Considering a ShopBot

[sagreen83]

I am seriously considering a ShopBot purchase and probably like everyone else who has purchased one, have delusions as to what it can and cant do. So, if you would be so kind as to answer some of the following questions.

1) What is the biggest misconception as to what the ShopBot is capable of?
2) What have you done with the shopbot that you would have never imagined?
3) How good is the digitizing probe, and the resulting copies?
4) How long do the bits last cutting 3/4 plywood and MDF for cabinets?
5) If you were to purchase again, would you purchase the ShopBot?
6) How is the after sale support? i.e. if you have questions, do you get answers?
7) Have you created your own metal table? And if so, what did it cost you?
8) Have you used the shopbot for both Wood and Metal, and if so how well?
9) Is it worth the time to do "one off" projects on the ShopBot?
10) Can you dimension lumber (hardwood) down from a previously dimensioned board? How well?
11) In a cabinet making shop, what percentage of your cuts are done with the ShopBot?
12) How successful have you been with Mortise and Tennons?
13) How successful have you been with dovetails? i.e. drawers?

I know this is a ton of questions! Sorry! But I know that answers to these questions will help not only me, but future purchasers as well!

Thanx,
Scott...

[artisan]

My 2 cents.....

1. That you can set it up and do "pushbutton" work immediately. It is a ROBOT and does only what you tell it to. It's usefullness will directly correspond to your knowledge of Cad and Cam software as well as common shop skills and how well you can translate one to the other.
2. I make molds and originals for 3D work from 2 inch slices of foam that are as large as 3 ft in diameter (so far).
3. The probe is great....albeit time consuming. I prefer drawing from scratch in Rhino, Corel or similar programs.
4. I don't cut enough cabinets to answer this accurately.
5. Absolutely
6. Top Notch...along with the forum, the best I've seen.
7. Bought Mine
8. Both, very well.
9. That's half of what I do. The shopbot is a perfect compliment for prototypes and one of a kind pieces.
10. Yes....within .005
11. does not apply
12. I use my table saw
13. I use a jig and router

Get in the game....D

[daveiannone]

Scott
I would just like to answer question 6 which I feel is the most important. I own a sheet metal fabrication business and a sign shop...I have bought many pieces of equipment over the years...I have spent MUCH MUCH more for some of that equipment and have NEVER seen support that would equal that of the Shopbot staff.. I couldn't be happier with the machine itself AND this Forum is more valuable than you can imagine. Most folks on here CAN'T wait to help someone that has a problem....I bought mine in 2002 and couldn't be happier with it.
Dave

[elcruisr]

1) That you will be able to waive your magic CNC wand and product will appear. It's going to be more about your skills as an operator than anything else.
2) Doing large scale production work, just started 80,000 parts for one customer.
3) Never used it!
4) Depends on the type and brand and if you use it at the right feeds and speeds. This is where your knowledge and skill become very important. Cutting cabinet parts I can get a 3/8 compresion spiral to run through 30 or more sheets per bit.
5) Yes
6) Excellent support
7) No, I don't have the time to mess with it. I need my tools up and running fast.
8) We cut wood and plastic only.
9) Only if the customer is willing to pay for it!
10) Why use a CNC machine to replace a table saw and planer? They are better at that job and alot faster.
11) We cut pre laminated plywoods into complete cabinet sets on a routine basis.
12) Again, I have other tools in my shop more suited for that.
13) Same as 12

[Brady Watson]

A1)That the machine will automatically read my mind and cut it out perfectly without me needing to do any thinking...all while I am basking in the sun on a tropical island sipping pink lemonade

