This Forum seems to be changing - Good or Bad?

[tmerrill]

I have been a proud owner of a ShopBot for over 7 years and have followed this forum for longer than that. It used to be a great technical forum and there wasn't a thread where I didn't learn something. Yes, there were occasionally some "light-hearted" posts but they never got out of hand and balanced well with the stronger technical side.

That appears to be changing and the change is gaining momentum. There are more off-topic threads appearing and the technical threads get more and more off-topic posts and pictures. Simply put, and in my opinion, there are a small number of members wanting to change this into a social forum. In some ways it is self-perpetuating: New people join, observe the current posts and use that as their starting point.

ShopBot is kind enough to offer and maintain this forum for us and has an Administrator/Moderator to monitor postings for obvious issues, but the rest is up to us, it's members. If the majority wants a stronger non-technical presence then I bow to the majority. But I hope the opposite is true. I have noticed what seems to be a recent decline in contributions from the knowledgeable "regulars" whose posts I always want to read. Are they just too busy or is it something else?

So I throw this out for thought, and yes, it is only one man's opinion.

Tim

[kartracer63]

I haven't been a member of this forum that long Tim. But, in the short time I've been tuning in, it has become a little more social than it was.

I belong to several other forums. Most of them have a "lounge" to post social topics or non-technical issues.

[rhfurniture]

I think a lot of people start threads on this topic that should be on others because it gets the most response - everyone looks at it. Perhaps a topic "about the forum" should be started for threads like this... oops, just noticed there is one. I too miss some of the technical detail that used to get posted. Maybe it is a result of Shopbot's relabelling their product a "personal robotic system" - it used to be prtool, and we all had to make our own tables. And now we have e-cabinets to produce kitchens at the click of a mouse. A bit like windows developing its user interface - bring back NT4 and the command line I say..

[joe]

Like Eric, I post on other forums and found them also to gravitate to being social outlets. That's not to say it's bad, but Tim's observation is correct. It probably has something to do with male bonding.

Many of us are working on projects and could be sharing more about them. I for one am experimenting all the time and enjoy showing the processes, full well knowing no one else will use these particular steps. Even so I'm fairly confident it gets some SB'ers creative juices flowing.

Wouldn't it be helpful if some of our expert cabinet makers would lead us through a project, start to finish? And post under Cabinets.
Those kind of posts are something you can get your teeth into. We need more photo's!

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[mrdovey]

Tim...

The forum (rather publicly) reflects the nature of the entire ShopBot community.

The regulars stop posting when they conclude it is in their best interest to not post here, and there is a (relatively small) number of reasons for them to reach that conclusion. It's not all that mysterious, and enumeration of possible reasons is left as an exercise for the reader.

...Morris

[njandpa]

Tim this is a good subject to bring up. I have been learning here for about a year and don't comment much as I'm learning. I get annoyed sometimes at the "goofy" stuff once and awhile but this is how I handle it. I just move on to the next post.
I'm sure many people will read your statement and not reply but they may think ont it a little.

[myxpykalix]

I may be one of the "guilty ones" however when you think about it, in a conversation among 4 or 5 guys it never stays strictly technical and strays off topic in conversations in normal course so this tends to mirror that (like morris stated).

Frankly if it was strictly a technical forum would be VERY BORING.
Lets face it this is a social outlet to a degree.

I have asked on occassion about OT subjects but I don't think that is a unforgiveable sin.

I think those regulars who choose to stop posting because they conclude it is in their best interest to not post are the only ones who lose out.

It's hard to know if you break the rules if you don't know what the rules are....

no offense to anyone...

[nat_wheatley]

Plenty of things do bother me, but for some reason this doesn't. I do agree, though, that in terms of 'sorting', it may help to add a lounge or 'off topic' area. As with Eric, most of the other forums that I visit have an area for this, and it does seem to serve this purpose.

[mrdovey]

I may be one of the "guilty ones" however when you think about it, in a conversation among 4 or 5 guys it never stays strictly technical and strays off topic in conversations in normal course so this tends to mirror that (like morris stated).

True, although I wasn't really addressing attention span...

Frankly if it was strictly a technical forum would be VERY BORING. Lets face it this is a social outlet to a degree.

