IPE glue

[john_l]

I have read here about using Titebond and/or Gorilla Glue. I have tried both on IPE, after cleaning with laquer thinnner and letting it dry. Neither seemed to hold a joint very well. I could snap it apart with a small amount of thumb pressure, even days later. Titebond seemed to be a better bond, but only slightly better.

Any new advice on glueing this stuff?

[dlcw]

John,

Have you tried cleaning with acetone first? When I've worked with teak I use acetone and Titebond II glue and have had no problems. Another option might be to try cyan glue (super glue) P2-10 I think is what it's called.

Don

[knight_toolworks]

don't clean the wood freshly sand or plane it then glue it. titebond 3 does a little better then gorilla glue. though neither will make a stronger then wood joint.
people have said epoxy and I have not tested it myself. because what I was going it would have been a nightmare to use it.
but I have glued a ton of it with gorilla glue and now I would only use titebond 3
if I remember I will test some epoxy and see how it works.

[michael_schwartz]

Fine woodworking recommended yellow glue for Ipe in a test they did a while back. Here is the article.

http://www.titebond.com/Download/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf

I used polyurethane glue one time in an attempt to repair a piece of furniture in my youth, and I have never used it for woodworking since. I probably bought it because of the gorilla on the label thinking that meant something.

[knight_toolworks]

when I started using oily woods I tested the regular glues and gorilla glue was the best. but I had noticed over the last few years that it did not make as good of joints.
I had used 1 bottle 1.5 months so that added up. but when I ran the same test last year gorilla was not as good. but I never had a better ipe joint then any other joint. I cut the same pieces of wood so I could glue them up with three different glues. so each joint had the same wood. I found titebond a little stronger the gorilla on all the joints but the ipe joint was not that great. the joint failed almost completely over the wood failing on the padouk test with yellow and gorilla. I just face glued them and waited 2 days to test them.
I have tested this joint many times over the years and with ipe the joint's were ok but not stronger then the wood. so it makes me wonder how they got such a good joint with ipe?

[michael_schwartz]

Seems like they did a fairly scientific test but I am interested as how yours differed.

One thing I did notice is that for a type II PVA they were not using TightBond but Elmers which could possibly be of a different formulation.

However I primarily work with domestic hardwoods, and the few exotics I work with seem to work well with PVA, or epoxy. I have worked with IPE but I have never had to glue a mission critical joint.

I am curious as to how the FWW test differs from Steve's results, since I know he has quite a bit of experience, and of course the FWW test seemed pretty detailed.

[michael_schwartz]

Seems like they did a fairly scientific test but I am interested as how yours differed.

One thing I did notice is that for a type II PVA they were not using TightBond but Elmers which could possibly be of a different formulation. I use epoxy when it makes sense.

However I primarily work with domestic hardwoods, and the few exotics I work with seem to work well with PVA, or epoxy. I have worked with IPE but I have never had to glue a mission critical joint.

I am curious as to how the FWW test differs from Steve's results, since I know he has quite a bit of experience, and of course the FWW test seemed pretty detailed.

[gc3]

Another good thread...

http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/adhesives/555621.html


Gene Crain
www.plantasymaderas.com (http://www.plantasymaderas.com)

[wberminio]

In gluing "oily" woods-basically silica-teak,ipe...after planing-
saturate joint with denatured alcohol then glue with a PVA glue immediately.
It always has always worked.

Erminio

[knight_toolworks]

most ipe sold is more of the decking wood. it has more moisture and tends to be a bit darker and more figured. so it might be a bit different then the ipe boards I get that are fully dry.
I have been using ipe for 10 years now and never got better joints then non oily woods.
but after reading the woodweb argument it was the joint they used that made the glue look strong not the glue it's self. I planed the wood dampened both side for the gorilla glue and glued and clamped them and left them two days.
I have done this test on cuts offs to test my joints and ipe never was great but gorilla used to do better.
here are pics of my test. cocobolo padouk and ipe
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1939753/gluetest1.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1939753/gluetest2.JPG

[gc3]

Poly glues do not stand up well to heat, Gorilla included.... West Systems Epoxy should provide the bond you need.......PVA's handle heat better, if proper machining is done. Also if you use a "mortice/tenon" type joint you will increase the surface area of the glue joint. All exterior panels we use for doors have at the very least a .625 rabbeted joint...even better is using a glue joint cutter which will increase the bonding surface by at least 4 times. No reason to leave material clamped for 2 days...after 1 hr most bonding agents for wood have achieved their strength...what you need to wait for is the wood at the bond area to return to it's original MC. Search the woodweb adhesives forum for more info on glues and the proper bonding of wood substrates.


Gene Crain
www.plantasymaderas.com (http://www.plantasymaderas.com)

[woodworx]

Here is what you do, don't glue it. Ipe is available up to 12/4 K.D. If you need some width to your piece just tongue and groove it or use epoxy. If you do have to do a glue up, back up everything with screws. Just countersink your screws and plug them.

[gc3]

Justin...wood moves, mechanical fastners will not stop lateral expansion/movement...period.


Gene Crain
www.plantasymaderas.com (http://www.plantasymaderas.com)

[rcnewcomb]

Smith All Wood Epoxy works well even on oily woods.
->Link (http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?NameProdHeader=Smith+All+Wood+Ep oxy)

[john_l]

Thanks for all of the advice folks.

I did try cleaning with acetone first and it just seamed to me the laquer thinner was doing a little better job of cleaning the edges.
I was taking the clamps off after about 12-14 hours of wait in a climate controlled area of our shop.

On this job, I ended up getting a good enough bond with Titebond II. It was a glue up of edge jointed IPE deck boards that I machined sponsor names into from one side. After machining, I flipped it and cut pocket screw holes every 6" along the joints. I used the shortest pocket screws I had on hand.

I had a small piece that I had previously cleaned the edge of laying next to a few uncleaned scraps... after a few days I noticed that I couldn't hardly tell the difference. I think the "oil" seeps back to the cleaned surface... maybe a result of certain temperature conditions because it has been cold here the last few weeks.

Thanks for all the help.