A2) Making custom metal furniture on my SB plasma cutter
A3) The SB probe is excellent and easy to use once you do it one time. I find it a real livesaver for probing 2D profiles that are too large to fit on a flatbed scanner and too complex to measure accurately. 3D is excellent as well, although I wish the resulting file was editable...It's like a big 3D copier.
A4) Once you get the hang of feeds/speeds and what the machine likes, you can probably get 30-40 sheets of MDF out of a 3/8 spiral. Straight bits less.
A5) Absolutely. The best value for your dollar bar none.
A6) The best. For a small company, Shopbot does a great job with technical support...and the best part is, it's included in the price of your tool. This board is the best asset to support. We're like a big family here.
A7) I bought mine from SB...It was easier and quicker to do it this way rather than spec it out, wonder if I made it right, get the steel, drill all of those pesky 5/8" holes and then send it back out to be powder coated. I'm glad I bought mine...plus it's SB blue and matches the rest of the tool.
A8) I use my Colombo 5HP spindle for wood and foam...and some occasional copper. I'd like to try AL on it soon. I use my SB plasma cutter to cut steel, AL and SS. So far the thickest I have needed to cut has been 3/8" Mild and SS.
A9) Yes and No. If you are doing prototype work, then yes. You need to charge for it. Also custom signs fall into this category. You'll need to decide if the product will make enough $ for you to justify turning on the machine...I turn on my machine for just about anything that I can't buy for the same price or cheaper. (like standard molding etc)
A10) Yes...very well. But I still use my planer to plane and a jointer to joint.
A11) Currently N/A
A12) I do them on the table saw and router table. You CAN do them on the bot, but you will be limited on the board length. (probably about 4 feet on a standard table)
A13) Same as 12...You CAN use the bot for a lot of things...but when you need to cut straight narrow boards in expensive stock, it is cheaper to cut them on a table saw with less waste. A 1/4" bit is twice the kerf of an 1/8" saw blade.

-Brady

[ron brown]

I'll take a stab at a few of these questions:

1. I agree the ShopBot is not an "automated tool". It will only follow instruction. The instruction is limited by your knowledge.
2. My imagination is so vivid I can figure out a way to do most things with three axis and good registration.
3. As good as the editor of the parts file. The file CAN be edited with the proper program.
4. Longer than hand routing.
5. I don't think one can build as sophisticated a machine as the new "Alpha" for the money.
6. Look at the answers you have here. The Company support is good also.
7. I built 2 "special" tables not avilable from ShopBot. Good steel tables are not cheap to build.
8. It can be done. Even with an old router and end-mills one can cut non-ferrous metals.
9. One can spend a lot of time on "one-off" and prototype projects. Figure out if it is to be "fun" or pay.
10. Yes, a well tuned CNC machine can do a lot of things. The ONE use I have found that is not attainable almost any other way is flattening large table tops after glue-up and before sanding or (the way I like to finish) hand planning. The cut finish has no embedded grit like a belt or drum sanded piece to dull a hand-plane. For most projects dedicated machines are faster. I have also surfaced true "Raised panel" doors just surfacing and matching the styles and rails and leaving the raised panels untouched by the bit. This is something that would be impossible to do on any other type machine I am familiar with.
12 & 13. I own three dedicated morticers and built a single end tenoner. If the parts can be "standardized", I will run them on the ShopBot. For just a few, the dedicated machines make more sense. But, I have to run the dedicated machines. I can put parts in the ShopBot, hit the button and return when the program finnishes. In the interval I can assemble a cabinet door or fit up a cabinet.

I also have some "dovetail jigs". For about 4 drawers, it is faster to use the proper "jig". However, with the proper program and bits, a CNC machine can automate the process. It can also relieve the inside corners of the tails and allow easier assembly. On pesky, tricky materials one can slow and speed a CNC machine at the proper times and eliminate tear-out. One can also approach the cut with the proper cut direction of the bit or, from each side. These processes would be difficult, if even practice with hand-held routers and jigs.

A CNC is not best suited for all jobs. However, it can do more jobs well - if not efficiently, than any other one tool I am familiar with. It can also make jigs and fixtures to make the "manual" tools more efficient.


