Paint help

[coach]

I am spraying aquarium stands. We are using black enamel with HVLP sprayer. The paint sprays well but finish results vary. Some areas are dull and others are shiny. I started making these as unfinished but the store wants me to finish them. I would like to keep this gig so I figured this forum saves me all the time.
I bet there are some really good painters around here.
Thanks,David





7942
7943

[rb99]

Are you priming the wood before painting?

RIB

[cabnet636]

laquer or enamel

gloss laquer will dry at varying stages in this heat and a retarder may be needed, i would do it in satin. looks great and hides defects well!!

jim

[nat_wheatley]

It does look like a primer coat would give you a more even absorbtion/sheen.

I think I'd go ith primer, then flat black, and bring the sheen in with a final, clear coat.

I'm not a 'really good painter' but those would be my suggestions.

[dakers]

It could be a number of things, not knowing what you have there it is hard to really diagnose but here are some things we have had problems with.
we do not spray wood so there are people on this forum who know what to recommend for wood.
we mostly have sprayed aluminum but i will post this anyway
1. trapped solvents from heavy coats
2. wrong solvent
3. distance spray tip from stands
4. type of paint related to other issues in spray equipment
5. not enough time between coats for coat under neath to flash off
6 wrong primer/sealer or primer not dry or not enough primer
7. other environmental conditions during drying period.
8. may need a retarder or paint may need to be a different consistancy.


There is probably alot more issues too like ventilation drying top of paint film before solvents escape.

usually you can google the type paint you are using and see what they recommend you do to spray various things and the primer to use and all the other requirements for the spray tip size, etc.
seems complicated to follow all the rules and complicated if you don't. Sometimes we just get lucky.

We like to spray two component polyurethane because it dries fast (dust) but must have spray booth for that. Others like lacquer.

We usually try to study what the paint manufacturer recommends. they all seem so different.
We use mostly automotive type paints. the people who sell us the paint are very knowledgeable on what to recommend too.


One thing to do that makes life easier is to shoot a egg shell or semi gloss enamel if that is ok. then you do not have to worry about imperfections

[cabnet636]

we shoot black laquer primer by nanochem but we have used mlc, valspar etc. we have always stayed brand specific with our finishes. after the primer is shot and smoothed we topcoat with laquer in the desired sheen, preferably satin

jim

[coach]

James,,,,,it is enamel.
Richard and Nat,,I was afraid an answer like you gave was coming. More work, more material and no more money. The trouble is time and space. Prime 10 sheets, wait for them to dry....making sawdust is a problem.
The enamel I am using is fast dry. Is there a satin available in fast dry? I don't get the whole painted black on oak. I suggested less expensive wood but it seems black oak is a very big seller.
David

[wberminio]

Dave
Try spraying flat black latex enamel,after it dries- sand and give a coat of wax.

It gives a soft matte finish.Fast and easy.
I don't even prime.

Erminio

[ken_rychlik]

David. try shooting black lacquer. It will dry before you can go take a drink of water. Then shoot a coat of clear lacquer (I use pre-cat) It also dries very quick.

If it is oil based enamel and you are stuck on using it, add some automotive paint hardener. It makes it dry fast and you can handle it faster as well.

You may also give them pricing both ways, with and without paint, or see what a local painter would charge to just do them for you.

Kenneth

[ken_rychlik]

Try shooting black lacquer. It will dry before you can go take a drink of water. Then shoot a coat of clear lacquer (I use pre-cat) It also dries very quick.

If it is oil based enamel and you are stuck on using it, add some automotive paint hardener. It makes it dry fast and you can handle it faster as well.

You may also give them pricing both ways, with and without paint, or see what a local painter would charge to just do them for you.

Kenneth

[joe]

David,

I'm sorry you are having problems with the finish. Perhaps you aren't too far from finished though.

