Archive through April 19, 2001

[allexscgn@msn.com]

Hi, my name is robert and I'm the CNC operator at ABC Bird Toys. I was asked to post this information for the benifit of other companies that own a Shopbot.---Ok, we have tried just about every bit there is for the shopbot pr 96(rack and pinion) and we finally found it. The best one ever!!. This bit is made of solid carbide and made in France, it's polished to perfection(you can almost see your reflection in it), it costs $22.50 for a 1/4" wide by 1" cutting length. Over-all length is 2". This bit is called a belin(baylan) "spiral o". It is what the $100,000 machines use. So why is it the best? You can run your Shopbot at full speed and still maintain the most incredible cut! The company that sells these bits is called multicam(multicam.com). We were told by them that they start these bits at 150+ inches per minute with a 3 1/4 hp spindle motor @ 19,000 rpms. IF YOU BUY ONE OF THESE SPIRAL O'S TEST IT OUT FIRST. THE KNOWLEDGE WE OFFER IS FROM OUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND IS ONLY CONSIDERED AS A GUIDELINE!! THIS IS THE BEST PART ABOUT THE BIT; IT LEAVES A SUPER CLEAN EDGE ON HARD AND SOFT WOODS, EJECTS THE CHIPS TREMENDOUSLY FAST, AT SUPER FAST SPEED RATES; ALMOST NO NEED FOR SANDING. We will not use anything else for cutting. WE CUT POPLAR AND PINE RIGHT NOW @ 84" PER MINUTE, WITH 2 PASSES @ 1/2" EACH. WE ARE CURRENTLY CUTTING APPROX. 1,107 WOOD PARTS A DAY. THANK YOU BELIN!!!

[bit breaker]

I downloaded the whole pdf catalog "464Kbytes" and they have no listing for the Spiral "O" in 1" CEL .
Nor does the catalog have pricing :-(
Guess we'll have to call them, eh ?

Got a part number ?

Thanks

[Gerald D]

See:

http://www.belin-y.com

[bitbreaker]

Cest manifique ... NOT !

There is less info at that site than the multicam site.

The net is supposed to offer immediate informazione, not a 2 week delay for a catalog that will probably still require a call for pricing.

Par le vous France ?

[Gerald D]

Sorry bitbreaker, I didn't mean that you would find your specific questions answered at the belin-y site. Some of us "ShopBotters" do not live in America, and we cannot use your mail order systems. The Belin site is interesting for me because their head office is 50km from a village that I visit twice a year - also I will call them on Monday to see if they have a stockist in my country.

My very cryptic message was meant to compliment Robert's initial post on his new thread where he said: "THANK YOU BELIN!!!". During my www search, it appeared that Multicam is not the sole Belin distributor in the USA.

[bitbreaker]

No worrys mate :-)

I'm not mift, just insatiable ;-)

I need more immediate input.

it's an immediate gratification issue.

IMHO both sits need a bit of rework

[anderboat@aol.com]

Try this campany in the US WWW.robbjack.com
I use there three flute ball end solid carbide in several sizes for woodworking. There catalog is down loadabe which contains loads of useful info.

[birdsofplay]

I see where the BC Bonz folks have 6 MultiCam machines. Wheew !
They are the ones that do the Dino kits for sale at the Malls in Planet Earth places et al.

Baltic Birch ply and several sizes in nicely package products.
They even have a 12' Raptor for $1500 !

Guess I'm just a Piker

[allexscgn@msn.com]

Robert Tull- ABC Bird Toys Inc. Sorry I haven't answered your responses, we've been busy!! The bit you are looking for is a belin bit "spiral o". The bit cost $22.50 on sale through skarie(1-410-728-6000/ maryland). I was told that the patent was allowed to expire on this bit, so now it is still fabricated in France and multi cam puts their name on it. The item number is a 13635 belin "spiral o". You really have to try these bits to see for yourself. It is extremely quiet & precisely engineered for production cutting; and the extremely high polish finish allows for greater chip removal and less wear. By the way, multicams number is 1-972-929-4070. If you call them, they will direct you to the nearest dist. I gave you the info above because skarie has them on sale. Average retail is $25.00 per bit. Our average use is about(approx.) 3,000 wood parts before we change to new. If you have any questions you can e-mail me direct @ allexscgn@msn.com (mailto:allexscgn@msn.com).

