Cabinet Parts Pro

[cedars]

Anyone out there currently using Cabinet Parts Pro in their business? I sure could use help breaking this learning curve with information on what bits work best, what settings are working best etc. I am cutting 3/4" birch plywood for cabinet boxes. I am having trouble getting the right settings for making a dado just the right width to accept the plywood tops and bottoms. I am also getting a lot of tear out from the bit. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

[harryball]

I'm not using it in a busines, but I am using it to make cabinets around the house. I'm not brave enough to tackle something like kitchen cabinets or anything, but I've had good results.

Lately I've begun using CPPro to create the dxf files and importing them into Aspire. It seems a little cumbersome at first but I'm considerably more comfortable using Aspire to make tweaks and generate toolpaths and the preview is very helpful. With the newest version of Aspire/VCPro (Partworks as well) you get multiple sheet support which makes it easier.

Good luck and post some of your work.

/RB

[john_hartman]

Steve, I just started using the CPP with mixed results. Be prepared for a learning curve. There's no way around it and you will be better off in the long run having had gone through it.

As far as bit, I have found a 3/8" straight bit to work best for cutting maple/birch ply @ 15000rpm, 5" ips. With this bit you in a minimum of 1/2" clearance between parts..

[loriny]

Check in the techniques section. I was looking for some of the same information. It is under cutting with 1/4 or 5mm bits or something like that. As for the depth of dado I ws having trouble and found that when I was flattening my spoil board the center would suck closer to the vacuum grid and machine less off. I had to situate a few pieces of gasketing under the spoil board to keep it flat. When I would cut the plywood the spoilboard must not flex so the center would be higher. Now my dadoes are perfect.
lorin

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
We have found that the best bit for cutting cabinets, especially those with dados are mortise compression bits. They virtually eliminate tear due to the up/down flute configuration.

They also have a reduced height section of upcut on the tip of the bit. This allows very clean dados (when cutting .24 or deeper).

If you need to cut dados under .375 wide, then use the 1/4" version, if wider works, then use the 3/8". The 3/8 will cut the dados faster, and allow higher cutting speeds due to the extra beef in the bit. BTW, we are using bits Centurion Tool. (not affiliated)

We use a climb/conventions 2 pass method for our parts. 1st pass is 6 ips, .71 deep, climb mill, 13500 rpm. Second is 6 ips, full depth, conventional, same rpm. Hope this helps.
Gary

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
I got lost on the bit stuff... can you post what your dado settings are?
Gary

[cedars]

Gary,

I think I was using a compression bit but I wonder that with a cutting depth of only .25 for the dado was the up cut portion of the bit to high thus causing the excessive tear out?

My settings for my base cabinet for the blind/full dados is: depth .25", stop 0, width .7343 and side clearance .05. The plywood I am using actually measures .7343. Now in the tool paths my settings for the dados are: tool diameter .375, depth per pass .25, step over .395, rpm 12000 feed rate 4 and plunge rate 2, tool offset inside, direction conventional.

All of this seems to produce a dado that is to narrow for the plywood.

I am also confused about the feed rate. I am told my prt standard has a max feed rate of 6 or 8 ips yet I see comments about 120ips or 300 ips, how is this possible.

One more thing. Under cabinet settings, construction options, is there some place that can give me a clear explanation of just what these options will produce for me. I must be thick, because I am finding them rather difficult to understand. The way I like to do dados for the backs for example, I dado .25 on the two sides and also for the bottom. The top is cut same as the sides less the thickness of the offset and .25 back. I assemble the cabinet and slide the top down into the dado and nail the back to the back of the top piece. I am not clear on what combination of construction options will yeild this for me.

I am very new to this forum but I am finding is so very helpful. I am so grateful for the information you have gone before me are willing to share.

Thanks,
Steve

[bill_lumley]

Steve , contact Ryan at info@cabinetpartspro.com (mailto:info@cabinetpartspro.com) . He can help you out . He wrote the program and is happy to help new users . It will be faster than this


Bill

[cedars]

Bill,

I have been in touch with Ryan and he has been a big help.

