Advice on preparing line art for inlay or v-carve....

[john_l]

I have seen some amazing work posted here in regards to both inlay and V-carving and I would like some advice.

I want to make a carved or in-lay plaque (or possibly even a cigar case) for a buddy of mine that owns the real life version of the the racing yacht pictured here. I picture the actual design to end up sized anywhere from about 6" to 8" high depending on what I make for him.

I have the vector drawing of this in .dxf format, but I am quite stymied as to how to approach a toolpathing strategy that will work and also not look a mess with this "line-only" type of artwork.

If anyone has ideas or help to offer... thanks very much.
7774

[rcnewcomb]

This PDF file from the Vectric forum may help for the inlay technique.
V-Carve Inlay Technique (http://www.vectric.com/forum/download/file.php?id=13987)

You will need to turn single lines into closed vectors that can be v-carved. To turn a single line (such as one of the blue lines) into a set of vectors that can be V-Carved:
1) select the line
2) choose the offset tool
3) offset outward by a small amount (0.05" maybe?)
4) select both vectors
5) join vectors with a line
6) close vectors with a line

Others may have faster/better methods.

[bcondon]

I have been looking through this doc a few weeks ago and planned to do a simple start inlay,
about 5" in side into a 12"x12" to get a feel for the technique.

The doc does not mention an offset unless I missed it...


The question I have is a 60 degree V cutter better that a 45 degree cutter. The only reason for the question is that the edges would be steeper (faster into the material)?

Should be an interesting learning experience!

[adrianm]

I've done some yachts in the past by just doing a simple on-line profile cut to about 2mm depth with a 60 degree bit.

Looks really nice on a six inch or so box. Especially if you dark stain/paint the cut area and then sand it off on the flat section.

[ken_rychlik]

If he is a REALLY GOOD FRIEND have James Booth make you a 3d file to run. You can find him on the vectric site.

Kenneth

[bleeth]

John: If I were to do this as an inlay I would select the major elements such as the hull, keel and rudder, mast, boot stripe, portlights, and sails and do them as an inlay using their outlines. Then for the fine line work such as the stays, shrouds, and sail lines I would fine engrave them with a low degree engraving bit. 60 would be max and I would experiment with a 30 or even sharper. I would do a couple coats of clear coat after the inlay work was done, then pocket work and fill, and then engrave, ink, fine sand, and top coat. This will be "hot"
The logo and numbers might be OK with v carving but could also be nice with pocketing and epoxy fill.

Kenneth has a good point about James Booth also.

Dave

[billp]

John,
I've done a few of these in the past and the best bit I found for tight, thin lines was the Dremel
# 9999 carbide bit.It has a 1/8" shank so you'll need an insert/adapter for your router/spindle. The tip is approximately 15 degrees, and I wouldn't go much deeper than .015". The accompanying picture shows one where I just broke through the outer veneer layer in birch plywood and then stained it.
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[john_l]

As expected, all great advice folks. Thanks.

Just as I have found with many of these autocad drawings.. there are lots of single lines (open vectors). On this piece, there are hundreds. I am going to experiment with thickening some of the main elements with offsets (outlines) and see if I can get it to be a little more cnc friendly.

Just carving on the line segments at a fixed depth may end up being be the best plan here. For me anyway, cause I have to keep busy on the paying jobs.

I just started fooling with it.. I can say that Aspire handles something like this surprisingly well. I have another program that cost thousands and it will bog and crash with open vector artwork like this sometimes.

James Booth is certainly a very talented fella. If this were a sellable project, I would surely look into hiring his services and maybe try a full 3d type or relief style project if he could work from this art.

[john_l]

Those shots reminded me immediately of "Christmas Story". Merry Christmas Jaqueline and Angus.

[billp]

John,
Open vectors usually work better with this many lines! If you "close" too many of them you'll wind up with lots of little triangles,and other geometric shapes, and in the size range you speak about above they will be SO small that if they ARE closed they will tear out as soon as you complete the perimeter of each shape! Leaving the shapes "open" is similar to using very small tabs/bridges and you can then get away with having a lot more detail.In fact you may wind up wanting to 'break' some of the lines on your drawing to allow this process to work throughout the piece...

[john_l]

I got you Bill. I just discovered the very same as you stated. Carving on the open lines seems the way to go. It looks pretty nice anyway. I think I am going to go through in detail and remove some mine though, just to speed up the project. It seems the closest I am going to get with time alowed and resorces available to me is just what you did in the picture above. I previewed it with a 60degree V... next I am gonna make a 15 degree dremel tool and see what that looks like.

I don't know what happened in that last post of mine above.. sorry. But Merry Christ anyway Angus.. hahaha.

