Aluminum Letters

[matt_r]

I need a material recommendation. I have been asked to bid on some lettering that needs to be redone. The current letters are made from aluminum sheet faced foam board. The letters are mounted with some sort of adhesive to a brick wall. With the elements, the foam has been eaten away behind the aluminum sheet, and hence, the need for new lettering. The customer wants to maintain the same brushed aluminum look, but doesn't care whether it has foam or not. Any ideas on what material to use this time?

Thanks,
Matt

[Brady Watson]

Use Extiera with the AL laminted on it. I just saw a similar sign in Las Vegas (very hot and dry) with no coating on the edges. It is remarkably resilient. I have several pieces of Extira in the bed of my truck in direct sunlight and weather (have been there for a full year so far)...no signs of delamination or other defect.

-Brady

[matt_r]

Nice idea Brady. I happen to have some Extira - now I've just got to get some AL and some good glue. Also curious what to do to keep the AL from oxidizing and becoming cloudy in the weather.

Matt

[jhicks]

The Alcan site WWW.alcancompositesusa.com (http://WWW.alcancompositesusa.com) lists their "DIEBOND" and "alucobond" as routable materials suitable for outdoor architectual use in signs or even building surfaces. They categorize DIEBOND as a long life product specifically for interior and exterior signage. They call it "the ultimate substrate" with (ACM) aluminum composite material. 2 sheets of aluminum with polyethelene core. Their literature says call 800-626-3365 for tech support, samples and literature. Standard finishes include a variety of aluminum colors including fine silver and brushed silver plus custom colors but no mention of what minimums are.. I have a sample of both but haven't tried cutting it yet so all I know is the above. The applications and work depicted certainly look interesting. Best of luck but it sounds much easier or suitable than laminating aluminum sheet on exteria? Guess there are many ways to skin the cat.

[Andy (Unregistered Guest)]

Dibond cuts just fine with CNC. I use a twin spiral upcut bit at around 12,000 RPM. You can whizz through this material pretty quick.

If you use the wrong bit- a rough endmill you will tear the aluminium face skins. I've used a cheap 6mm wood cutting bit with no problem.

On the Alcan site it used to say that the brushed stainless steel effect material- Butler Finish- is not suitable for exterior use. I'm not sure if this has changed but I spoke to one of the UK reps from Alcan and they hadn't heard anything about it- we all us Butler on exterior applications here in the UK with no problems whatsoever.

You can use hidden cup and peg sign fixings on your dibond letters with no problems- superglue is fine to hold the pegs on the reverse side.

Dibond mirror has just arrived in the stockists here in the UK- it's pretty good stuff- a good substitute for Chrome


If you come across the mirror finish I have been told by the Alcan rep there are two thicknesses- 3 & 4mm. Don't use the 3mm outdoors cos it's not rated for anything apart from indoor use.

If you are planning to do a lot of dibond work Alcan used to do a CD-ROM explaining the machining techniques you can use.

Hope this helps

[rjguinn@optonline.net]

Andy,
I'm not familiar with the hidden cup & peg fittings. Could you please descibe it in more detail or post a photo?
Thanks,
Jeff

[UK Andy (Unregistered Guest)]

Jeff,

Hidden cup & peg fittings are sometime called locators.

Basically what you've got is a two part system;

The peg part is a hard plastic with either a ball end or a rib. On the tip of the peg is a little point. You glue these pegs onto the back of your letters. There are three sizes small, standard and jumbo- depending on the size and stroke width of your text you use the appropriate size. When the pegs are stuck you turn them over an lay out ontop of a paper "template". Draw round the letters- for characters like O's you draw an arrow indicating UP. For multiple characters of the same type on the same template you mark on the back 1 to 4 for example- you write the order on the template. You need to do this as the pegs are put on by hand in slightly different positions- marking letter and template means you aren't fiddling around on site.

The sharp points on the pegs allow you to push the letters onto the paper template and leave a centre point- this is the drill mark for fitting to the wall. If the marks don't show up to well you can beg, borrow or pinch pool cue chalk and rub this onto the pegs before you press them down.

To fit the letters to the wall you tape your paper template into place getting it level and drill through using the peg drill points as your guide. Just plug the holes with standard wall plugs (do this after you take the template off the wall other wise it can pull the plugs back out)

The cup part of the fixing is a small nylon cup or bucket shaped fitting. This has a hole in the bottom through which you pop a woodscrew. Fix this into the wall plug.

Once all the cups are in place you just lift the letters up and push the pegs into the cups- they should snap, or click into place.

Voila- a hidden, secure fixing system. If you need to take a letter off you can prise the pegs back out of the cups- with Plex you need to be careful you don't crack it.

For curved or really uneven wall surfaces you use the same principle.

Instead of the cup & pegs you fit either flat headed bolts or threaded rod to the rear of the letters and make a template (pool chalk is a good idea on this one).

Drill the template as before but this time don't plug the holes- just blow out any dust.

Fill each hole about 2 3rds full of silicone or resin fix and push the threads into the holes- if you use rods of the right length and drill the holes to the right depth you can push and pull the letters until you are following the curve or if on a really uneven wall until you are level at the highest point- I've used this method to install 5ft aluminium lettering on the 2nd floor of a library.

I will try and dig out pictures of said fittings- they are a standard sign making component here in the UK and have been around for years.

You should be able to get them from a sign supplier- in terms of cost I pay about £25 for 500 cups and 500 pegs.

Hope that all made sence


Cheers
Andy

[WCSC (Unregistered Guest)]

How thick are the letters that you are trying to match up? If it's 1/2" or 3/4" I would suggest laminating a sheet of aluminum to PVC. Quick and painless, I use this combo all the time

[rjguinn@optonline.net]

Andy,
Thanks for the info. I've tried the web with no luck. Photos would be great!
Thanks,
Jeff

[jsfrost]

Andy,

Thanks for the detailed answer to a question I never even had to ask. I will be installing some letters this weekend, and was wondering how.

JIm