Irrelevant verbage is indeed boring - and worse, it tends to hide useful information in noise. At issue are the definitions of "useful information" and "noise".

Since this is ShopBot's forum, this might be a wizard time for a moderator to comment...

I have asked on occassion about OT subjects but I don't think that is a unforgiveable sin.

Neither do I, but when "on occasion" becomes "the usual", I'm inclined to ignore a thread that's been joined by a habitual polluter/hijacker.

I think those regulars who choose to stop posting because they conclude it is in their best interest to not post are the only ones who lose out.

Hold that thought.


It's hard to know if you break the rules if you don't know what the rules are....

I can see where that might be a problem.

no offense to anyone...

None taken - I hope gave none.

[tmerrill]

Hi Morris,

You're one of the regulars I miss.

Tim

[gene]

Hold that thought.

Yea, I think i had better hold my thoughts, Since it has no technical value!

[wberminio]

I feel this forum is an informal place to both learn and to inform others.It has been very technical and specific when necessary,tempered with humor.Which we all need these days.

Morris
I just checked out your profile and the easy links to your very informative website.
Thanks for your tips!
I still haven't been able ordered your Super Zero.
I had to redirect my limited funds...but is it still is on my list.
It would have saved me numerous times.

I also miss your comments and advice

Erminio

[gene]

If it were not for the people posting on this forum shopbot would not be the company that it is . The reason i purchased a bot was the forum. If people tend to get a little off topic and show a little personality then well be it, If it bothers you that bad, Tough. i guess there is always the Vectric forum . If it were easier to post photos then there might be more posted. Yes there is alot of good information here and i as one do appreciate it much as i am sure others do as well. I guess if it doesnt pertain strictly to the use of the bot then do not post it, Bull------ , What about advise on a project that you are new at? What about new products? I guess we should keep it strickly technical like a bunch of crabby old men!

[tmerrill]

Gene,

You missed the point completely. Perhaps it is my fault for using the term "technical" instead of "on-topic". I will take the blame for that.

Posts on new projects, how to do a project, new products that can help the ShopBot community, etc., are all appropriate and are technical/on-topic in nature. These have been on-going for the 7+ years I've visited the forum and I have personally benefited from them.

As for the Vectric forum, right now it is setting the standard as far as I'm concerned. We do make some humorous posts but they don't distract from the purpose of sharing information and helping others. I can't think of any true off-topic threads or posts that have appeared on the Vectric forum and I've been following that since day 1 (not counting spam of course). I think that shows the respect Vectric users have for the forum.

Tim

[jnbish]

I agree with Erminio and Gene
Jeff Bishop

[Forum Admin]

Note that "While debate and discussion are fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, purposeless inflammatory posts, or posts intended primarily as put-downs or one-ups." Please don't make the moderator have to think!

[mrdovey]

Tim, Erminio...

Thanks for the kind words.


Gene...

You mean this isn't a forum for cranky old men? Yes, personality always shows through.

Mine is that of a cranky old great-grandfather who tends to be impatient about the usual kinds of things old men get cranky about.


Aside from that, I treasure civility, comraderie, and creative problem-solving wherever I find it.

I agree about the photos. For a number of years I maintained web pages of 'Bot-related photo sets (dust collection, a 4' joinery jig, sign-making, clamps and fixtures, a panel saw design, etc) on my web site. When it became a headache to maintain, I dumped a number of the pages, but there are still a few left to encourage newbies - one of which shows the solution (and formulas) for the arch problem discussed elsethread.

But when/if the photo problem is finally solved, the forum will have the problem of videos...

...Morris

[erik_f]

I don't know what I'm considered on this forum or if I'm even knoticed, but it seems to be a little watered down. I like reading through posts to see if I can help, partly because I always learn something. I don't post as much not because I'm too busy, I don't use my bot to make money anymore, I don't post because I don't feel like reading through all the posts that aren't relevant. Not all of us are crabby old men, I'm a crabby young man (32). I guess it used to be a little light banter mix with the more serious underlying subject at hand. I don't really care what anyone posts. I'm glad people enjoy themselves. Part of it is Shopbot has changed. My prs is ALOT different. Than my first prt. I bought my prt 4x8 for 8k delivered. Now you can't get a bt32 delivered for that much. Kind of changes the demographics. Excuse the typing coming from the phone.