[bcondon]

Bill P,

In reading your post, you said that you can work with open vectors... I thought you could only use closed vectors with Partworks etc... Can you make NC toolpaths with open vectors?

Can you explain? (I think I missed an entire world!)

I have been playing with inlays (which I learned at one of the camps!) recently and it is cool to have a college age son say "WOW!"

[billp]

Bob,
It's been awhile since I have used Partworks, but I think the trick was to go to "2D profiles" and in that sub menu choose "on" which would allow you to machine along that particular open vector. Maybe someone who uses the program regularly can correct me if I'm wrong (?)

[bill.young]

Bob,

I'm pretty sure that you could cut "ON" open vectors in all versions of PartWorks, but the recent versions also let you cut Inside and Outside...that's how the Extruder Virtual Tool works.

Bill

[kfitz]

John,

For some added zing, you might want to try Squiggling the vectors. It will make the engraving look less like it was done by a machine. You can DL a free trial here:
http://www.signaturecad.com/products/squiggle/trial.htm
I don't know what the limitations of the trial are, but it will give you an idea of what you can do.

[curtiss]

Might be off topic, but is there a way to convert a PDF file to a jpg without simply printing it off and then scanning the print to a jpg ??

thanx

[cnc_works]

Any screen capture utility including the one built into Windows would allow you to copy the screen or window of your choice and paste it into a drawing program (including Paint) for saving as a jpg. The Swiss army knife of programs, Corel Draw, has a flexible one built into it and there are several free ones as well. Here's a link to details.
http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-screen-capture-utility.htm

Donn

[adrianm]

It's always worth trying to import a PDF directly into PartWorks/Aspire as, if the picture information is in vector format, it will import it with everything intact.

I've got a lot of engraving patterns that I import this way.

[john_l]

Bill P - In the pic that you posted, did you start with a sealed birch panel and then the sealer kept your stain from soaking into the face when you stained the engraving?

Regarding my gift, I decided to go with a wall clock. I found an after christmas sale at Pier One and bought a clock for the wrough iron suround and the clock works. I am making a replacement engraved/ V carved face.

I am a little worried that I have made a wrong turn though. I have already V carved and engraved my unfinished mahogany wood clock face. Looking at the fine detail of this carving, I am a little worried about the "spray paint, sand-surface, then stain/seal" method.

Any more finishing tips appreciated.

Kevin - I didnt see your squiggle post until it was too late for this one. But that looks cool!

Dave R - I think I have your finishing recomendation out of alignment now too.

Any tips?

[billp]

John,
Correct. The sealer protects the uncut areas, and the stain can only penetrate in the cut grooves.Gel stains seem to work well for this application because their viscosity gives you good color without having to worry about the stain "bleeding" underneath the sealed surface since it's only there for a short time before being wiped off.
In this case where you have already made your cuts before sealing the piece you can still probably go back and use a very thin file, or folded sandpaper, to clean out the cuts. This may even give you some interesting effects.

[john_l]

Thanks Bill, I just did a little test on a scrap of the wood I used. It seems the cut sections are taking more stain than the sanded surface anyway. I am gonna let this test dry and see if this might just be enough contrast.

Thanks!

[john_l]

Just wanted to follow up real quick. I ended up making a clock as the gift. I actually found a wall clock at Pier 1 that had a neat wrought iron surround and was After-Christmas discounted down to $30 from a $79 asking price before. So I bought that and took it all apart. I made a replacement face and put it back together. I'm pretty happy, just wanted to show you guys. Thanks again for all of the advice! I'm really glad to be part of this forum.

[john_l]

The pics...


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7777

I did the entire face with a 60degree v bit. I profiled on the lines and limited the depth to .035 for the boat and I V Carved the rest. Spray painted the whole face flat black, sanded it down on the surface, and then stained and applied satin polyurethane.

[englert]

Reply to questio by Curtis:

Using Windows standard files only:

Press the Prnt Scrn key to capture the entire display or Alt-Prt Scrn to capture the open or active window.

Open Paint. (Start>Programs>Accessories>Paint)
Paste (Ctrl+V) the captured image into Paint.
There is a cropping tool in Paint, so you can draw a rectangle around the desired image.
Then copy (Ctrl+C) the selected image to the clipboard.
Start a new Paint file, no need to save the current file.
Paste(Ctrl+V)the cropped image into the new file.
Use File-Save As to save it as a .jpg image.

Fairly easy at no additional cost.

Dennis

[butch]

That turned out great. Thanks for posting the final results.
Butch

[billp]

John,
Very nice job! Particularly at the clew of the sail where you have all those lines coming together ! There are MANY other sailboat classes out there, go get em !