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billp
03-26-2001, 09:49 PM
I just got back this morning from the Las Vegas sign show.It is one of the largest shows of it's kind, and this year was very well attended by a truly international contingent.In fact Chris Burns had to dust off his Spanish a little to handle the interest from a substantial number of sign makers in Central/South America. I suspect there will be a lot of new pins in the Shopbot map before very long..
Since we were all pretty busy at the booth I couldn't get around to see everything on the show floor, so I'm hoping a few others will chime in and add to my report. There were the usual plastics, vinyls, and LED exhibits since the industry has come to rely on that technology so heavily over the last few years. But there was a large showing of software and CNC machines as well.Luckily for everyone the Shopbot booth was not located in the area which became known as the 'CNC ghetto". Some companies had 4-5 machines on display, and with few exceptions they seemed to be the same machines with added bells, whistles, ( and dollar signs..). People would enter the show, get the high powered sales pitch in that area, and then come over to the Shopbot booth to sit down, and speak with people about using CNC technology in their businesses. I can't confirm this but there was a buzz that a few people even went back to some of the 'big guys'and got their deposits back after seeing the Shopbot in action.The only two really interesting machines I saw in that area were a full 4 x 8 ft CNC laser table by Multi Cam, and a 70 degree vertical tilt model by the same company. If I heard them right the laser table ran about 60 grand, but I didn't get a price on the vertical rig.
The most common comment we heard was "why are their machines so expensive , while yours is priced so reasonably?". Johm Forney coined the response of "well you'd have to ask THEM that....".
We were cutting files in precision board, plastics, etc., and we had samples of Corian lithopanes, and 3-D carvings by Fred Coyle and myself on hand.People were able to see the machine in action, and the guys from Profilelab gave demos on creating cutting files for our use as well.As you can imagine there are a few signs in Las Vegas, ( they even have a few sign museums there..), so this was a very knowledgeable audience.They were all impressed wth the newer PRT model, and it's straight forward design. The idea that they could also use the software they were already familiar with scored more than a few points as well.
A number of software manufacturers spent time at the booth, and rumor has it that "soon", there "might'be some new drivers for Shopbot appearing within the major packages being marketed..
Speaking of software I didn't really see anything new and revolutionary at the show, but we were so busy at the booth I could easily have missed something. All of the regular players were showing their latest versions ( Signlab 6, Modelmill/Enroute, etc.), but after one of these shows there seems to be a 'migration'of features from one company to the next..Modelmill WILL be phased out, and incorporated into Enroute shortly, and I suspect that the 3-D market will add a few new entries by the next major show as well.
The Shopbot crew of Chris Burns, Gordon Bergfors, Donna Bell, Fred Coyle, John and Reneé Forney and yours truly had our hands full fielding some pretty good questions thrown at us by a pretty knowledgeable audience.There were even a few local Shopbot owners who attended the show, who were pressed into duty to answer responses about how they liked the machine also. Most people wanted a way to expand their business into CNC cutting, and they all recognized that the Shopbot was a viable way to do so.
In short Shopbot 'showed the flag'very well, and now when you explain to people in the industry that you own a Shopbot, they'll understand...

jccwrks@aol.com
03-29-2001, 12:05 PM
A special word of thanks to John Forney & Bill Palumbo for their assistance at the sign show. Thanks for taking the time to sit with us and help with our questions on Vector - untold hours of frustration avoided there!! We can't say enough how much we love our little shopbot workhorse - the thing runs 6 hours a day, every day, for the past year, and runs like a top. We're astounded that the "big guys" at the show are still making such an impression with the overpriced machines they sell when Shopbot works so well.