[coach]

Take what you can use, leave the rest.
I get a lot of information here and sometimes it isn't exactly shopbot related.
On the "off topic" stuff.....sometimes I am entertained,,,,sometimes I am not.

[john_l]

I don't really see a problem. As many have said.. just ignore what you don't want to read... scan.

Some other forums have an "ignore" feature, where you can ignore and not even see any post made by a particular member. I'd use that myself. I saw a post here from about a couple years ago under the "About This Forum" section mentioning some new forum software being on the way. Maybe this is a good feature for the wishlist along with pics and videos.

[harryball]

Remember Tim, you started this…

I'm sure many have noticed that I, myself, do not post as often. I wonder why...

Have I lost my enthusiasm for Shopbot? No
Have I become disgusted with the forums themselves? No, they are a great wealth of information.
Is it the social part that annoys me? Well, not so much. Kept in perspective and in the right forum it is no more than what we do at a camp when we all get together.
I'm still interested, I still read the forums, I still offer advice and help where I can.
So what has happened?

1) I have been busy. Let's face it, the forums are not at the top of my priority list. At best it is a cup of coffee casual reading and posting mixed with the occasional research or contribution stint.

2) I see someone sharing experience followed by 50+ posts about how their neighbors buddy's sister's uncle who owns a factory with an employee who...

3) I am annoyed greatly with blatantly misplaced posts. Any topic that starts with "I know there is a tech support forum but I'm posting it here..." should be deleted. You knew you were doing it wrong and did it anyway.

4) I am doubly annoyed by posts in 2 forums at the same time. "I posted this here too because the other forum may not be used as much..." uhh... delete the users account and the posts.

5) Posts that include "I know I could probably search and find the answer but..." uhhh... instead of spending 5 minutes and either answering your question or being able to bring some wisdom of what you've learned so far… you'd rather I just tell you the answer to save YOU time?

6) The 42834th post of the same topic already in the forums.

7) Technical posts that I am interested in that become a social thread followed by an offending jab followed by a dog pile. I have to sift through all that to find 1 post that tells me the answer.

8) Rude posts criticizing forum members for not answering a question. i.e. “HELLO, you guys asleep? Doesn’t somebody know the answer to this? This has been posted for 6 minutes now…”

9) Private emails containing one of the following: Complaining about me, complaining about another forum member, complaining about Shopbot, asking me for production files, asking me technical questions instead of taking them to the forum AND drum roll… trying to #$%$% sell me something.

10) Scanning for content consumes more time than reading content.

---
I would like to see enforcement of double posters and incorrect forum posts.

A select group of users to help monitor the forums and perform basic functions like he ability to move posts to the correct forum or flag suspect posts to assist the Forum Admin.

A warning or rating system, once you’ve posted 500+ times you should be able to place a warning on other members that will eventually shut them down.

A Captcha system to send emails. I like having my email there and it is nice to get relevant polite emails. Spammers can sign up and run a script that will ping each profile, grab the email and send a message or farm it for later. Captcha isn’t perfect but slows them down. (that’s those annoying letters you have to type). These guys have learned many of the tricks to ( bill at gmail.com or bob at gmail dot com).

A lounge that drops all posts older than 30 days. ALL chat should be confined to that forum and not archived. I doubt I’ll never need to search the archives to see who spilled paint on their shoes but I may get a laugh for today. For community it’s great and encouraged to build bonds, if I want to chat I’ll visit the lounge, if I do not I won’t.

Well… Tim started it.

/RB

[cnc_works]

I'm voting for no changes and certainly no more restrictions on posting than the forum admin declared, including any changes in structure.

Other than one...make it easier to post pictures!

Being in this forum is much like going to a Shopbot Jamboree. Camaraderie and technical information mixed in a very attractive manner. As noted by others, we have the wonderful capability of self editing and only reading or posting what and when we wish and I appreciate the continuing ability to do just that for myself.

Probably 3 cents worth by now so I'll quit.