[JIM S]

JUST CALLED TIM AT SKARIE AND ORDERED UP A 1/4" SPIRAL O BIT FOR $25.00 PLUS S&H (UPS). THEY ALSO HAVE 1/8" IN S.O. IM ANXIOUS TO CUT 3000 PARTS WITH 1 BIT !

[Allexscgn@msn.com]

Robert Tull-ABC Bird Toys Inc. They truly are state of the art bits. But I'm shure the sales staff at Skarie told you that. We were told, that if they were manufactured in the US, these bits would cost upwards of $80.00 or so. Oh, by the way, I posted that we usually cut about 3,000 parts before we change to new. Please keep in mind that our parts are not very big(about 4" in diameter). Just thought you should know.

[Gerald D]

Robert, you have given us a hang of a lot of useful information! Cutting speed, depth of cut, types of material, life, supplier, price, manufacturer, phone numbers, etc., etc.

(Don't get nervous now that somebody will come back to you and argue that they did not get 3,000 parts per bit!)

If there is a prize going for the most information, gained from personal experience, shared into the shortest space, then I would like to nominate Robert Tull! (Nomination may be withdrawn if Belin bits are a dud - LOL)

[david@rams-software.com]

For everyone looking for that great bit I believe you wiil get the same results by using an Onsurd 63-725. This a .25" carbide single flute spiral. What makes it cut plastic, MDF, metal and almost everything so well is the small spirals that are behind the cutting bit. I have personally cut MDF at .5" deep at a feedrate of 2.4 inches a second with a 3.25 hp Perske. The noise level is 1/10th of other bits. It cuts Arcylic at 1.5" sec and leaves a polished edge (provided you use a climbing cut). You can purchase the bits from Hartlauer Bits. I think thier number is 1-800-644-bits

[allexscgn@msn.com]

Robert Tull-ABC Bird Toys Inc. The onsrud bits you mention above are excellent bits. In fact, there are very few differences between the onsrud spiral o and the belin spiral o. We have tried both the onsrud spiral o and the belin spiral o. without much difference. We do prefer the belin because of the high polish on the bit. It seems to eject more chips(slight amount) than the onsrud. I do agree with David Ford though. Try the Onsrud; you may like it better than than the Belin spiral o. Also I think it's important to mention that we only mill wood; pine and poplar. So our experience is strictly based upon this material.

[ron_cleaver]

I just checked the catalog and noticed that both Onsrud and Belin have upcut and downcut bits. I gather from other messages I've read here that the upcut bits would be better when using the dust skirt.

(I just ordered my ShopBot last Friday (2/23) and I'm getting prepared for delivery in about a month.)

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Upcuts clear better for sure, but you should also consider how you want the finished edge to turn out.

I use an upcut in one process where I'm doing a long a deep vein in hard maple. I'm not too conserned about the condition of the top edge of the cut.

I do pocketing in other areas in quilted maple where an upcut or a straight bit would be blowing chunks of wood off the edge continually. Here a downcut spiral bit leaves a nice clean edge with nothing to clean up.

If you are more worried about the bottom of your work, then the opposite applies. If you are cutting sheet stock, then a compression spiral might be in order.

Question for the group: I wonder how using a compression spiral in blind pocket would work. Hog primarily with the upcut tip then finish cut at full depth so that the pocket edge is being cut with the downcut portion.

[allexscgn@msn.com]

Robert Tull- ABC Bird Toys Inc.- Check this news out about bits. It may be hepfull to shopbotters.
http://www.multicam.com/main/mat/news.htm click on router maitenence november 2000. It's in PDF form so you'll need adobe acrobat for this!! Happy cutting

[farly]

I called the Belin rep. in my area and he sent me a sample of the Belin "spiral o " bit. Also he told me that REECE SUPPLY in Norcross,GA has them on the shelf. They have Part No. 13635 (1/4 dia.
x 5/8 cut length) for list price of $28.35 (Discount price available). They also have Part No. 13635A (1/4 dia. x 1 1/2 cut length for $36.50
(Again discount available).
Reese Supply's phone number is (770)326-7920 and
ask for Russell Moss.
The bit has a deep single flute with several
shallow spirals behind the flute an is highly
polished. Just received it haven't tried it yet
I will report on it as soon as I try it.
Also PriceCutters.com on the web has $9.99 upcut
spiral bits in their special deals area (3 to an order). Hope this helps.

Charlie

[donna@shopbottools.com]

Hi Guys,

The companies listed here are some that Dave came up with. I hope it helps!


