Dumb questions....

[myxpykalix]

first off i don't make cabinets, ect so to date i was not interested in this thread. HOWEVER, after seeing Don Thompsons nightstands I had this question.
My basic passing understanding is that you download a design program and create the cabinet, ect that you want to make then to get the files translated into something you can cut you have to have the shopbot link that you pay the $1000+ fee for and your files then can be made into a cut files to use on the bot...right so far?
So my question is since i don't do cabinets and wouldn't be willing to pay the fee is it permissable to use the design program to create a cabinet then pay someone who has the link to translate the files for me if i wanted to make one or two cabinets? Is there a fee for each file translated?

[thewoodcrafter]

Jack,
You can use e-cabinets all you want but as you said you will not be able to cut the files without buying the Link, $1200.
It will allow you to translate TWD (Thermwood) files into coded cut files that will cut directly.
The file generated is not a readable ShopBot file and it is not saved, it opens up the Shopbot control software and starts to cut.
So paying someone to make a cut file with the Link from your e-cabinets file is not an option.

For anyone else reading this, it is not a fee for the service it is a fee for a translation program
with no other costs.

[myxpykalix]

is that 1200.00 an annual fee or a one time fee?

[bleeth]

Jack: As of now it is a one time fee.
That being said, Those lovely little nightstands could have all the parts laid out in Partworks also!! Only the hummingbird carving (Is that one of James's?) needs anything capable of 3-d design.

[dlcw]

Jack,

Dave is correct. The parts for the nightstands could have easily been laid out in Partworks. The Hummingbird and Rose carvings are VectorArt3D models. The drawer fronts and tops of the nightstands are solid cherry so layout and carving of the Hummingbirds and appliques was easy.

In regards to whether or not you could design in eCabinets and have some else do the cutting/carving, yes you can do that (provided the other person has SB Link). You would need to provide the person with your eCabinets job files and they can use their copy of eCabinets to output the necessary files that would go through their SB Link and cut the materials for you.

Rogers right, you purchase the SB Link software and install it (and the USB key dungle that comes with your package) into your computer that connects to your ShopBot. SB Link is a translator from the Thermwood binary files into a G-Code file that our Shopbots understand and can execute. And boy are those G-Code files efficient in the way they make out Shopbots work.

Don

[beacon14]

I'm still waiting for a dumb question...this all seems pretty intelligent so far.

[thewoodcrafter]

The Link at $1200 is a really good price if your making cabinets for a living. The only thing close is 10 times the price.
But the program or e-cabinets rather, will do other things.
Drawers, carvings, furniture and cabinet doors.
Still cabinet related and pretty specific compared to Partworks or V-Carve.

[benchmench]

You also have the option of good old reliable (and recently updated) Cabinet Parts Pro at $250. that can create, nest and cut your cabinet parts or output a DXF to Partworks/Aspire.

[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
As the guys said above, you can get the eCabs software for free. Without owning a SB Link, you will not be able to cut the files yourself. You can however, save the completed file as an eCabs job file, (.esj) or a ready to nest file (.twd) and carry either of those to someone that has the Link (or a Thermwood) for cutting. Untill you get well versed in the eCabs parameters, I would recommend transfer using the .esj format, as parameters can be changed in the cabinet itself rather than cutting parameters.

There are many that do this all over the world, as most eCabs users do NOT have a machine. I cut a file today that I designed on my office computer to Steve's specs and cut it on his machine. Worked great. Only problem was tenons that were too tight, and that was fixed with some minor zshift trickery.
Gary

[bleeth]

OK Dave-try this:

So if I design on one computer but cut on another I need two links, right?


LOL

[khaos]

At first it seems rather deceptive to say 'its' free when without paying the $1200.00 you can play with it all day, just not do anything with it. In order to gain a benifit you must pay. Why not say it costs $1200? Basically this is crippleware. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware

However, I could see a usage similar to printing where people have cameras but not big developer machines and they use the lower cost equipment (camera) to take (create) pictures and then take them to someone who has spent the bucks on the expensive gear. Am I 'getting' the picture with this business model?

