Copyright

[john_hartman]

I potentially have a very unique project to take on for a very large company. It evolves transforming a conference room into a Dr. Seuss theme. I asked the question about copyright and licensing issues and got this response:

"I checked & our mgmt said to move forward since it is all internal & we
aren't "selling" anything."

I'm not sure this answer is good enough for me. They may not be selling anything, but I would be getting paid. Does anyone have any experience with this?

[carlhopkins]

My money would be on infringement I would be very carful as it sounds like you are.

On a slightly different note I worked for a large trade show company. Our drawings had a huge note that stated very plainly that they belonged to our company. We had a customer that was taking business to another and demanded all drawings paper and electronic. I got more heat for telling the sales rep “no way” you would have thought I had slapped him along with his wife and kids. At the end of the day we gave them up but I was not making that decision in that direction.

Also many clients can be hard to deal with even when it comes to the use of logos and PMS colors of them.
Stand your ground and be sure. Carl

[tmerrill]

John,

I would not take this job if I were you.

Tell the company you will require a letter from their attorney or legal department stating what they told you and a second letter from their management stating they assume all responsibily and will cover 100% of any and all costs should there be a legal issue. Then see if they still stand by what they said.

I know it's hard to turn away paying jobs but sometimes you have to do what is right because it is right, not because you probably won't get caught.

Just my opinion.

Tim

[magic]

If it was for personal use it would be allowed but because the company will benefit, in some way, it probably would be considered infringement.'

The line is crossed when someone makes money. They would be using this room to gain a benefit, therefore would be prospering.

If you personally wanted to make an expensive watch - an exact copy of a famous watch, and wear it, You are allowed to make on,e according to the patent laws, as I understand them.

[henrik_o]

That answer should indeed not be good enough for you.

A cursory search indicates that the trademarks and copyrights are owned by Dr. Seuss Enterprises, L.P.

That holding company doesn't seem adverse to litigation, either. They have sued major corporations like Penguin Books, in that case for a parodical work that used language themed from Seuss.

Without knowing the exact circumstances, it does look like the proposed job is a clear infringement, and the owner has a history of litigation.

My 2 cents, anyway.

Edit: to be more clear, the company asking you to bid *might* be in the clear since they don't benefit financially from a conference room that's Seuss-themed. But the problem is that you do, since you make money selling it to them. You are the one who is going to get sued if there is litigation. Their answer basically amounts to "it's not a problem for *us*" -- and that's not good enough for you.

[tmerrill]

I would invite anyone to write this company, Harley-Davidson and Disney (to name a few) and ask them if you can make something with one of their copyrighted images as long as you don't make money on it. I think I know what their response would be. Legally, money does not have to change hands. In this case, the company's value increases by having this new conference room and they will benefit from it - or why else do it. And if they are going to benefit from it, rest assured that Dr. Seuss will feel that they should benefit also.

I have heard many people say you can make something for your own use, but have yet had anyone quote the law where this is spelled out. If someone can do it now, I would be interested. I am always turning requests down from family and friends.

Here is another way to look at it. Disney, for example, licenses all their images to companies who make products, sell them, and continue to pay Disney for the right to do this. You take a Disney image and make something for your child's room. Yes, it is for personal use and you didn't make a penny, but you took from Disney and its licensed companies the right to profit from that image. So, you have in fact deprived Disney from money by not purchasing a licensed item with that image on it. Will Disney come after you? Probably not, they are going to concentrate on those who are making a profit with their images illegally. But if they did chose to come after you, you would most likely be left broke from legal fees.

Recall a few years ago when people were downloading music from the internet. I worked with a few of them whose attitude was the record companies wouldn't waste their time coming after the little guy. Well, the record companies did go after the big guys, but threw a few little fish in there to so they could send a message. And I think they succeeded.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now and get back into the shop - less chance of getting into trouble!

Tim

[khaos]

This does not mean that you cant license the rights to do the job from Seuss inc. I had a deal with Disney and warner bros when i did some airbrushing in the past. Simply call and ask what it would cost. Then you are doing your own due diligence.

[rcnewcomb]

Their web site indicated that they keep pretty tight control:
Dr Seuss Art (http://www.drseussart.com/faq.html)

You might see if they could commission something from Dasch (Dhttp://www.daschstudio.com/gallery.php?cat=drawings&page=0) which would provide a similar look and feel without the copyright issues.

[landdesign]

john, the letter in fact will be just about worthless in the end. the Dr Seuss corp will sue everyone and you will still have to defend yourself. as for "who will know".... all it will take is a small blurp in the evening news to let the cat out of the hat and you in hot water. I have done a lot of copyright work in most company's are ready and willing to sell you a right to cut for a fee. their worry is will it look good for their image, and can we make a buck?... in my state its a 50,000 fine per incident. the local College got a 600.000 fine for trying to say it was for educational purpose... they now have a person the deals will it for a lot less.

I know it is really hard to even think about saying no, but proceed carefully

Erik

[tmerrill]

John,

I think it's great you're putting thought into this. The amount of money is significant enough for you to examine your options as to how you can proceed.

My sentence that you quote was offered more as the challenge we have all grown up with: When something sounds too good, get it in writing. I'm pretty sure the company would think twice if you made a request like that in more refined terms, but it may make them take the need to observe the law a little more seriously.

I agree with Eric. Once the lawyers get involved, everyone will be a target.

If I were you, I would gently explain to the company that you need to observe all copyright issues, and after reviewing the information provided in all the links above, you have concerns. Ask them if they are willing to approach the Dr. Seuss company for permission, or will they allow you to.

If they don't want to proceed with a little more regard for the law, then money aside, you probably don't want to do business with them.

Tim

[rb99]

But do they actually sue the sign maker or do they sue the business with the sign?

If it where me, I might go ahead and do it, but get something in writing that says they are responsible for securing the proper permission to make it. If they say they have the permission, and say it in writing, I don't think the sign maker is the one who gets sued but you never know. It is a risk I would take though.

[mitch_prest]

John
in your first post.. the company said" we are not selling anything".. and that is very true for them.

but...

you are.. and unless you have a licence to sell products with the Dr's images, then it is going to end up back in your court. As far as I know buying copyrighted material is not a problem .. its the selling of it that bothers people.
And is would appear you are planning to do the selling...

m

[daski]

what does your lawyer say?????

[john_l]

No way I would take it. This is sticky stuff. I do know folks that got busted for reproducing Harley, Corvette, and Disney images.

In these cases, as far as I know, it was handled pretty mildly. They were not sued but had to stop immediately and also, in one case, a fella had to forfeit an inventory of Corvette branded products he had made up costing him thousands.

They didnt come after their customers, they came after the ones doing the reproducing.

I would run fast from this one unless you see a letter of authorization, signed by someone from the actual image owner.

Best of luck.

[john_hartman]

Thanks, everyone for the advise. I expressed my concerns and they were very well received. They will be purchasing licensing rights to use Dr. Seuss images. If this deal actually goes down I'll be sure to post a follow-up.

[wberminio]

Thanks for bringing this up,John
It was very informative and eye opening

[tmerrill]

John,

I agree with Erminio and commend you for raising the question and working toward a solution instead of just seeing the dollar signs and plowing ahead.

Tim

[bcondon]

John,

you improved your position with the company as being someone that wants to to the job correctly and will find that you will get the business instead of the guy down the street that could care less. There is always something great about a vendor or contractor that will protect their and MY interests.

A company that you probably does not care about other's legal rights is probably a company you do not want to work with...