Ron

[fleinbach]

1) What is the biggest misconception as to what the ShopBot is capable of? Is there one?
2) What have you done with the shopbot that you would have never imagined? After using the Shopbot for 9 months now I have imagined so many more things that I am sure it will be capable of doing then I will ever have time to do.
3) How good is the digitizing probe, and the resulting copies? I used it twice so far and it made exact duplicates with ease.
4) How long do the bits last cutting 3/4 plywood and MDF for cabinets? I’ve only cut about 80 sheets of MDF so far and have not dulled a single bit. But that does not mean one bit cut all. I am a bit impatient and usually make a quick guess as to where to put my hold down screw and yes three times I was wrong and broke 3 bits. Luckily I guess they usually broke before they had a chance to get dull.
5) If you were to purchase again, would you purchase the ShopBot? I already did. I purchased my first one last August and just sold it and my new Alpha is being delivered Monday. I repurchased for 2 reasons 1. The first one I purchased was too small (I cut a lot of 61 X 121” panels for modular theater room walls. See my web site www.theaterrooms.com (http://www.theaterrooms.com) Danker, Palatine and Kim C where all built with my Shopbot) so I went from the Prt96 to the Alpha 120
6) How is the after sale support? i.e. if you have questions, do you get answers? Great. Always even on weekends if they there around.
7) Have you created your own metal table? And if so, what did it cost you? I am building it now. Parts $425.00 Labor: I’m not sure but my helper is drilling the necessary holes at $8.00 an Hour and has all of them done in the past week in between other jobs we are working on. But we are only drilling about 1/3rd of them as we are welding most of it. I’m not planning on powder coating it. I have a metal stand built for my radial arm saw in 1969 which has never been painted and still looks great to this day. Metal does not rust or change at all in a conditioned environment without the presence of moisture.
8) Have you used the shopbot for both Wood and Metal, and if so how well? Mostly MDF a few pieces of wood and no metal. Great
9) Is it worth the time to do "one off" projects on the ShopBot? Most of my work is one off’s, but as others have mentioned to justify one off’s efficiently you need to be very good with software. I am very proficient with several cad programs yet it can take longer to create the drawing and setup the cut file then it will take the Shopbot to make the cut. But on the other hand if I tried to reproduce the same piece with a hand router it would take far longer for most parts not to mention I can make more complex parts that would be, not impossible by hand but extremely time consuming.
10) Can you dimension lumber (hardwood) down from a previously dimensioned board? How well? I am about to dimension my stock of red oak and I imagine it will be far easier then the old method we’ve all used to straighten rough cut stock.
11) In a cabinet making shop, what percentage of your cuts are done with the ShopBot? NA
12) How successful have you been with Mortise and Tennons? NA
13) How successful have you been with dovetails? i.e. drawers? NA

[gerald_d]

Summary so far with my comments:

1) What is the biggest misconception as to what the ShopBot is capable of?

That you can set it up and do "pushbutton" work immediately. It is a ROBOT and does only what you tell it to. It's usefullness will directly correspond to your knowledge of Cad and Cam software as well as common shop skills and how well you can translate one to the other.

That you will be able to waive your magic CNC wand and product will appear. It's going to be more about your skills as an operator than anything else.

That the machine will automatically read my mind and cut it out perfectly without me needing to do any thinking...all while I am basking in the sun on a tropical island sipping pink lemonade

I agree the ShopBot is not an "automated tool". It will only follow instruction. The instruction is limited by your knowledge.

Is there one?

First studied this Forum before the purchase, and had no surprises after the machine arrived.

2) What have you done with the shopbot that you would have never imagined?

I make molds and originals for 3D work from 2 inch slices of foam that are as large as 3 ft in diameter (so far).
Doing large scale production work, just started 80,000 parts for one customer.
Making custom metal furniture on my SB plasma cutter .
My imagination is so vivid I can figure out a way to do most things with three axis and good registration.

After using the Shopbot for 9 months now I have imagined so many more things that I am sure it will be capable of doing then I will ever have time to do.

Engraving very small text

3) How good is the digitizing probe, and the resulting copies?

The probe is great....albeit time consuming. I prefer drawing from scratch in Rhino, Corel or similar programs.

Never used it!

The SB probe is excellent and easy to use once you do it one time. I find it a real livesaver for probing 2D profiles that are too large to fit on a flatbed scanner and too complex to measure accurately. 3D is excellent as well, although I wish the resulting file was editable...It's like a big 3D copier.

