Box making advice needed

[myxpykalix]

I want to make a jewelry/musical box but the 2 books i have are more for bandsaw cut type boxes or 1/4" plywood musical boxes.

Someone here posted a picture of a box then had to make 8 more and that was kind of what i was thinking about but had no info on the deminsions.

If anyone has any advice on the best size or plans i'd appreciate talking to someone who has made some boxes.

If anyone has a good source for musical movements that they have dealt with i'd appreciate a link.

Initially i had thought of making the sides with boxjoints but my vague recollection of these boxes were that it was joined differently because of its shape.

[dlcw]

Jack,

Here are some pictures of some boxes I've made in the past. I've not had much call for boxes recently. A couple of them are music boxes, one is a card collectors storage box and the last one is a box I made to display brochures and business cards.


7986


7987


7988

Don,
www.dlwoodworks.com (http://www.dlwoodworks.com)

[myxpykalix]

Don,
some questions.
What are the deminsions on these boxes?
How do you connect the four sides to the bottom? Just glue or have some other method?
Looks like you have some applied inlay strips or is that individual pieces?

[navigator7]

Jack,
I think
Michael Schnorr makes boxes.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=mikeacg-users

@ Don,
Sweet!
And what does the inside look like?
As stunning as the outside?

[mikeacg]

Jack,

What kind of boxes are you thinking of? I'm full of free advice today!
I mostly use the Bot to make irregular shaped boxes but if I am doing right-angled corners, I usually just use a glue-joint corner (it's fast and clean) as opposed to the fancier joints (like dovetails). For example, I'm currently working on a coffin box for Barbie dolls for a place up in Wisconsin and they are mostly concerned about their cost so fancy corners are out. If your box is going to be a keepsake item, you may want to trick it out a bit but I've found that they will be just as impressed by a carved box as they would be by a plain box with a fancy corner.

This is the kind of stuff I do mostly:


7989

Mike

[navigator7]

Mike,
Can you "Supersize"TM the fries only and just a regular coke?

Geez dude....that is slick! Where does the box open?
The burger looks like a carborundum pad...what is it really?

Love it!

[myxpykalix]

Micheal, now that is slick, it makes me hungry and i bet it would be "tuff eatin"!

What i was thinking about (but not dead set on) was a square box. The only issue i have with your style box is the last 5 or 6 i've tried of oval type box with 1/4" or 3/8" thick wall when i get down to about the last pass something happens, it vibrates and shatters.

If i went with some type of oval or odd shaped box do you have any links to plans or advice for how to cut it or hold down to keep a thin walled box from shattering?

For example do you cut the outside wall or inside first? What wall thickness is best?

[knight_toolworks]

Here is the trick to hollowing boxes. I figured this out when trying to add humps on the sides so I could screw plates to the bottom.
so here is the secret. if you tell anyone I will KILLL you.
ok do a profile toolpath on the inside to the full depth. I use a 1/2" depth of cut at 1 ips. then do a pocket cut I tend to do it with a large stepover for the most part and a fine one full depth for the final pass.
but you need to watch out as the splinters can get jammed up in the dc. doing it crossgrain works better.
I have gotten sidewalls up to 2.75" deep less then 1/4" thick.
if your cutting the box out on the outside it would be best to do the outside first. I usually cut the boxes to size first. I have done these out of soft maple to purpleheart to glued up plywood and mdf.
this is not the most elaborate one now there is a hump in the middle of the back the only want to get that is to profile first. you may be able to do a raster pocket with a the outside cut first.



7990

[knight_toolworks]

here is a thin faced box. less then 1/4" and the box is 3" tall.


7991

[seana]

ummmmmm Steve, Jack told me how you got the thin walls on your boxes.



Yea, childish and OT. Sorry

Sean

[mikeacg]

Chuck,

The bun comes off!


7992

I do the texture on the walnut or black oak patty with a Turbocarver.

