Jamboree 2006 Speaker contest

[billp]

At the recent New Jersey Camp Shopbot Bill Young introduced all of us to "Sound Pads" which are remarkeable devices that can turn almost anything into a speaker. He brought a few "speakers" he had made out of plywood, Lexan, and styrofoam (among other items..). They were SO well received that Bill suggested we sponsor a "contest" at next April's Shopbot Jamboree to see just how ingenious Shopbotters really are. The "rules" (if you can call them that...) are posted on the blog site- http://www.campshopbot.blogspot.com/
SO I decided to try out the concept and came up with the following; which are a gift for a few marine biologist friends in Maine. They are carved out of blue styrofoam, and coated with the Sculpt Nouveau "Pewter "A"" coating. They measure 32 inches long, 8 inches wide, and 12 inches deep, and they sound GREAT.
Obviously you will have to do your own "R/D" to determine what will be the best medium, and size for your project, but for under $20 (!) these speakers are incredible.
A note; in addition to learning about which materials are most appropriate you'll also find that some music works better than others depending on your choice of "style". In the case of the couple below I've learned that they seem to sound best when "topical" music is played; such as songs by Bob Marley and the Whalers (sic), Whalin Jennings (sic) and the all time B.B. King classic
"The Krill is gone"......
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[gerald_d]

Hey, we have lots of "Right Whales" down here, but no Soundpads. I suppose I must be content to walk down to the beach and listen to the real thing - some locals moan that the whales keep them awake!

[mikejohn]

For stereo you will need a right and a left whale.

[gerald_d]

A local lad who went over to the dark side, Dave Matthews, sings:

Chorus:
She walks these hills in a Long Black Veil
She visits my grave when the night winds wail
Nobody knows, nobody sees, nobody knows but me

[Brady Watson]

"Yer Krill havin' fun, and your Krill the one..." LOL! couldn't resist...but seriously...

These soundpads are REALLY slick. They sound fantastic (depending on what you use as a speaker itself..IE-whale), they are cheap, and best of all you WILL be running all over the house and shop (literally like you were 8 again!) looking for materials to test it out on...some of you will even be looking in the refrigerator for the 'perfect medium'...trust me.



-B

[jsfrost]

You can find the Right whale here http://www.abc.net.au/oceans/whale/char.htm, but no Left whale.

[jeff_rowley]

Wow, those are incredible! I'm so excited by these, I'm running over to Target at lunch to pick up a pair of the SoundPads to play with. Did you use only a single SoundPad per whale? Does size matter with the speaker material? These are quite large and so are the other pictures of them mounted to plywood, plexiglass, etc. Also, where would one get the coating (or similar) that you used?

In your opinion could you just replace existing surround sound speakers with these? Seems like you could come up with some incredibly decorative replacements for the ugly black boxes currently hanging on the walls. Excellent work!

[billp]

Jeff,
Yes, it's one pad per whale (or a pair per this pod...).It's hard to answer the specific question about size/sound as we are all still learning just what they are capable of. It does seem that the more your substrate can vibrate, the better the sound, so thinner walls will usually give a better result than something heavy such as MDF...
I think these would work very well for the surround sound systems, as "filler" speakers, but maybe not as your "mains".
The coating is from Sculpt Nouveau (www.sculptnouveau.com (http://www.sculptnouveau.com)) and it's been covered on the Forum a number of times so do a search for all the info...

[billp]

I posted this earlier, but it somehow seems to have "disappeared".
Let's not forget; Roberta Flack's -"Krilling Me Softly"

[gerald_d]

Pink Floyd - Another Pad in the Whale?

Bill, you had Roberta having her exhaust deflected over here. (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=27&post=29550#POST29550)

[danhamm]

Many "porpoise's" on a visit to my "chillun"
recently, I became the "butt" of his experiments
with the "pad", using his facilities I became aware of a stirile, ceramic kinda surround sound
and it tickled my fancy...fun, fun,fun...

[mikejohn]

Anyone know where to buy these pads on this side of the Atlantic?
..............Mike

[gerald_d]

What are you smoking there on your lunch break Dan?

Mike, wail the producer, Sonic Impact (http://www.si-5.com/info/homePage.html), and ask them.

[Brady Watson]

This is one whale of a thread...You guys are krilling me...Funny how the term for defining a group of whales is the word 'POD' !

Last night I was messing around with the sound pads again and instead of using my amplified computer speakers or sound deck to power them, I hooked them up to a little walkman/cd player, the SI T-amp and a cardboard computer box...That little amp powered by 8AA batteries really CRANKS! You guys really need to try these things out! Definately spring for the T-amp...everything is really cheap and you can get the amp & pads on Amazon.