As good as the editor of the parts file. The file CAN be edited with the proper program.
I used it twice so far and it made exact duplicates with ease.

Have made own "probes" when necessary - none were permanent or "photogenic"

4) How long do the bits last cutting 3/4 plywood and MDF for cabinets?

I don't cut enough cabinets to answer this accurately.

Depends on the type and brand and if you use it at the right feeds and speeds. This is where your knowledge and skill become very important. Cutting cabinet parts I can get a 3/8 compresion spiral to run through 30 or more sheets per bit.
Once you get the hang of feeds/speeds and what the machine likes, you can probably get 30-40 sheets of MDF out of a 3/8 spiral. Straight bits less.

Longer than hand routing.

I’ve only cut about 80 sheets of MDF so far and have not dulled a single bit. But that does not mean one bit cut all. I am a bit impatient and usually make a quick guess as to where to put my hold down screw and yes three times I was wrong and broke 3 bits. Luckily I guess they usually broke before they had a chance to get dull.

Hard to give a definitive answer - Let's say that we do normally not factor in the cost of the bits when quoting a job. The cost of bits is a small percentage of turnover

5) If you were to purchase again, would you purchase the ShopBot?

Absolutely

Yes

Absolutely. The best value for your dollar bar none.

I don't think one can build as sophisticated a machine as the new "Alpha" for the money.

I already did. I purchased my first one last August and just sold it and my new Alpha is being delivered Monday. I repurchased for 2 reasons 1. The first one I purchased was too small (I cut a lot of 61 X 121” panels for modular theater room walls. See my web site www.theaterrooms.com (http://www.theaterrooms.com) Danker, Palatine and Kim C where all built with my Shopbot) so I went from the Prt96 to the Alpha 120

Havn't looked at the market for 4 years, and would probably shop around a little if I had to get another machine. Would also consider building more of the mechanical parts myself. I am not blindly sold on ShopBot.

6) How is the after sale support? i.e. if you have questions, do you get answers?

Top Notch...along with the forum, the best I've seen.

I own a sheet metal fabrication business and a sign shop...I have bought many pieces of equipment over the years...I have spent MUCH MUCH more for some of that equipment and have NEVER seen support that would equal that of the Shopbot staff.. I couldn't be happier with the machine itself AND this Forum is more valuable than you can imagine. Most folks on here CAN'T wait to help someone that has a problem....I bought mine in 2002 and couldn't be happier with it.

Excellent support

The best. For a small company, Shopbot does a great job with technical support...and the best part is, it's included in the price of your tool. This board is the best asset to support. We're like a big family here.

Look at the answers you have here. The Company support is good also.

Great. Always even on weekends if they there around.

On the two occasions that I've needed support (blown power supply and blown driver), the support has been disappointing. Requests at this Forum, and requests via e-mail were not answered in 24 hours. Telephone was also not answered on first two attempts. However, once telephone contact was achieved, the advice was good. The folk at ShopBot seem to hope that their customers will help each other on the Forum before calling the factory. The factory has not yet published a FAQ or Trouble-shooting guide. I know that I will get murdered for saying this, but there is a LOT of room for improvement in the support

7) Have you created your own metal table? And if so, what did it cost you?

Bought Mine

No, I don't have the time to mess with it. I need my tools up and running fast.
I bought mine from SB...It was easier and quicker to do it this way rather than spec it out, wonder if I made it right, get the steel, drill all of those pesky 5/8" holes and then send it back out to be powder coated. I'm glad I bought mine...plus it's SB blue and matches the rest of the tool.

I built 2 "special" tables not avilable from ShopBot. Good steel tables are not cheap to build.

I am building it now. Parts $425.00 Labor: I’m not sure but my helper is drilling the necessary holes at $8.00 an Hour and has all of them done in the past week in between other jobs we are working on. But we are only drilling about 1/3rd of them as we are welding most of it. I’m not planning on powder coating it. I have a metal stand built for my radial arm saw in 1969 which has never been painted and still looks great to this day. Metal does not rust or change at all in a conditioned environment without the presence of moisture.