When spraying gloss or semi-gloss enamel over un-primed wood you may end up with an uneven finish. To solve the problem, I'd suggest you scotch brite or lightly sand with 240P sandpaper. Next give the piece a couple of light coats of shellac. It will dry quickly and seal off the surface. Another light scuffin with scotchbrite and you are ready for your finish coat.

Keep in mind, the flatter the sheen, the less imperfections like dust will show. At this point you can use enamel or latex.

Watch out for spraying lacquer over enamel. It can bubble and kraze.

Keep us posted on your progress.
Good Luck

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[carlhopkins]

My advice is if gloss can be avoided, do so. But sanding is the first key for any good finish, be very methodical, sand to a fine grit as Joe has said. I have been doing some painted stuff lately most times I do stained.
Depending on the wood try ot sell them on an EBONY stain, looks like your piece is oak.
Note that I got a purple look on Ash and Maple looked rather nasty.
I did samples in red oak and cherry in ebony stain, looks real sharp, it lets a small amount of the wood color through and goes deep into the grain where paint does not get very easy.
I use FUHR all waterborne and love it! I have done some black distressed and some in just black.
I think for plain black I would use the FUHR 9200 for primer and top coat. Try it you should love the ease of use, clean up and dry time is impressive. my 2cents Carl

[erniek]

Here's another off the wall idea for black oak.
Spray it with a black NGR stain. Then clear coat.
I've done this with maple and it looks like black paint. NGR stains dry almost instantly and there's no wiping. You should be able to find a fast dring clear top coat from all the other suggestions here.

[hastings]

David:

I have done a number of painted finishes on wood. Unfortunately black gloss is one of the most difficult because it will show every blemish in the wood and any unevenness in the finish itself.

I have used Sherwin Williams CAB acrylic lacquer with some success. It needs priming, probably two coats with sanding between and you will need to fill any blemishes.

The other is to use automotive paint. Spray two or three coats of primer surfacer, then the base coat and finally one or two coats of clear.

Neither of these are cheap or easy solutions, but if the customer wants it to look like a Steinway, then you are going to have to spend some effort. It's an easy job to underestimate.

[wberminio]

For those who are having with drying finishes-
Try bathing your spray gun cup in hot water to heat the finish some before spraying.I found this method works well for speeding up drying time.


Erminio

[dray]

Dull spots are from paint soaking in

1. Use a laquer based sealer
2. sand w 220
3. use a laquer based sealer
4. sand w 220
5. paint

[GlenP]

I noticed you said you used a "fast dry" black paint. I think your paint is flashing while you are painting and then the over spray from your gun is creating a haze giving you the dull spots. I use black lacquer and when gloss is required we do a "wet on wet" technique. Once you have the one coat of black on we go back and hit it with a another coat, but this is lacquer not paint. It may be too much for paint but you should try some testing. If space is the issue and like me a smaller shop and not dedicated finish area then try find a cabinet shop or finishing shop to do it for you. Even though it is money out the door it doesn't tie your shop up from working, unless you have the time. Go to this website www.woodweb.com (http://www.woodweb.com) and look up finishing techniques. The guys on there are all just like us and very helpful. I'll bet you feel like me when a finish is not going right ....(why is it everytime I try to do something simple it kicks me in the butt and costs me a fortune) oh learning curve eh! Good luck keep us posted.

[joe]

Now I'm confused!

Poor David, what's he going to do? There are more methods posted here than I've ever heard of and I've been doing this most of my life.

I better hang it up. I'm loosing my touch.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[ken_rychlik]

Joe,
Most of us have been there. You want a fast, cheap, easy, durable, nice looking finish. (ya right)

Getting away from the high gloss will be the most helpfull as far as hiding problems. If drying speed is most important issue, lacquer products do that.

As far as cost go, the enamel David is using is probably more expensive than lacquer.

As far as them wanting the units finished for the same price as unfinished, I don't see that happening. Give them two prices and they get to choose.

The biggest thing I have learned is to do samples from start to finish of whatever finish you are working with. Then you catch the uh oh moments before they are on your project.

Take care.

Kenneth