So, I have my asbestos suit on ....

[thewoodcrafter]

If you design on 1 computer and generate the TWD file, you copy it to the ShopBot computer, that has the Link on it, and convert it and run the bot.

[thewoodcrafter]

Joe,
I think you are missing what e-cabinets can do.
I have been using it for almost 5 years, long before I had a ShopBot and long before the Link was developed to interfeace with the ShopBot.
The Link does make e-cabinets even more useful but does not turn a worthless program into something because it is VERY useful in its own right.

[dlcw]

Roger is right about eCabinets and its uses.

Over on the eCabinets forum (Thermwood) there are several people who design beautiful projects with it, use the 3D rendering to sell the project to the customer and then have someone who owns a Thermwood (or Shopbot) machine cut it out for them. There have been several comments in threads where people have stated that the design and rendering in eCabinets sold the project for them, not whether they could cut it on their CNC machine or not. It was the design that sold.

I just sold a kitchen design because of eCabinets. Granted, now I can't get it to generate the nested layout (performs part of the nesting operation then locks up the computer - eCabinets support has been notified) so I can send it to my SB Link and cut it, but the customer doesn't care how it's built as long as they get what they saw in the design. They loved it! So, eCabinets is not worthless if it sells jobs for you.

Thermwood has a production sharing link on their website that can get you hooked up with someone who owns a Thermwood or Shopbot CNC that can cut your jobs for you. Might be more expensive then $1200 but what the heck, you wouldn't have to buy SB Link.

Don

[myxpykalix]

Just for discussions sake, lets say i design some cabinets and want someone who has the link to cut them for me, are there any SBer's in Va with the link and what would one charge for something like that? an hourly fee? It seems to me that if i am going to do more than a couple cabinets depending on how close i have a shopbotter and cost it might be more cost effective to buy the link.

[courtney2018]

In my opinion $1200 is pocket change if you're doing an entire kitchen. If I were doing my kitchen I'd buy it in a heart beat because there's no way that I'd be able to get someone else to build the exact same thing for $1200 more than what I could build it for.

However, just for a nightstand one or two times it would be cheaper to find someone else who's got it. You might want to ask yourself the bigger question of "do I want to design and build cabinets from time to time for extra money?" In that regard, spending $1200 to make many times over that is a cheap investment.

[kerry_fullington]

Joe,

eCabinet Systems Software is not "Cripple Ware" by any stretch of the imagination. It is a complete Screen to Machine Cabinet Design and Manufacturing software that Thermwood provides customers who buy their machines. This is a potential savings of the $10,000 to $20,000 that it would cost these customers to purchase Design and Manufacturing Software that is comparable to eCabinets. Thermwood generously offers this same design software to you absolutely free. If you want the software to "talk" to your ShopBot you must purchase the post processor (Link). You would have to purchase a post processor with any software package you purchase for it to be able to communicate with your ShopBot.
eCabinet Systems Software is extremely powerful cabinet design and manufacturing software, it is absolutely free, and is one of the best deals anyone will ever offer you.

Kerry

[bcammack]

I believe that we paid approximately $1000-$1200 for Gibbs to add a Northwood post processer to GibbsCAM, base on our specifications. And that was for essentially a Fanuc machine with some manufacturer-specific M-code variations.

[khaos]

I think I get it. I like that the designer can create a design and sell the design. Its hard to get a full handle on things without asking dumb questions.

[kerry_fullington]

Hi Brett,

So you paid essentially what the eCabinets ShopBot Link costs for your post processor. What are you using for cabinet design software?

Kerry

[bcammack]

We make granite and engineered quartz countertops (among other materials, but those are the ones we use the CNC router/mills for).

I was just trying to illustrate that it wasn't an out-of-place amount of money for that sort of software. i.e. something that interfaces the CAM software to the machine.