I was hoping to get bit information and setting information from someone who has found what works best for them. This, I think, will get me up and running with the least pile of expensive scrap wood.
As it is my pile is large enough.

Steve

[benchmench]

Steve,

The best way to work out the settings for your method of joinery is to manually figure out the cutlist for a standard size cabinet of each type you want to make, for example, "base" 24x24x34.5, then make it in CPPRO using the construction settings and compare the nested output of each part with your manual cutlist. Some of the settings are self-explanatory, some are not but this is one way to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
Measure the height of the upcut flutes on the tip of the bit. If they are taller than your mortise is deep, thats your problem. The shorter (usually around .2) flutes is what gives the mortise compression its ability to cut shallow mortises (dados) Compression bits are usually used to cut single pass thru (or almost thru) material.

When I do full width dados, I usually overcut the plywood thickness by .010 to .015. In CPPro there are a couple ways to "trick" the software into doing what you want. The first is to simply set the bit diameter to a smaller number, such as .365 and your dados will come .020 larger. Another is to add thickness to the panel thickness (.7343 to .750)

Note: Set your bit stepover to less than the diameter... try around 85-90%

The differences you see in speed are 4 inches per SECOND = 240 inches per MINUTE. Either can be used... you just need to be consistant and remember to divide ipm by 60 to get ips.

Try these settings for your const. options, if you cant make it work, email me as I have a custom settings file that will work for you, but you will have to enter your material thickness'.

6866

One thing that you will have to keep in mind, is that you cannot use a blind dado in combination with a back dado in a cabinet bottom unless the dado is full plywood width.

CPPro, like some other cabinet design software out there has an excruciatingly painful number of options that must all be correct before you can ever expect to get good parts. All the ones with few options have a shorter learning curve, but we have put them aside due to lack of features.

Another note: Nat Wheatley has cut drawers similar to what you explain above. He used a dado (lock joint) to connect the sides and front/back. The front and back were set to "same depth as sides less thickness of backs"
Gary

[Gary Campbell]

Robert...
This is nothing against Aspire, but if you take the time to set up your postP's in CPPro, you will end up with a single cut file per sheet.

I am not aware that the Vectric products do this yet. Probably the only downside to the new nesting and sheets features now available to us cabinet cutters.
Gary

[cedars]

Gary,

Thanks so much for the info. Unfortunately, I am home today with my sick daughter but tomorrow I will be in the shop and will put your suggestions to the test.

Thanks to all for the imput! I will be entering the shop much more confident tommorrow.

I'll post how I make out.

Steve

[nat_wheatley]

Steve,

Dadoing for backs can be set up to match just about any method you'd use, but it is one of the more difficult features to figure out. I've used the software for awhile now, and still have difficulty remembering what combination of settings produces what results with that one. It will do what you want it to do, but best bet is to e-mail Ryan or post here if it's got you scratching your head.

[cabnet636]

"Anyone out there currently using Cabinet Parts Pro in their business?"

yes i am

jim
6867

[cedars]

Hey Gary or Jim,

Would either one of you mind giving me a call. I need to talk through the issues I am having with CPPro. For the life of me, I can't get the right width dado to fit the 3/4" plywood. I keep adjusting the full/blind dado numbers and the tool path numbers. Things are all over the place and I have accumulated a plie of scrap plywood. I am also not getting a complete cut through on the parimeter cuts. I end up with this onion skin left. Again, I have adjusted the settings all over the place and I'm just not getting it.

Clearly, I'm frustrated and it would be so very helpful to talk to one of you. You can call me at 717-615-2503 or email me your number and I'll call you.

Can't wait to get rolling.

Steve

[zeykr]

Steve,
Is your bit new and sharp? Could you be moving too fast with a small 1/4 or 5mm bit? I've had dado's get to small when my bit starts deflecting as it gets dull.

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
Key may be right... I forgot to mention that when we spoke.. try your dados in climb mill for 1 test and see if the size changes.
Gary

[benchmark]

Hey James,

You look very tight for space in your workshop

Paul

[cedars]

I woke up this morning with the thought that the whole problem could be the bit or the collet. Sorry Ken and Gary, I hadn't read your posts at that point.