Thanks again for your personal attention!
John Henderson & Cristy Parra

bwclark@centurytel.net
03-30-2001, 05:56 PM
Bill,

I agree that the ShopBot is GREAT for what it cost and what it does, but to say that a Shopbot is the exact same machine as say a Multicam MT510 is like saying a Volkswagon is the same as a Porsche. Sure, they both get you from point A to point B but there IS a difference. The real question is: Is there enough of a difference to justify the price difference?
You can see the Multicam machine in question, there URL is:
http://www.multicam.com/index.htm

In a high production environment, the Multicam can easily be justified, but when only making a few pieces a week/month, then the ShopBot is more in line with most people's budgets. There is one thing I definetly agree with though, the ShopBot is a great entry level machine to see if your shop will support enough business to justify one of these bigger machines later on.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)
PS I have NO affiliation with Multicam, but I have been through their factory and I was very impressed with the way there machines are made and the quality of parts/engineering that they use. I still ended up buying a ShopBot...and have been very happy with it.

billp
03-30-2001, 10:50 PM
Bruce, I'm not sure that I ever said anything such as the Shopbot and Multicam were the same exact machine...In fact at the Sign show I repeated the same mantra over and over again for three days 'the Multicam has higher top end speeds, and tighter tolerances than a Shopbot'.That did prompt some responses from a few experienced users who added, "BUT those numbers are deceiving when you take into account the kind of materials you are cutting.". For example I normally cut 3/4"plywood at about .75 inches a second on my PRT. With your knowledge of Multicam (OR Gerber, Roland,Precix etc..). how fast would they cut similar material in a single pass? regards, Bill

bwclark@centurytel.net
03-31-2001, 07:35 PM
Bill,

I have to be upfront. I have never seen the MT510 in person, but they claim 3000 IPM (50 inches per second--that being advertising hype, I will grant you that actual cutting speed may be 25 ips). I have heard of people actually using this high a speed in production environments (mainly people on the WoodWeb site who use high end machines) for MDF and solid woods.

Also, Multicam claims : (a direct quote from there website) 30 second load and unload times and processing a full sheet of material in under 4 minutes--or 80 sheets a day. Like I said, this is for high volumn producers, not someone who is making a few parts or cutouts a week.

Now, when I help work the Fort Worth B.I.G show for Shopbot last January, I did take a break and look at the Multicam machines in action. They had a MT22 machine routing a 3D shape (made with Modelmill) at around 300 ipm (5ips) and the results were impressive.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

jkforney
04-01-2001, 09:21 AM
To all
I just got back from teaching the second Vector class, and three days before that the Las Vegas sign show and just before that a training at a large manufacturer and just before that a trip to the island of Barbados for a training (I know quit complaining, I should be so lucky, look at your flyer miles etc.) and in my exhaustion I'm reflective so here goes.

Those of us that bought early in the Shopbot saga (plastic coated cables with wires coming out) were an adventoures breed. Some names on this forum remember the early BB discussions on how to best calibrate our machines. We discussed at length how to set up our machines and tweak them to get the best out of our tiny steppers. Motors so weak that you could stop your machines with your hand. Now shopbots are getting to be real serious machines that do serious work. The new owners are different. Not better, not worse just different.

Most of you who have bought in the last year or are contemplating a purchase have work to be done and you need a tool to do it with. Shopbot in many cases is the tool. When I started helping shopbotters years ago I felt as though we were plowing new ground. People now buying shopbots don't want any plowing just solutions to real workplace problems. As I said not better, not worse, just different.

Now sign people have come into the mix. You already own high dollar software and know how to use it. You are computer literate and work in an industry that is really solution based. You have shops much cleaner than my woodworking/furniture shop and most of you are younger than the people I see at the woodwoking shows. Not better, not worse, just different.

I enjoyed talking to all of you at Vegas and would like to have you email me about how we can improve our show presentation. What questions did you have that weren't answered? What would you like to see in the material we gave you? What can we do better?

For those with the cable machines, my hat (and most of my hair) is off to you. We have the new machines because of your pioneering.

Sorry for the rambling.


John Forney

ssanda@nvbell.net
04-01-2001, 01:36 PM
Hey, Bill, Did the Scanvec/Amiable people give any more clues as to when the combined Modelmill/Enroute product will be shipping? The first rumored release of "first quarter" has already gone by...

thanks

billp
04-01-2001, 04:09 PM
Rick, No they didn't. I asked for that info, and I got the feeling they didn't really know themselves yet. All they told me was that Modelmill would cease to exist as a standalone program, but Enroute would have all of it's features. They DID tell me it was still possible to buy Modelmill as a seperate program, and if someone already had sign making software, they might be able to save a few grand by going that route. If not it sounds as though the new Enroute would be a pretty good solution for sign making and 3-D work...