Built own steel table, but the costs were hidden under another larger project. My current guess is is under $500 material and 20 hours labour if welded

8) Have you used the shopbot for both Wood and Metal, and if so how well?

Both, very well.

We cut wood and plastic only
.
I use my Colombo 5HP spindle for wood and foam...and some occasional copper. I'd like to try AL on it soon. I use my SB plasma cutter to cut steel, AL and SS. So far the thickest I have needed to cut has been 3/8" Mild and SS.

It can be done. Even with an old router and end-mills one can cut non-ferrous metals.

Mostly MDF a few pieces of wood and no metal. Great

Wood only. Have dedicated metal-working machines

9) Is it worth the time to do "one off" projects on the ShopBot?

That's half of what I do. The shopbot is a perfect compliment for prototypes and one of a kind pieces.

Only if the customer is willing to pay for it!

Yes and No. If you are doing prototype work, then yes. You need to charge for it. Also custom signs fall into this category. You'll need to decide if the product will make enough $ for you to justify turning on the machine...I turn on my machine for just about anything that I can't buy for the same price or cheaper. (like standard molding etc)

One can spend a lot of time on "one-off" and prototype projects. Figure out if it is to be "fun" or pay.
Most of my work is one off’s, but as others have mentioned to justify one off’s efficiently you need to be very good with software. I am very proficient with several cad programs yet it can take longer to create the drawing and setup the cut file then it will take the Shopbot to make the cut. But on the other hand if I tried to reproduce the same piece with a hand router it would take far longer for most parts not to mention I can make more complex parts that would be, not impossible by hand but extremely time consuming.

We do plenty of one-offs - because we are proficient in CAD and can program very quickly.

10) Can you dimension lumber (hardwood) down from a previously dimensioned board? How well?

Yes....within .005

Why use a CNC machine to replace a table saw and planer? They are better at that job and alot faster.
Yes...very well. But I still use my planer to plane and a jointer to joint.

Yes, a well tuned CNC machine can do a lot of things. The ONE use I have found that is not attainable almost any other way is flattening large table tops after glue-up and before sanding or (the way I like to finish) hand planning. The cut finish has no embedded grit like a belt or drum sanded piece to dull a hand-plane. For most projects dedicated machines are faster. I have also surfaced true "Raised panel" doors just surfacing and matching the styles and rails and leaving the raised panels untouched by the bit. This is something that would be impossible to do on any other type machine I am familiar with.

I am about to dimension my stock of red oak and I imagine it will be far easier then the old method we’ve all used to straighten rough cut stock.

Is "dimension" a verb?

11) In a cabinet making shop, what percentage of your cuts are done with the ShopBot?

does not apply

We cut pre laminated plywoods into complete cabinet sets on a routine basis.

Currently N/A

Not Applicable

12) How successful have you been with Mortise and Tennons?

I use my table saw

Again, I have other tools in my shop more suited for that.

I do them on the table saw and router table. You CAN do them on the bot, but you will be limited on the board length. (probably about 4 feet on a standard table)

I own three dedicated morticers and built a single end tenoner. If the parts can be "standardized", I will run them on the ShopBot. For just a few, the dedicated machines make more sense. But, I have to run the dedicated machines. I can put parts in the ShopBot, hit the button and return when the program finnishes. In the interval I can assemble a cabinet door or fit up a cabinet.

Not Applicable

13) How successful have you been with dovetails? i.e. drawers?

I use a jig and router

Again, I have other tools in my shop more suited for that.

Same as 12...You CAN use the bot for a lot of things...but when you need to cut straight narrow boards in expensive stock, it is cheaper to cut them on a table saw with less waste. A 1/4" bit is twice the kerf of an 1/8" saw blade.

Also have some "dovetail jigs". For about 4 drawers, it is faster to use the proper "jig". However, with the proper program and bits, a CNC machine can automate the process. It can also relieve the inside corners of the tails and allow easier assembly. On pesky, tricky materials one can slow and speed a CNC machine at the proper times and eliminate tear-out. One can also approach the cut with the proper cut direction of the bit or, from each side. These processes would be difficult, if even practice with hand-held routers and jigs.

Not Applicable