I was using a 3/8" bit with a 3.8" shank. I changed to a 3/8" bit with a 1/2" shank. I also returned all the settings in CPPro to where they should be in order to cut a .75 wide dado and what do you know, a perfect dado. So, needless to say, on Monday I'll be ordering a bunch of new bits and a couple of new collets.

Ryan did walk me through tightening up my y carriage. That certainly was a good thing to do, but it didn't seem to improve the dado situation.

Thank you all for th input and the many conversations. I am certain that without your help this shop bot might have been sitting on the outside of my shop looking in just out of frustration. So, it is really a blessing to have so much help and so available.

Thanks again.

Steve

[weslambe]

Use it in mine too
6868

[cedars]

Nice work Wes,

Next week I begin my first kitchen. Can't wait. Your photo is an encouragement.

Thanks,
Steve

[carlcnc]

Steve
sounds like you are[were] fighting two separate issues
#1 your 3/8 bit was undersized. I have new bits
ordered as 3/8 be as small as .348!
and it is common to have brand name bits be under by as much as 10 thou. ie .365, this would make a dado .020 under.
the onion skinning could be plywood that is thicker than you think even pricey stuff can range from /730-.765 sheet to sheet.

Carl

[Gary Campbell]

Steve, Carl....
Remember as you set up your cutting that CPPro will only cut as deep as you say the material is. If you want to cut deeper, say .010 or so into the spoilboard, you should either have your plywood entered that added thickness, or build a small additional cut depth into the postP.

I am working on some postP lines that will do this automatically, should you care to add this feature. They should be tested and ready for Ryans next release. Along with eliminating the onion skin, this will also allow you to cut 1/2 or 1/4 sheets without a rezero.
Gary

[paul_z]

I am trying out CPP and I was unable to get the 3D view. I sent an email to Ryan and got the following response "If you right click on a cabinet in the cabinet list and select view 3D."

I don't get a 3D view selection when I right click. I've sent a couple of messages back to Ryan but no response. Am I doing something wrong?

I'd like to by the pro version but I'd like to get the free version working first.

Paul Z

[Gary Campbell]

Paul...
I am using a different version than you are, but have seen the 3D view work. This as a feature that is due to have some major improvements in the upcoming months as Ryan transistions into a multi cabinet 3D design module.

There is a possibilty that the free version is not completely funtional.
Gary

[cabindoors]

I also have the latest trial version of CPP and the 3d does not work.

I'm also interested in the product but I liked the old version of picking the sheet material from a list. This seemed much better than changing the material thicknesses each time. (ie some jobs are for 3/4 inch ply, 1/4" backs, etc and some are for 1/2" material for all of the cabinets. I invision a nightmare having to remember the settings file I used on such and such a project and wanting to duplicate it.

Ryan, wouldn't it be better to use your old format of choosing from a material list first. (As in your old version?

[Ryan Patterson]

The free version is a little behind the Pro version. I will get the free version updated today.
The reason for the material being the way it is now is it allows you to use ¼” backs and 3/4” material for all the reset. Or for those that do face frame ¾” tops and bottoms ½” for sides and ¼” for the backs. Then the different thickness material will be nested on different sheets. The old version did not allow this.
If you have any questions please let me know. info@cabinetpartspro.com (mailto:info@cabinetpartspro.com)

[cabindoors]

Thanks Ryan for the answers.

[cabindoors]

Ryan,

I just downloaded the free CCPro version again and the 3d does not work. Apparently it hasn't been updated yet. I look forward to testing this feature. Any word on it's update status or am I doing something wrong?

I think that your program will really work for us but need to test it's features.

Tom

[cedars]

A couple of days ago my new compression bits arrived. I ran a sample last night. Holy smokes!!! What a difference a new bit makes. I had been testing the machine with the bits I received with my used machine. Needless to say, those are ALL IN THE TRASH NOW. I certainly learned a lot about the Bot on this frustrating journey.

The only thing that remains a small challenge is: on the edge of the dado is just a small radius left from the over cut. It's like the dado isn't being over cut enough to ensure a perfect straight cut. Any thoughts on correcting this?

Thanks for everyone's input, it has been invaluable. This forum and the Shop Bot community was one of the biggest deciding factors in buying the machine I did. Botters Rule!

