C2 - Z-Zero not working

[bill_lumley]

The C2 Zero routine for Z goes down , touches and comes back up all of 1/4 “ and then goes down again .It comes back up the same amount and says it is happy at the new level of 1” which clearing is WRONG as I can see the bit is only clearly ¼” above the table . How can this happen and more importantly be rectified .

Thanks Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
Can you explain what you were doing, and what version of SB3 you are using and which version of the Zzero file you are using?

Did this just happen after a software upgrade?
Did you make any other changes?
Is it repeatable?
Gary

[bill_lumley]

I have SB 3.6.1 and eCabinets Link 1.0.9 that I have updated in the past week . I think I have only zeroed my Z twice with C2 since moving to 3.6.1 as I have only been doing air cuts to get th e-cabinet link running . The only other 'event' today is once I forgot to turn my spindle on when a cut started and the Z did a head butt on the table while I fumbled for the stop button but I was ale to Zero properly and do more cutting after that event .

Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
If you run the Zzero again... does it work properly? Did this happen more than once?

One last question, was did this happen during a manual bit change in an SB Link file?
Gary

[bill_lumley]

Yes it is repeatable . I tried about 8 times and the same thing happens each time ...

[Gary Campbell]

Bill..
Run the zzero again until it makes the error.

Then run [U] [L] command to list variables.
Save the file (lower left corner)
email to me
Gary

[dana_swift]

Open the following file:

C:\SbParts\Custom\Custom2.sbc

At the top of the file the first few lines is the change history. See if your file is newer, if so something may be different there and got loaded when you updated your SB3, you can switch back to an old version of Custom2.sbc if that is the problem.

Mine shows:

'ZZERO.SBP -- Example File showing how to Zero Z Axis on contact plate
'Copyright 1998-2005. ShopBot Tools, Inc.
'T.Hall 12/98,7/00,5/01,4/04,7/05
'B.Young 9/05,4/06
'User takes responsibility for the effects and outcomes of the use of this program.

Hope that helps-

D

[ralphe]

I am new to ShopBot and took the beginers class.
We used MDF to make our project. I tried using can spray paint primer on the MDF and the paint just soaks in.
Questions:
1. Is there a special MDF that takes paint?
2. What is a good water base primer to use?

I do have a HVLP sprayer.

Thank you,

Ralph

[dana_swift]

Ralph- howdy! This really should be the start of a new thread, that way people will be able to notice your question. People reading this thread think you are talking about ZZero issues.

As to your question, I dont know of any special MDF.. if it were me, I would use a filler/sealer just like porous wood. MDF is very porous. Once you get a nice flat surface, put your top-coat on. Your top coat will have to be compatible with the filler.

There are other folks on here, especially in the sign threads that will be much better at answering this question than I.

Good luck, and welcome!

D

[zeykr]

Ralph,
Carpenters glue thinned with water makes an inexpensive sealer for mdf and can be sprayed.

For outdoors applications you can seal with thinned epoxy before painting.

[bill_lumley]

Dana , my unit values got corrupted and it is now working fine after reloading the software and initiallizing everything again . I am not sure what happened ..... I wish I understood what caused these Alzheimer moments for the Bot .
On to the next problem ... another thread .

[wberminio]

Happy to hear your back up and running,Bill


Erminio

[dana_swift]

Bill, glad you found the problem. When you look under the hood, a problem like that usually doesn't last long. Its annoying that it ever occurred.

I recently helped a friend set up a CNC mill. The thing was maddening. Where ShopBot exposes the underlying software so you can see it and modify it to suit your purposes. It was not possible to peer into the CNC controller of the mill. Everything was sealed, and often ENCRYPTED. Modifying things like post processors was specifically disabled. Why? It sure made me appreciate the open design of the SB. And it cost many times more than a SB.

Each time I dig into the "how it really works" I find the shopbot is not mysterious "under the hood". At first I avoided digging around at details like "how does zzero work?", and other great questions. Now I have made my own custom commands that are useful for my applications.

Congratulations- its good to see another problem gone!

D

[bill_lumley]

Erminio , I wish I was . I am trying to get C3 working now . It zips through the promximity switches without stopping . This machine can be a challenge at times ....

[pete]

Bill, et al

Since I have loaded V3.6.1, my X and Y Unit Values have changed twice on me.

The first time it did it, the machine would not find X and Y home properly. The second time, it started a cut in the wrong location.

So, I an now making it a point to do a VU before I cut anything.

So, if you have recently upgraded to V3.6.1 and are having Unit Values issues you need to keep an eye on those settings. Sounds like a bug in the upgrade to me (it will be resolved if so, I am sure).

Pete

[ted]

Peter and others,

On losing the unit values. It is possible we have created a problem with the upgrade, but so far we have not had other reports of this.

