I am so worn out

[knight_toolworks]

My wife went down to her mom's for a week and I had a little money and I got the work out of the way so it was time to redo my shop. it has been needing it for a long time. when I moved in I was making planes and I did not work with large pieces of wood. then I bought my cnc router and had to wedge it in. things were really tight and my dc setup had gotten pretty bazar.
So I got a load of scrap wood to the recyclers and started friday right after I did the last job for a customer.
so first thing the cnc router got moved and now has 3' on each side and the back is fully accessible to easy loading. now the tablesaw is fully usable and the larger bandsaw is too. not sure if the lathe is pictured but it is going by-bye. there will be a shelf for my sanders and the computers will go on the blue table by my machine. I got most things placed today and ran more pipe. the picture is of the overarm swing arm for the dc to the router. I was hoping to finish it today but 8:30 was late enough.
Iam so worn out but still several more days of dc work and finishing everything. got to get a 3 phase line ran to the machine again since the old one is where the chopsaw is. I will have a 4x8 assembly table right by the chopsaw in the corner and another one right by the router between the tablesaw and bandsaw. and a outfeed table too. plus now I can put shelves up too.
the link has lots of pics. but I had fun making the overhead swing arm as the last project.
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/blogspot%20posting/

7081

[bleeth]

Steve:
I feel your pain. I've been getting a new shop ready to move into and due to work load the only time I have been able to get some real work in on it has been the last three weekends. Everything from partition work, electrical and data rough in, office flooring, wall repair, painting, doors, etc. Have had some great help from friends but it's still turning me into a zombie. Picturing it finished in my mind keeps me going but since we are supposed to be moved by end of month I'm starting to evaluate what has to be done now and do the rest after we are moved.

[knight_toolworks]

I have to get it hammered out so I can get working again. hope by the middle of this week. the dc is the real time killer as usual this is my 4th time so I hope I am better at it.

[bleeth]

The new place needs so much pipe and suction I have to postpone central and just stick with the existing mini units and add 1 more. The "big" upgrade for dc is gonna be remote switches and better laid out gates. What I really need is another cabinet saw to fall in my lap!!
Every step of the way adds more stuff to the list of needs. Been there, done that, too many times!!
Let's meet in the middle (maybe Austin or something) when it's over and cut loose!!

[widgetworks_unlimited]

It's amazing to me how long it takes to "get everything in it's place"!

I rearranged every tool in our shop last summer. Every bench, shelf, wall rack, dc, etc. It probably wouldn't have been such a PITA except that I was tripping over tools/boxes and couldn't find the tools I needed (always look under the tallest pile of junk first) for most of the project.

The results have definitely been a huge step forward, but I'll think twice before I volunteer to go through all that again. (I know, I know... it's inevitable.)

One of my favorite things about my old setup was having several retractable air lines hanging above the assembly benches - never had to worry about tripping or searching for a hook up. It's been 6 months and I still haven't gotten around to plumbing compressed air through the shop. Two steps forward, one step back...

Best of luck Steve!

[knight_toolworks]

I got the bulk of the dc pipe up. I will make sure everything is in the place I want it before I run the hose to everything.
I have to have good dc as I am in the basement and the dust has no where to go.

[gerryv]

Sounds intimidating. Over the next 3 months, I'm going to be setting up a shop with a Shopbot, a large Technomax euro. combination machine, a 50" dual drum sander, a 16" resaw bandsaw and some other pieces and know nothing about DC. Are there any basic rules about DC? i.e. whether the gates are best at the machines or where the ducts branch off from the main trunk? Is there any place anyone can suggest where I can get some pic's. I'll likely be getting a 3HP Oneida cyclone so wondering if anyone has used their DC design services?

[myxpykalix]

Gerald to me it makes sense to put the gate at the machine because if your dust collector is running and you start work at the tool only to realize the gate isn't open you don't want to have to run to the DC to open it but open it right where you are at.

[bcondon]

Gerald

There are several books you can get, hopefully from your local library.

The trick is to balance the ability to keep your dust particals airborne versus the volume/pressure in the pipe.

A BIG pipe requires high CFM, smaller pipe uses smaller CFM, many machines need HIGH CFM.

Jack is right. Put a blast gate at every machine and its own hose... I no longer am interested in moving hoses from machine to machine.