-B

[bill.young]

Mike,

Think Geek has them and ships internationally.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/audio/6bd8/

[marshawk]

C'mon guys...clam up! Sorry for being a crab, but I'm getting a haddock.

Ahhh...the contest is at the Jamboree. I can't wait to get with the buoys and gulls to sea what they have created.

I was gonna carp a beach scene, but there was too much sanding, so I waved it off...

(I better clam up before I get whaled...)

[marshawk]

Just one more thought...

If you miniaturize the whales and mount them on a headset, is that an "I-POD"?

(It wasn't that bad, so don't "blubber")

[benchmark]

Mike

Think Geek Charge $39.98 for 2 and $50 shipping to your part of the world

Paul

[jeff_rowley]

Well, I ran over to Target and found out the difference between having them on their website and not having them in the store. Oh well, guess I won't be able to play with these tonight. Will need to get some ordered, soon...

PS - This thread is starting to smell like ambergris. ;)

[stickman]

Reading on the website, they permanantly stick, is there anyone using a technique to test, before finally making the move.

[stickman]

I think you guys are fishin for a laugh...

[Brady Watson]

Hey 'Chum'...Yes...I have used packing tape and carpet tape to 'test' a substrate before permanently mounting them. Trust me...you'll be sticking them all over the place so removable tape makes a lot of sense. I like the carpet tape on the face because if you strap packing tape over the back and have too much pressure on it, it affects sound quality.

It's not hard to get 'hooked' on these things! There's something 'a boat' the look on people's faces when they hear sound emitting from a cardboard box! It's pretty funny!

-B

[bill.young]

Jay,

I use 3 small (1/2" square or so) pieces of double-stick carpet tape to temporarily hold them in place. You don't want to use too much tape...the disc part is cardboard and it's hard to remove them without mangling the disc if there's too much tape.

[billp]

Boy do I wish I was more proficient in Photoshop...I had this flash of inspiration to do an image in which I combined multiple pictures to do a workup of "the Humpback of Notre Dame", but I couldn't quite get the helmet to fit.....
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[danhamm]

Hey..Gerald, I'm not a "puffer" more like a hostage on a whaler's "poopdeck..butt comin clean here...I'm outa my class..D

[Brady Watson]

Bill ~ LOL!

[jumbaugh]

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Bill P.... You all be careful now!

[gerald_d]

Jonah Palumbo was not that tasty, he got spat out....

[gerald_d]

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[jhicks]

Very interesting!!! Leave it to Bill Young to fuel new fires with such a cool idea. I have been thinking about a related idea so if anyone can help, maybe these two go together. Lots of $ being spent on high end home theater installs. One thing they do is place acoustic foam panels on the walls to balance the sound and eliminate deflection. From what I've seen these are plain jane fabric covered panels. Not very asthetic and HO Hum for an expensive sound room.
So I was considering a carved shape as a potential product to add some decorative appeal and functionality but haven't found out what or where to get this acoustic foam or if its something that machines well.
This thread seems to be an exciting idea pointed in a similar direction so I'm just putting it out there and asking if anyone else has explored this or knows about the "acoustic foam". I see I can buy some foam from dealers but can not determine yet what it is, its properties, or who makes it.
Guess I now need to check out sound Pods.
Always something fun on the forum. Happy Thanksgiving

[gerald_d]

MDF acoustic panels (http://hanson.en.alibaba.com/group/50022252/Acoustic_Panel.html) are often covered with cloth/hessian.

[bill.young]

Hey Jerry,

The folks at Parts Express (http://www.partsexpress.com/) sell all kinds of speaker building supplies.

Bill

[gene_marshall]

I see what jerry is saying.
And have been thinking along those lines as well.
The MDF panels that Gerald pointed out are UGLY.(No offence Gerald)
I find that these options limit the design and some good alternatives would be welcome.
But the best thing would be to carve a solid panel and maybe veneer the surface to match the wood of the cab.
Or... as jerry is eluding too, a carved panel design in solid wood that doubles as the side panel/speaker.
That, I feel, is going to make this product a hit.

Imagine (cabinet guys) that that monster entertainment center no longer needing those ugly speaker grills. The speakers are integral with the end panels, kick panel, moldings, false doors, or cornices.

I thought this at the Jersey camp...Awesome product, great potential.

Now, back to Jerry's question.
Bill Youngs presentation showed quite clearly that ANY foam will do the trick ( It seemed the cheaper the better)
A non pourous product dulls the sound, or so I remember.
I wonder how a finish on a veneer sheet will work.