Donn

[Gary Campbell]

WHAT ROBERT SAID

[wayne_walker]

I am more of a lerker that a participant. With that said, I generally check the forum every couple days. I read what may be of interest and skip what is not.
I think Robert's comments have hit the nail on the head.
More pics would be nice, my woodworking skills are limited and a picture helps alot.
A lounge may make it easier to seperate the wheat from the chaf...

This is still a great forum, lets keep it that way.
Thanks to ShopBot for providing this space!!

Wayne

[tappsman]

I am a relatively new ShopBot owner, approximately 10 months, and one of the factors that helped me decide to purchase a ShopBot was this forum. That said, I understand Tim's concern about this forum becoming more social and less technical. I have been a member of many forums dealing with a variety of interests and in my opinion there are two things that kill a forum: 1. spammers, and 2. When the forum becomes overly social and members respond to each other on the forum rather than taking their messages private.

I don't think that the level of social messaging on this forum has become excessive but I think that Tim makes a good point to bring it to our attention. This forum is a very valuable asset, especially to us new bees, and I would hate to see it die because members don't want to wade through all of the social messaging.

[shoeshine]

Hey all,

I don't know when the "change" happened. So, grain of salt and all that.

I have only been participating on this forum for a few months, and I have to say that IMHO for the most part this forum has a pretty low incidence of garbage.

I have had wonderful and topical responses to my questions and have been happy to offer an occasional insight.

as anyone who participates in online forums of any stripe is aware, flame wars and OT noise are a constant problem. Unfortunately just the nature of the beast. As a community grows larger, the potential for abuse grows as well. This is offset by the potential to have a more diverse skillset and knowledgebase available to answer questions.

categorizing (and enforcement thereof by moderators) really helps.

There is nothing wrong with social posts, and in fact sometimes it can create opportunities for people to create lasting relationships, social or business. But it IS nice to be able to filter for those who just want tech info. a "lounge" is a great idea, it also allows a great thread stopper when things get OT. "Hey move this to the LOUNGE"...

another nice category is "newbies". This is where the total neophytes are paired with people who don't mind (or actually enjoy, I am one of them) answering the same dumb question many times. Sometimes new folk don't quite have the terminology down to frame their search in a way that gets them to the right archive. It is also wonderfully inclusive in that it creates a space where people who are just getting started don't have to fear learning, while creating a buffer for folk who don't want to have to deal with their stops and starts don't have to.

Anyway my $.02
chris

[rb99]

Sometimes when forums are changed they die off.

[robtown]

I'm terrible with faces and names, but I remember personalities. And I always love being able to put a face with a name of someone I know from here. That being said, the personality wouldn't shine through without the banter...

Give the gabbers a spot to gab, gently remind them to go gab there when they get off track in an informational thread, firm but fair...but I'm against some sort of formal "no socializing" rules... my 2 cents...

[butch]

Well, I'm an unknown to everyone on here, and unfortunatly probably never will get to meet anyone except through the forum. With the expert opinions and advice given here I probably have the least to complain and most thanks to give. I would hate to see the chatter end. I gives me a way of 'knowing' the people on here. If I'm busy, I don't read the flummery and clack, but if I'm looking for some 'social' intervention I enjoy reading it.
I still stick with my guns, this is the best forum and the one I read almost every day. I usually learn something new each day, or at least start thinking about something new.
I have attempted several new-to-me projects because of the expertise on here.

Morris - miss your posts. I still use your idea, although modified, on 'off the bed' joints. I've only made one set of dovetails on the SB, but I make a Knapp joint that makes my projects interesting. Because of those few posts, I did something I probably wouldn't have pursued and missed an opportunity to get many, many comments from customers and probably a few sales.

I guess I wouldn't want to see a 'newbie' section, as once you own a SB you feel you are part of the group. And aren't most questions 'newbie' for everyone? I would hate to see the new owners question missed by the people that best know the fix. Many of those newbies bring a new level of expertise and objectivity to the forum, besides the shopbot. But an OT or 'coffee shop' section probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

There - my 2cents.
I just want to thank everyone on here for their posts and expertise.
Thanks
Butch

[ken_rychlik]

I just want to say THANKS to all that have helped me on my shopbot adventure.

Kenneth

[myxpykalix]

Let me say this since a number of my comments were copied and comented on.
First, this is not meant to "one-up" any response.