CNC Router Bit Supplier Information

Many companies manufacture router bits suitable for CNC use, and a few are listed below (this list is not exhaustive). For any given application the suitability, longevity, and price of bits from different manufacturers can vary greatly. Bit manufacturers can offer advice on selecting bits and feed rates suitable for your specific application. Bits with unusual diameters and/or cutting lengths and bits designed for specific applications may only be available from certain suppliers (so it helps to have several bit catalogs on hand when searching for the bit you want). Keep in mind that not all manufacturers sell direct, so you may need to call the manufacturer to get the name of a distributor near you. Local distributors listed below serve the North Carolina area.
To produce your part with the lowest possible cost-per-part, identify the appropriate bit size for your application, then experiment with different bit types, different suppliers, and different feed rates. The right combination for your application can increase the usable life of your router bits while improving the speed and quality of your cuts.

Manufacturer/Distributor: Local Distributor:

Onsrud Cutter C R Onsrud Inc.
800 liberty Drive P.O. Box 419, 867 S. Main St.
Libertyville, IL 60048 Troutman, NC 28166
(847) 362-1560 (router bit selection advice) (704) 528-4528
(847) 362-5028 fax (704) 528-6170 fax
www.onsrud.com [Contact Scott Feimster at 528-1137 for Onsrud cutter advice]

Whiteside Machine Co. Burnette Ltd. / Carbide Saws Inc.
4506 Shook Road 701 Garrison Ave.
Claremont, NC 28610 High Point, NC 27260
1-800-225-3982 1-800-578-7197 or 1-888-882-6838
(828) 459-1252 fax (336)-882-7912? Fax

Velepec Tools Wesley Tools Ltd
346 Maple Avenue
Westbury, NY 11590
1-800-397-6867
(516) 338-5555
(516) 338-4706 fax
Contact: Bill Wiggington (sales)
Send in old tool when you buy a new one and get 20% off order

FS Tool Corporation Burnette Ltd. / Carbide Saws Inc.
210 South Eighth Street 701 Garrison Ave.
P.O. Box 510 High Point, NC 27260
Lewiston, NY 14092-0510 1-800-578-7197 or 1-888-882-6838
1-800-387-9723 (336)-882-7912? Fax
(905) 475-0347 fax

Amana Tools


Jesada Tools
310 Mears Boulevard
Oldsmar. FL 34677
1-800-531-5559
(813) 891-6160

Southeast Tool, Inc.
P.O. Box 5326 – 124 1st Ave South
Conover, NC 28613
1-877-465-7012 toll free order line
(828) 465-7012
(828) 465-7013 fax
Router@southeasttool.com (mailto:Router@southeasttool.com)
www.southeasttool.com

Vortex Tool Company Inc
5605 E. Jelinek Avenue
Schofield, WI 54476
1-800-355-7708
(715) 355-7707
(715) 355-7353 fax
www.vortextool.com

Freud, Inc. Call 1-800-472-7307 for name of nearest distributor
218 Field Avenue Raleigh/Durham area: Specialty Tool Service
High Point, NC 27264 2420 Atlantic Avenue
1-800-472-7307 Raleigh, NC 27604
(910) 434-3171 (919) 833-5903
Feudinc@aol.com (mailto:Feudinc@aol.com)

North American Products call
1180 Wernsing Road
P.O. Box 647
Jasper, IN 47547-0647
1-800-634-TOOL
(812) 482-2000
1-800-457-7458
www.naptools.com

Guhdo call
1135 JVL Industrial Ct.
Marietta, GA 30066
1-800-544-8436
(770) 592-4766
(770) 592-1714 fax
Guhdo@aol.com (mailto:Guhdo@aol.com)
www.guhdo.com

Bosch / S-B Power Tool Company Call 1-877-267-2499 for name of nearest distributor
4300 West Peterson Avenue Raleigh/Durham area: Specialty Tool Service
Chicago, IL 60646-5999 2420 Atlantic Avenue
1-877-Bosch99 (1-877-267-2499) Raleigh, NC 27604
www.boschtools.com (919) 833-5903

Micro 100, Inc. call
875 N. Virgil Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90029
1-800-421-8065
(323) 668-0491
(323) 668-0183 fax
Info@micro100.com (mailto:Info@micro100.com)
www.micro100.com

Various brands Woodworker’s Supply (Nationwide; 24hrs/day, 7 days/week)
1108 North Glenn Road
Casper, Wyoming 82601
1-800-645-9292
1-800-853-WOOD (1-800-853-9663)