Here's why things might have gotten messed up: With Sb3.6.x, we have tried to become fully compliant with all the Vista (and coming Windows 7) security requirements for User Account Control. What this means, is that a number of ShopBot files that normally get updated with current information about things like settings (the ShopBot.ini file for example) have been moved to new, Windows-UAC-appropriate locations. This typically means that a file that was kept in C:\Program Files\ShopBot\ShopBot 3 has been moved to the User\AppData folder (which can have a different name depending on system). In making this happen, Sb3.6.1 looks around for your old stuff and trys to move it, rather than starting from scratch.

There seems a possibility that there might be some scenarios that we are not handling this correctly and end up with an incorrect value. This might be most likely on a Vista computer because this system can create and use shadow copies of files that have been stored under "Program Files" and then updated.

Hopefully, ShopBot Support can help you work through this.

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[butch]

Peter
I had two situations happen at once. I don't like doing things this way incase something goes wrong, but I had no choice. I lost my computer a few weeks past and had to buy a new computer. When I went to get the ShopBot software, it had been upgraded to 3.6.1. I had been using the 3.6.1beta for several months and liked the changes, and had no problems.
I ran into the same issue as you did. I couldn't get the C3 function to work. Didn't matter what I did. I did find the ini file and deleted it. Finally I looked in the UV file and found that it was a lot different than it use to be. I now believe that I took the first PRT Alpha (PRT Alpha 7.2), or maybe even the PRS Alpha setup. I went to the original ShopBot program and found the correct values. The next time I loaded 3.6.1 I made certain I loaded the PRT Alpha (not 7.2) That seemed to fix the problems with accuracy.
Now I am having 'lost comm', 'table limit' errors and lockup of the ShopBot during file runs. I have eliminated the Cross Talk on the data lines by separations, wire cross (no parallel lines), turned off the dust collection system, and tested the ground. I went into Vista and turned off every program I could find that had nothing to do with operations. Then turned off all the power savers and screen savers I can find. Ran the latest upgrades and looked for updated drivers. That seemed to help, but failed to eliminate the lockups, lost comm, and table limit errors. I can actually see the light flash on the X proxy switch. When it stops, the spindle does not shutdown. But at times it will allow me to ‘resume’ with the warning that the table limit function has been bypassed. But usually it just locks up and will not allow me to do anything.

Butch

[dana_swift]

Ted- Please provide an alternate to windows. Ugh.. Vista has been such a nightmare for most businesses that XP "downgrades" are standard offerings now, and it appears MS is going to "FIX" that by making the platform even less flexible. Probably then they will withdraw XP completely to force the mess on their customers.

Linux and MACs are both viable platforms with USB ports. They don't require complete rewrites every time the wind changes directions. Not to mention the process of writing device drivers and other hardware accessing software is well documented.

One suggestion is to write SB4 in JAVA (or perhaps MONO?), then run everywhere, with a small "OS abstraction layer".

I would be happy to visit on the subject off-line any time...

D

[wmcghee]

Mac would be nice. I used to use a Macbook with Vista loaded on it to control the Shopbot but it just wasn't stable so I use an older laptop with XP now. But using a Mac without Windows would be sweet.

[robtown]

I actually have an old NT 4.0 workstation running my Bot.

When I did my control board upgrade last year I built out an XP box, loaded it with RAM and set it up as my new control CPU, but the new HD died in 60 days, so I scrambled and dug out this old Dell workstation I and and set it up as a temporary machine until I could get the XP box back online. It runs so well on the NT box I never bothered to fix that XP box, got the HD replaced but it's still sitting on a shelf.

Rock freakin solid, not a single issue in almost a year.

[ron brown]

I've been tunning LINUX for several years w/o a problem unless it was induced by a root user. I have a 'design' computer with XP running RHINO and VECTOR. I actually avoid using it except when I need it for a printing task, design task or want to listen to certain radio stations on the internet.

My 'ShopBot' computer is running XP. It is not even hooked up to the internet although I am thinking about setting up a 'restricted access' to the design computer.

Personally, I would enjoy starting a computer, not learning I had updates from X, Y and Z the computer thought it needed and avoid bowing to Redmond several times a day in solemn prayer I'm not hit by a new computer virus.

One of the problems that will occur, no matter what system, are the changes that evolve with new architecture. What happens when JAVA ports to a new communication protocol? What happens when the industries decide fiber-optics is the way, the truth and the light?

I think we will always have nefarious b***ards who will attempt to ruin the working class folk's day by writing virus programs. I am sure the 'average' computer user will be able to download and upgrade a UNIX based computer to become unstable in an attempt to see someone's 'private parts'. However, it would be nice to have a stable OS the folks in 'fruit and nut-ville' are attempting to change or patch every week.

Ron