Steve Schmucker

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
Glad to see that you solved the dado problem. I have noticed during my testing that some of the dado rectangles looked close enough to suspect.

I am sure that this will be looked at and repaired in the near future. I , of course, cant speak for Ryan, but all the verified problems that I have knowledge of, have been, or are being fixed. You are going to be very happy with the next release.
Gary

[cabindoors]

Gary,

Is there a next release in the works?

[cabnet636]

after my conversation with gary last night we have a lot to look forward to!!

jim

[cabindoors]

Excellent! I look forward to the new CCP.

I was not impressed with the 3d views but hopefully Ryan will improve that too. He's doing a great job for the price, I think.

Tom

[Gary Campbell]

Ryan has been stuck away in that dark programming cave for a while now. I am not sure what his schedule is, but I can tell you there will be many substantial improvements in the program, from what I have seen. Most of these are things that make the program work better, but not prettier.

That is to say, no color changes etc... but it sure will layout a ton of cabinets to sheets in a short time. There are also toolpath enhancements that allow for some very aggressive cutting tecniques, and when combined with the ability to write all the cutting actions to a single SBP file, no matter how many tools or changes, this little application has a value far beyond its cost.

Tom...
What is your proposed use for the 3D views? I find them not that high on my personal list. Having seen many programs with this feature, as far back as the early 90's beta testing for Chief Architect, it seems that all the multi thousand dollar programs have this feature, and then we need to turn it all off to submit a drawing. Being an old guy... I prefer to audit my parts as they are nested. That way sizes, cutting depths and locations can all be checked for accuracy prior to toolpathing. Very few 3D views in programs under $20K have this feature.
Gary

[cabindoors]

Gary,

You are right of course. But I find 3d exploded views an instantaneous check on the basic size, layout (ie dados, rabbits where expected) and components (ie # of shelves where expected, etc). If there are obvious problems in my design, I solve those first.

For me, viewing a dxf cutting file with many sheets of components answers few of the obvious problems that 3d views are capable of showing. (The views also should not be on a black background).

Tom

[Gary Campbell]

Tom..
I agree... for a quick check... you bet, the 3D view is a winner. Especially when there is an extra part etc. I have been calculating and nesting hundreds of cabinets and auditing part sizes, dados, hinge and drawer holes for accuracy. I have been doing this using the CPPro Cabinet Cad, with an occasional DXF export to VCPro, skipping right by the 3D view. Most of this has been done by selecting the individual part and viewing its X and Y coordinates to 3 decimal accuracy. This has also built a high confidence level for me with this software.
Gary

[Ryan Patterson]

CabinetPartsPro has been updated.
Thanks to Gary Campbell and Nat Wheatly for all your help and suggestions. Below is a list of added and improved features. If you would like to have a new feature please let me know. One of the new features is the User Options. This option will allow you to add any feature you would like with VB Scripting. If you would like to use the VB Scripting send me an email and will help get you started.
You will need to uninstall before installing this update. If you have any questions Please email them to info@cabinetpartspro.com (mailto:info@cabinetpartspro.com)
This update includes:
Added length to the dados
Easier selection for construction options
Improved part spacing on nesting
Option to add a stretcher for every drawer
Option cut onion skin
Option to add a center leg leveler hole for cabinet greater than set amount
fix Pocket holes
User scripting (ability to add your own features with VB Scripting)
Auto order of layers for tool paths
Improved nesting import from KCDW and AutoCabinets
Changed Back ground color of 3D view to white

http://www.cabinetpartspro.com/downloads.htm

[cabnet636]

yea!!!!

[cabnet636]

i just went thru the upgrade, drawer stretchers!!!!

excellent upgrade ryan!!

jim

[Gary Campbell]

Jim...
Maybe you can now check a few more boxes and start drilling hinges and draw slides too! Feeling spoiled?
Gary

[cabnet636]

touche' the program does look good!!

jim

[john_hartman]

I just uploaded the new version. It does seem cleaner. I look forward to running some new configurations on it soon. One thing I was thinking would be nice is a way to print the "nested" sheets for visual reference for during and after the part cut out.