When I first bought a shopbot I knew 0 about CNC and before i got mine I asked hundreds of questions which have been asked before. Some of those shopbotters who helped me asked the same questions when they were new and I am now answering those same questions for newbies that I asked.
That IS the way this works, that IS the way it is supposed to work. If this forum was not here how much more of a burden would Tech support have to handle?

In asking and answering questions you develop friendships with many, many people both off and on the forum, thru email and in person at the camps so when you see a post by them in here you answer with familiarity and friendship and kidding.

A good example is Joe Crumley, I've never met him, only talked to him via email and read his posts but do we risk losing his lifetime of experience and knowledge because a few "seldom contributors" don't like him selling his "post holes" here in the forum?
I for one enjoy the both the banter and the education Joe provides (so what if he's older then dirt, who cares?)lol

I need to remind some that they used the forum to sell their wares with no complaints so when others use it for their education or amusement it might look a bit hypicritical to complain.

And let me say again that I am one who is GUILTY of posting OT questions and posting sarcastic answers but it is only to those who I have come to know and have a friendship with who know that i only kid them (see Joe/dirt comment).

I think that the vast majority of my posts are ontopic and my answers are meant to help others and if you have to put up with a little humor once in a while well like my granddaughter says:
"Too Bad, So Sad"....

Again please don't read this as wanting to one-up or respond to anyone in particular but as with any gathering, you have a diversity of personalities and opinions and we all know the old saying about "opinions" don't we?

I have met a lot of people here who I consider friends (too many to name all) and if the price of their knowledge and friendship is having to deal with a bit of OT humor, thats a price I'M willing to pay.

[mitchjr]

I looked in the Shopbot Manual today and I could not find the section that states that WE MUST READ EVERY POST ON THE FORUM.........I simply read the post of interest and avoid the ones that are not related to my needs. This is not rocket science, but don't read it if you don't want to. I don't think that the Shopbot Police will come and repo your machine if they discover that you have not been reading the forum.

[jseiler]

I'd like people to agree to think through the "subject line" before starting a thread. I hate it when people post "I have a problem" as a subject line...how about "my blah blah is failing" or "having trouble with vcarve toolpath". Something descriptive. If I see another "you have to see this." post, I'll friggin scream loud enough to actually be physically heard where you live.


Tim subject is a perfect example of a subject line that makes sense and may be searched for later if you want that information.

[Gary Campbell]

I would like to expand on my earlier comments. As a relative newcomer (less than 3 years) to this forum, I have noticed what seems like a decline in quality of the posts. Maybe there are just more posts. Maybe there are just more opinions. Maybe the posters of the last 6 months of 2009 are different people than the posters of the 1st 6 months of 2007. Maybe we all just have more time to sit by the computer due to the economy. In any case, I agree with Tim, Robert and those who have been here long enough to know the difference.

I am one of those that use the forum to "sell my wares". Single line posts that are relevant and a request that all responses be off forum by PM. I had no intent to sell anything, but have had many requests for "goodies" that I have posted be offered for sale. Most of the time I post, it is to try and increase quantities to lower costs for interested parties. I sell far more $ of "accessories" to non ShopBot CNC owners than to ShopBotters. Shameless marketing, yes. Off topic or rambling posts, NO. Just ShopBot related items for sale. Just like the topic header reads.

When I ordered my machine I spent the 6 weeks of build and delivery time browsing the forum for information. I then used my notes of relevant topics to search for posts over the last 700 days. I learned everything I knew before my machine was delivered from those searches. Once my machine was delivered I practiced and tested my cutting strategies and honed them to my machine.

Here is one of my favorite posts from July 2007 from Brady Watson:

The PRS Standard OR Alpha both cut exceptionally well. Some people are never happy and ask a lot from a value priced tool or simply don't have enough 'seat time' on a CNC to know where the problem really lies. The thing to keep in mind with a CNC tool is, you can hand 10 people the same part to cut on the same model machine and you will get very different results from each. There are many factors involved with the 'chatter' issue...Speed, RPM, the method in which the part is being held down, cutting direction, stepdown values, and the geometry of the cutting bit ALL make a tremendous difference in cut quality in some materials. Equally important is the number of hours one has spent fine-tuning their cutting strategy, altering feeds, speeds and hold-down methods in the name of quality. One guy gets 'chatter'...and another gets perfect cuts. Like anything else worth doing well, the R&D it takes to create perfect cuts pays off big time. Anybody can just turn on a machine & run it...a CNC Operator makes adjustments along the way and records his findings to make life easier in the future when it comes time to cut that same material again.