I used 4" PVC for all my pipe, use LARGE radius corners. I used an internal and external grounding wire and have not had ANY grounding, discharge problems in 3 years... (this might be confrontational but I have read articles on both sides of the PVC issues... PVC is cheap, seals well, accepts plastic blast gates (www.grizzley.com (http://www.grizzley.com)).

I use a 3 HP reliant (no longer available) for Shopbot + 1 other machine but I have 30 feet of pipe and 8 blast gates on it, one for each machine.

I also have a 30 Gal barrel with a separator at my DC and another at my shopbot to collect all the shavings...

[bleeth]

Gerald: You are putting in some heavy equipment that will have some pretty hefty dc needs. The cfm need of your dust collector (HP is somewhat irrelevant) is based on how much total is needed when machines are running simultaneously that are likely to run. It is likely in a cnc shop that your cnc will not be the only machine running so those needs plus the needs of what else is running added gives one the total needs. A complete system to handle, for example, the bot, Techno, and sander running simultaneously could easily require 4-6000 cfm. No small shop system can handle that. Several of the dust collection companies will do calculations for you if you fill in the info on line. Distances involved are also key. They actually need a pretty good floor plan to determine needs correctly. The size of the pipe needed is also directly related to the size of the inlet on your dc. Here is a link to one such outfit: http://www.airhand.com/designing.asp

[Gary Campbell]

Gerry...
I agree with Dave that a 3hp Oneida may not be up to the task for that equipment list. We use a 2100 cfm cannister unit for the cutoff saw, slider, jointer and planer. It will handle any 2 at one time. We also have a 1200 cfm unit for the stroke, oscillating edge, belt/disc and wide sanders, plus the edgbander and router table. It will handle 1 and a half at a time. Our last 1200 cfm cannister unit is dedicated to the bot. This allows us to operate virtually any combination of equipment and not be lacking proper dust control. We also dont have to run one large unit sized for all continuously.

A good source of info is : "Woodshop Dust Control" by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. He is very down to earth and explains both sides of the "to or not to PVC" as it applies to small shops.
Gary

[bill_lumley]

I just went through the design cycle with Oneida and I recommend them for that . I ended up with a 3HP V-series cyclone but it is only doing the Shopbot and a small glue pot edgebander at once . They will walk you through what is needed and where . The other references are good also if you want to do the design yourself . I have enough on my plate without becoming a DC expert so I chose to get the 'free' consulting .

Bill

[chiloquinruss]

I use a Woodmaster 5000 cfm for my whole shop. Even so, 2 tools at once is OK 3 or more there is a very noticeable fall off in the collection of each tool. Russ

http://www.woodmastertools.com/NS/accessdetail.cfm?PID=88


7082

[gerryv]

Thanks for the save on this everyone!

Being that the main culprits will likely be the 16" planer on the combination machine and the 50" Woodmaster double drum sander I can now see how the 3HP unit might have some trouble so the extra couple of hundred to move up to a 5 HP unit seems like a wise thing to do.

I'll also make the most of the various DC sites you've pointed to.

While the Shopbot Buddy 32 will be used mainly for designing and cutting out templates for the spindle shaper on the combi. We're still hoping to trade the Buddy up to a larger PRS with spindle unit sometime so that will add to the load as well and, you're right, it will likely be working while the other machines.

The advise is really appreciated!

[knight_toolworks]

the problem with that woodmastger is you don't have nearly enough filter area. so you loose a lot of airflow because of such small bags. but this is really a problem with most of all bag dc's my bags are 24x8' and I would need a minimum of 2.5I think though I have 5 for really good airflow.

7083

[widgetworks_unlimited]

Steve makes a good point. I'm guessing that most of us run with partially clogged filters much of the time.

We have a small shop and don't need the power that you guys are talking about. Our DC does a good job, but after cutting 1 sheet of MDF into small pieces (with pockets, etc.) the filter needs to be cleaned or there's a substantial loss of power.

We have a corrugated paper filter - I think it's .2 micron or something. That may clog up faster than the cloth bags - but my lungs aren't complaining.

[gene]

Steve,
How effective is the dust cyclone at reducing the material that gets into the collector bags? I have been looking at getting one for my shop and from what i hear they do a good job. There is a good deal on ebay for someone in the north east on a cyclone . i wish they would ship but they wont.

[knight_toolworks]

very good for the most part.mine was not setup right and I got a lot more fine dust then most people in the bags. but i was thinking dust was coming out the bags but it was just the smell.
you seldom have to clean the filters out.