideas?
Mechanical fasteners seem to be the obvious choice, but I'm not sure how to do it, and have them hidden. I thought about making a border of sorts, and picture framing it, having the frame go back to the brick and put the fasteners in the frame. But I'm not sure what I would use for that frame. It has to be weather resisitant, and preferably black in color.

Thanks in advance.

-Matt

[tomj]

could you put some key slots in the back?

[matt_r]

Some other info here. I hesitate to take the sign fully off at this time. The middle 60-70% of the sign seems to be holding really well. I don't want to damage the sign by using some brute force to get it off the wall.
However, if it does get to the point where it looks like it will come off without much effort, then I'm open to suggestions along the lines of what Tom suggested with the key slots. At the same time - I'm worried about the PVC holding up with a key anchor and not ripping out. Maybe you just have to use a bunch of them.

Thanks for the reply Tom!


-Matt

[bill.young]

Hey Matt,

3M makes a Marine adhesive/sealant goo called 5200 that you can get in a caulking tube and will stick anything to anything. I occasionally use it when I'm absolutely sure I won't ever want to remove something...it's amazing tenacious stuff. It takes a couple of days to get tack-free and a week or so to completely cure, and comes in White, Tan, and Black. Just about any Marine supply place will stock it.

I'd bet that you could squirt it behind the parts that weren't stuck, clamp it for a week or so, and it would be there for good. Of course if you ever need to remove the sign in the future you'll have your hands full.

Bill

[Mayo]

I would go to the local Home Depot or Lowes or Ace Hardware and get a tube of GE Silicone II.
Squirt it in wherever the sign is coming off the wall, clamp again until set up. In my experience installing outdoor signs, silicone has performed better.
The liquid nails you used may not have been the outdoor version - they make several kinds now.

[den73160]

There is still the option of using mechanical fasteners. First find the location you want to place the fastener insert fastener and cover it with a vinyl dot of the same color. Hole and fastener covered and disappears. Quick and easy cover-up.

[joewino]

With a sign that size you are probably experiencing a lot of expansion and contraction with sun and heat - different materials expanding at different rates. Most likely, the sign is trying to curl up on each end.
And the weight of the sign is also a contributing factor.

My suggestion would be to use some type of mechanical fastners - maybe in each corner and then cover them with some type of clip art/ding bat that does not detract from the layout of the sign. Even a square shape of PVC that has a convex face (in a slighly different color value than the background) will cover the fastner and not be obtrusive to the design.

I would never rely on any adhesive to hold that large of a sign without some mechanical help.

[artisan]

What type liquid nails did you use? I generally only ever use the polyurethane type for outdoor work and it is recommended for concrete and loves water. Hilti also makes an excellent line of adhesives. If you remove the sign (hope it doesn't come to this) you attach a ledger board with an angled 45 degree face to the back of your sign and attach one with a reversed face to the wall so that the top board on the sign seats into the one on the wall. You will need a kicker or spacer board along the bottom. Apply adhesive to the hanger side first and you will have an invisible mounting system that has never failed for me....and makes mounting a sign a breeze....D


5994

[matt_r]

Thanks for all the replies. This forum is great. I was at the Utah SB camp over the weekend, and it was amazing how often the 'forum' was refered to as a vast array of helpful people and knowledge.
Well, before I saw most of your replies, I saw Bill Young's and decided to go with the 3M 5200 marine goo. Luckily they sell it at my local Home Depot. So I used that, and a bit more liquid nails, and clamped it all weekend. It was rock solid this morning.
BUT, after having read all of the above, it has me thinking about if/when this happens again. I didn't even think about using vinyl to cover the holes (using mechanical fasteners) - great idea. I'm sure its expansion/contraction thats killing me. So, in the future, - it will definitely be mechanical fasteners on a sign this size.

Again, thanks for all the replies!

-matt