In my 6yrs of 'Botting' I have learned that 99% of the problems, quality issues or glitches have been 100% my fault. The percentage has gone up even more since I have been running a PRS Alpha powered tool, since it's fine resolution eliminates some of the edge quality issues on older PRT tools with 1/4 stepping motor drivers. I compete with big iron & use my tool to make a living. If it wasn't up to the tasks I threw at it, it would have been sold long ago. (end quote)

That post, and many others from "back in the day" told "us newbies" to turn on the machine and practice, change our parameters and learn what works best on our machines. And to all of my "gurus" thank you for prompting me to learn on my own, rather than giving me the easy button with speeds and feeds. BTW, I just did a 30 day search for the names of my 5 "gurus" from 2007. 3 posts, period.

Remember, all experienced users are just that, experienced. Getcha some! Turn the machine on and practice. Get some scrap and practice. Basically just practice. Try some stuff. Break some bits. Practice. IT IS like riding a bycycle. And all the advice in the world cant make you learn anything until you do it for yourself. There is no easy button.

Crabby Old Man signing out.

[bcammack]

Pretty much everything said here so far describing forums and netiquette are unchanged from the days of FidoNet.

The customer base is changing and the economy has changed considerably over the past four years. This brings new personalities into the mix and causes old familiar ones to fall away.

We're transitioning from "propeller head" first-adopters to more conventional end-users. People that are less interested in how to build a clock and simply wanting to know what time it is.

The initiation of this thread is neither unique to Internet forums or unexpected. It simply reflects the natural ebb and flow of culture within on-line social bodies.

I know that I just automatically separate the wheat from the chaff as I read the forums every morning. It's habitual and based on acceptance of the nature of the environment. The old "objective vs subjective" thing.

I do know that the group will "reject" toxic members when they appear and the moderator will keep the peace by bouncing the inadvertent transgressions of the rules.

I personally am grateful for the mix of personalities and contributions to this forum. As somebody once said, "Nobody gets out alive." and so try to see the humor in life and enjoy all the various aspects of it.

It keeps me (comparatively) sane...

[jimmya]

I second what Brett said.

[bob_s]

I will go with those that say diversity is a good and natural part of this community. Obviously off topic, ie; political posts, should go elsewhere. I do believe that the string of posts about the economy and the difficult work environment that appeared last spring were a good thing. The idea that we are indeed a community, willing to share ideas, support, and even some offers of help with lease payments, is a testament to how good this forum is. Those posts where not off topic, they where relevant and necessary.
Those of us that had other training and professions will ask some stupid and repetitive comments. I guess that better use of the Google based board search, with it's advanced options, could stop some old questions from being asked anew. However that new and urgent question about vacuum or small bits might not seem like an old subject to the new,and somewhat terrified bot owner. I believe that this sort of change, caused by an increase in diversity , is a good thing.
Better picture capacity, possibly a "social comments area" if anyone wants it, are the only changes I would request. Along with a large "thank you" to the Shopbot staff and fellow owners who freely share their time,expertise,and experience here.
thanks
Bob

[kfitz]

Brett makes a lot of sense. I remember back in 2002 when it seemed like a week or more would go by without a single post. I'm just glad people are posting!

[rb99]

I feel since this thread there have been a lot less posts...

[chiloquinruss]

What part of laser scanners and rotary indexers and super vacuum systems and . . . are NOT technical? I'm a long time lurker, a one year owner, and I love this forum. I love the poking fun at one another and also throughly enjoy how quickly the friendly old timers jump in and help the newbies. This even after they answered the exact same question when asked by last months crop of newbies. I thank ShopBot for this forum and I also thank the thankless hours that others put into making this forum very meaningful to me personally. I love my bot and Aspire and of course all the help you all have given me. Russ

[paco]

I think that overall, the forum is pretty much stable in terms of content. In a particular point of view, it's actually the very same. For how long have some of us been complaining for an upgrade?! Just kidding. It may have evolved a bit toward a slightly different feel but not for much in my opinion. The user of post on a regular basis did changed and that normal and good.