We capture cabinet layouts after install with either an LT-55 laser templater or a ProLiner. The field rep pulls them onto a laptop, drops the raw DXF of the datapoints into IntelliCAD and refines the drawings, adding overhangs, annotating sink centers, dishwasher location, etc. before connecting to our template upload server website (normally from the field using a free WiFi link like at McDonald's or a coffeeshop).

The Engineering department takes over after that, dropping the right sink cutout in, adding any necessary production items. They create the production-ready DXFs, then use those to program the CNCs in GibbsCAM and the waterjet cutter using MTC ProNest. If physical templates are desired, they're cut after all this on an Allen Datagraphics vinyl cutter/plotter.

We used to use sheets of Corroplast in the field and a big digitizing board in Engineering to capture the dimensions.

We use our ShopBot for repetitive production work, cutting out sink bowl and faucet holes in our 3cm resin vanity top product. Those programs I created in sbEdit.

[erniek]

I have found that you can generate the cutting file with the link and transport the file to another computer to cut the file. But you will need to move the usb keylock to the other computer as well. The file is located at:

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Thermwood\ShopBot Link\data.sbe

It gets over written every time you generate a new cutting file.

[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
All of the major cabinet design packages have separate "machining modules". Most of these are priced in the thousands of dollars. Some require onsite final adjustments and tuning which can be another couple thousand. eCabs is really both free and full featured, but has a learning curve in months, not hours. The only cost to you as a ShopBotter will be to add the Link if you want to machine these youself. Easily justifyable, if doing cabinets for a living.

Dave...
A single link can be carried to both your computers. There is no real need to have one anywhere but on the cutting computer, unless you wish to view code lines prior to cutting. The CNC button in eCabs will return the same nest as the Link and allow you to audit both position and size of all cut or drill features on each sheet.

Joe...
No bait and switch here. eCabs is free, the machine link is not. The Link is a good value compared to others like it out there. eCabs is priced $20K under its equals. Total them up and see where you might be. Maybe those that have the machining modules for 20-20, KCDW, CabinetVision or MicroVellum might chime in.

Ernie...
That method may work, but gives you a non editable file that wont work as well as the TWD or TWD, ESJ combo on the control computer. This combo allows any change that would be needed to achieve great results.

Dan...
As a user of both, they both have their good and not so good points. CPPro is much easier to learn, cuts a box every bit as well, but doesnt have the ability to adjust components to edge band and other variables as well as eCabs. That being said, and assuming you have your settings correct, nothing will go from screen to machine faster than CPPro. The fact that flip sided machining for mortise/tenon construction is not supported by CPPro is the only major downfall. It has the abilty to customize post P's as well as any.

eCabs is a real pain if you find (usually after curtting) that you had some settings off. As with any program with hundreds of features, there are hundreds of settings. Paying very close attention to these settings and developing a "seed" system works well, but attention to all details is required prior to every cutting untill full confidence in the seeds is accomplished.

That being said, if you prefer to use dado or butt construction, you will be cutting profficiently in a much shorter time with CPPro, but may, in time, need features beyond those included. I reccommend BOTH!


Off to the states.....
Gary

[wberminio]

Gary

I have KCD.It is a great screen to machine program.
Full 3D drawing/easy to use/great support.
No complaints only
It Costs a Bundle!

If any one owns a Shopbot-eCabs is the only way to go!
(Wish it came out years ago.)

Erminio

[bleeth]

He's baaaaaaack!

(That was a dumb question on my part to make DB feel better-didn't expect answer.)
Bring back any good rum and cigars?

[Gary Campbell]

Dave...
How about a mail order West Indies bride and a great recipe for Monkey and Goat stew?

Gary

[bleeth]

Goin' down to Monkey Island for some huntin'?
Congratulations on your nuptuals. What's her name?

[Gary Campbell]

Didnt find out the name yet, I think customs is going to tell me that when they release her!
Gary