Gene

[ron brown]

Gene,

I have been told some folks are actually building speaker cones of wood veneers. They are 'tuning' these cones by sanding.

I've always thought a sharp fellow could build a guitar tuning program and after the guitar is assembled, strung and tested the first time could be reshaped for best sound on a CNC machine.

The soundpads and a CNC machine could do a lot of interesting things.

[gerald_d]

Gene, I wasn't promoting those panels. Just wanted to show that behind those "cloth" panels are often something we can easily make on our bots. We once made $2000 worth of these in 3 days - the acoustic engineer who designed the pattern was very impressed.

[jhicks]

Gene, Right on with artistic sound panels but my original thoughts on the foam acoustic panels were NOT Speakers but absorbtion panels. Seems to me both could use some artistic creativity on such expensive sound and video rooms.
Would that be a Whaling wall?
Those fabric covered grills and foam panels are pretty boring.
I'll check out Bills & Gerald sites.Thanks

[beacon14]

I just received my Sounpad speakers and there is no evidence of peel-and-stick adhesive???? They are attached to a 4" diameter cardboard disc but the disc has no adhesive and there was none in the package.

Does it matter what adhesive I use? Do I need to send these back or can I use my own double sided tape? I have both the foam type and the thinner transfer type.

Thanks

[bill.young]

Hey David,

There should be a peel-off piece of paper on the face of the cardboard disc. It's the same color as the cardboard and very thin so it's not very obvious that it peels off, but it should be there...if not I'd send them back.

Bill

[jay]

Well, thanks Bill, there is a very thin piece of brown paper on the side of the cardboard away from the speaker.

I originally thought that we were to peal the three white little feet off the white part of the cardboard and stick them on to the foam. I am glad I had not done that. I wonder if I would get a better sound without the cardboard?

I don't know about the other guys but I am having trouble getting an real volume out of these little devils. When I hook them up to my amplifier I barely get half the volume of my regular speakers. What am I doing wrong?
Any one else found that these speakers seem to need a lot of power to drive them?

What has been your experience?

Cheers, Jay

[billp]

Jay,
A lot really has to do with the substrate you attach them to. I am getting my "best" sound so far out of the white "popcorn" type of styrofoam, about 1" thick. I have tried the Sound Pads on just about anything in my shop which isn't moving, and the results are pretty surprising. Even moving the pads around on the same piece of material will change the tones.
Their efficiency is really affected by the way they are attached to an object as well. I have been "testing" them on so many different items that I haven't dared to peel off the protective coating yet. I use double sided tape on BOTH the pads, AND the item to be used as the resonant "cone".
To get added bass sounds I have found that placing the "speaker"over the top of a plastic trash can (as though it were a lid) really adds depth to the sounds produced. While this might not be a very practical solution in many cases (you'll now be able to recognize Shopbotters; they are the guys with plastic trash cans in the back seat of their cars singing away....), it just emphasizes the unique range of possibilities with the pads.
I have also tried to blow out a pair by cranking my shop receiver up to full volume. It is only a 50 watt per channel unit, but the pads can handle all I can pump into them (so far..). I do NOT recommend that anyone else try this unless you have some spares in reserve, I bought ten pair for testing/xmas gifts...
I'm in the process of trying to "port" a few units this weekend. I remember that we used to be able to "tune" speaker cabinets by adding tubes, which could change the frequencies produced by a speaker enclosure. Since the pads are not enclosed this could just be one of those "R & D" experiments, but that's also part of the fun of using them.
And there might be the possibility that they are 'out of phase'? Make sure your wires are connected the same way for both left and right channels. I seem to remember that efficiency could be affected by that as well...I know that there is little documentation on their usage, but the old "red/hot" adage has seemed to work for me...
I've heard of some pretty unique results so far; including empty beer cartons.
I'm really looking forward to see just WHERE this all goes between now and the Jamboree , I think it's going to be a good test of our ingenuity...

[jay]

Thanks, Bill. I did think of the out of phase possibility. I like you have been considering the tuned speaker cabinets, my son and I used to build speaker cabinets years ago at Speakers Kits and Crossovers. I looked for some of the old computer design files in my old disks only to find I do not have a computer that will read the original floppy disks.

Yes we used to tune the speaker boxes with PVC pipe and acoustics insulation. Although the many many boxes of my kids stuff is still stored here in the garage, the one thing I can't find is the Db meter we use to use for tuning. Oh well.

[beacon14]

Duh, I had to look pretty close but sure enough the brown backing paper is cut so cleanly to the brown cardboard that it eluded my initial examination. See the thread titled "I'm an idiot" for more info.

Thanks Bill