I'm still following on my spare time (which I have less and less thanks to my tool) but at some point I had to quite some of those social activities that the great Internet world has to offer. I don't need the forum as I did before and I don't feel I can help much with all the "how-to", tutorials and readily volunteer available today. ShopBot is doing an ever better job with the control software and utilities, documentation, videos... same goes for their marvelous "partner" Vetric!

If I may, one of the best thing I learned in the last few years on all the forums I follow is to use Google rather than ask the other to do it (honest mistake here). To often I have asked how do I do this, where do I find that, do you think I should... to realize that I could just have made my homework for a similar result. It's not that you cannot ask someone else but... just try it, type some keywords and you'll be surprised. It is a reflex to develop and maintain though...

Keep the Talk ShopBot forum alive and Bot on!

[richard_saylor]

I've had my Buddy for two months and would have sold it by now if it weren't for the help I've received here. Whenever I post a question, I've received at least two relevant replys within the first half hour.
The social banter here is not unlike what I experience at my local coffee shop, albeit, a bit more tame.
I guess my point is that this is the most respectful and 'grownup' forum I've experienced and seems to be working. Let's not break it.

[rej]

i was selling a small cnc shark after i bought my bot.
there was a guy who immediately chimmed in and said my post must be a joke.
lets see- who was that who stuck a nose in my post with an off the wall comment?
think about it tim.

[tmerrill]

Robert,

You are correct, my post was very unprofessional. I guess it was a knee-jerk reaction to seeing a competitor's product advertised in a forum section titled "For Sale/Wanted - ShopBot-related items only".

Sorry I made you take it personal.

Good luck with your ShopBot!

Tim

[rej]

accepted,
thank you

[beacon14]

I'm guessing that I'm one of the old-timers that doesn't post quite as often, although I still read almost every post (I skim over most of the for-sale stuff). A few thoughts come to mind:

1. I'm busier than I used to be (hard to imagine).

2. I'm immersed in the learning curve for CabinetVision and so spend as much time on the CV forum as here. I think with 4 or 5 forums on different topics it could be a full time job just keeping up and replying to all those questions.

3. There are many more users and more active members than there used to be, and many questions can be answered by someone who hasn't been around for 5 or 10 years. That's a good thing.

4. Way back when we were all pioneers. We had to ask technical questions because we were all just figuring this stuff out. Now most savvy newbies can get a wealth of information by searching all those technical questions and answers from the old days.

5. Some levity and social input helps remind me that those are real people on their computers with personalities, strengths and weaknesses just like in a face-to-face setting. Any group of people is a social interaction, and this online community is no different (except maybe better than most other options).

6. I agree there are much better places to talk politics, religion, sports, etc, and I think most of us respect that.

7. An example. Not to name names but do the initials JJ mean anything? When Jack came on board he was as green as could be, eyes rolled when he asked questions but we gritted our teeth and helped him out as best we could. Within a few months he was answering questions, and a few months after that he was answering questions correctly! That's when I knew the torch had been passed. Now I respect Jack's input and find his humor to be refreshing and appropriate. Jack we've never met in person but I consider you and most others here my friend. Keep it coming!

8. Tim I'm glad you brought the subject up and I'm impressed as usual by the responses of the group. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that some of the old-timers are still around even though they haven't posted in a while.

All that is just my opinion, as always.

[erik_f]

Robert...I called you a troll, and I'm not sorry! HA HA HA! Just kidding...oh was this off topic, damn it! Hope you are enjoying your new SB.

[jporter]

I'll second that about Jack Jarvis. He is a real asset to people like myself and others who are just starting out and not only don't know what to do, but how to ask! Keep in mind some people, such as myself, just might not be aware of the research archives available when we first get into this new adventure.

My opinion is that this forum is a good one and has room for both technical, business type questions and maybe not so technical observations. I know that sometimes I have learned more from reading the topics I thought weren't of interest to me.

Please, let's just keep on with the way things are. Thanks, joe