Jack,

Most of my boxes tend to be built-up of different kinds of wood so I don't do a lot of deep cutting as a rule. When I do, I always cut the inside first since it is a pocket and involves lots of hogging out material. When I cut the outsides, I leave a thick onionskin (now that's funny!) on the bottom to keep the box stable. I tried tabs but had problems with them breaking. The wood you leave around the bottom is easily cleaned up with the shaper and a bearing bit. Steve's fat corners would certainly help on a square box but I think it might be faster with 4 pieces of mitered wood than cutting them. That might just be my old bad habits talking though! He seems to crank them out pretty quick!

Mike

[knight_toolworks]

love the burger. I can do the big box in about 6 minutes or less. I use a 1/2" bit because of depth but also for speed. softer woods I can do it even faster but I don't usually go any faster.

it's not the best way to make a box of course but it is fast and practical. but it is also a waste of material. but the speed makes up for material cost.

[mikeacg]

Steve,

That is a hard concept for us old woodworkers to grasp! I catch myself doing that all the time. Speed is what makes us money on our machines and yet I keep trying to 'save' wood. For example, I used to cut the bottom side of the bun tops out on the machine, cutting the recess and lip but leaving the top side with square edges since it was on the table side, away from the bit. I then spent all kinds of time shaping the domes by hand. Now I do them two at a time. I cut the bottom of one and the top of another side by side in one board, then flip the board using dowels for registration pins and cut the other side of each lid. Once I started cutting the domed tops on the machine, I suddenly had more time to do other things. I have to keep reminding myself but I think I am gaining on it!

How do you do all the holes in the sides of your boxes? Do you have a jig on the machine to hold them or are you doing them on a drill press? (Wouldn't a 5-axis machine be fun to have!!!!)

Mike

[myxpykalix]

Steve I promise to keep this our secret. Check this diagram to see if i understand you correctly. Proportionally is isn't correct but i think you get the idea.
1) cut the outside diameter first with a raster cut, or does it matter?
2) do a profile cut around inside diameter to final depth.
3)do a pocket cut on the waste left in the center
Am i on the right track?

7993

[knight_toolworks]

yep looks good. I use only downcut bits I get the cleanest cut on solid woods. add for boxes I use a 1/2"
it does hurt on expensive wood. I did a n=bunch of those large boxes with wood that cost me 25.00 a bf. each box when all said and done cost about 25.00 in wood.
all the holes are done with the boxes on edge. with a tall fence. they are all different sizes and they have counter sinks or nut shaped countersinks. the best way is to do the holes before they are hollow it is easier to clamp them in place.

[butch]

Jack
I make fly boxes from .8 or greater boards. I start by doing the edges and a hole for a magnet with 1/8" bit, then hog out the inside, then cut the top and bottom out. I have had some of them blow up, but it was usually a flaw in the wood or the tabs broke and it popped out.
I have built couple hundred of these and only lose one every 20 or so I make. I have built them out of maple, curly maple, birdseye, purple heart, blood wood, oak, pine, cherry, walnut and a few others.
Butch
7994

[myxpykalix]

Isn't a little tough to catch flys with that size box?

seriously tho that looks like a 2 sided toolpath for inside and outside? What size is that box? I like that.

[mikeacg]

I tried the profile, then pocket cut method last night and it really worked great! Thanks for teaching this old dog a new trick!!

Butch,

Great looking box! What kind of hinges do you use?

Mike

[butch]

Well - put a little honey in the corner....sneak up and ...SLAM THE LID SHUT!..need to wear $300 waders, $200 fly vest with $1000 of flys and stuff and carry a $500 9ft stick. Lots of fun though. Some people go in $10,000 boats to get them to the best fly spots.

I'll send you the Vista file. It won't post.

Mike - they are 8mm SOSS hinges. Work pretty well, although I have had a few come apart. http://www.cshardware.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT

Butch
7995
7996

[mikeacg]

Great link, Butch! I'll have to get some and try them out...

Mike

[therechris]

What bits are you guys using to get that depth and thin of walls? I saw it was 1/2" but what length or specific bit? I'm lucky to get 1 1/2 with the bit I have. thanks

[knight_toolworks]

I use centurion's longest 1/2" downcut bit. the bit is long enough that I can get 3" of cut depth even though the bit only has 1.5" depth of cut it works well.